Why are so few willing to discuss the science?

[Je suis Omar]

Poochy ...

From your screed, Rue, I saved the one thing that came the closest to you discussing science.

Congratulations.

Why do you think so many are so reluctant to discuss the science?

[Derek 2.0]

Yep...that one...for which your summary is consistent with the updated (2011) NIST report.

The fires in WTC 7 were quite different from the fires in the WTC towers. Since WTC 7 was not doused with thousands of gallons of jet fuel, large areas of any floor were not ignited simultaneously as they were in the WTC towers. Instead, separate fires in WTC 7 broke out on different floors, most notably on Floors 7 to 9 and 11 to 13. The WTC 7 fires were similar to building contents fires that have occurred in several tall buildings where the automatic sprinklers did not function or were not present.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.cfm

I'm shocked I say..... that a building left to burn for 8+ hours, without fire suppression nor intervention from fire fighters, damaged by several large buildings next to it collapsing, would fail in such a way

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm shocked I say..... that a building left to burn for 8+ hours, without fire suppression nor intervention from fire fighters, damaged by several large buildings next to it collapsing, would fail in such a way

What is more shocking is the way Truthers ignore the penthouse level roof collapse before the WTC7 walls come down. The building's core was gutted with spans and fasteners failing from the fire.

[Je suis Omar]

I'm shocked I say..... that a building left to burn for 8+ hours, without fire suppression nor intervention from fire fighters, damaged by several large buildings next to it collapsing, would fail in such a way

Your claims to being a scientist are obviously bogus, Derek. You should be shocked. Buildings that suffer asymmetric damage, with small, widely spaced fires, do not collapse. History has clearly shown us that.

And a collapse at free fall speed. Such utter nonsense!

Office fires cannot create temperatures hot enough to create molten steel. I guess it's just good ole American exceptionalism that they can get three steel framed buildings to collapse on one day when there has has never ever been such a collapse before, (despite what the renowned scientist, Bush_Cheney2004 says).

For Derek and the other meme chuckers, don't see the pictures at the following site,

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm

For those interested in science, see the above.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

I'm shocked I say..... damaged by several large buildings next to it collapsing, would fail in such a way

"several large buildings next to it collapsing".

Do people who profess to be involved in science typically engage in such careless, misleading language, Derek? This has been you since you first appeared with your "science".

[Derek 2.0]

What is more shocking is the way Truthers ignore the penthouse level roof collapse before the WTC7 walls come down. The building's core was gutted with spans and fasteners failing from the fire.

Exactly, I can't think of a single instance in modern history in which a building of such size, damaged by the collapse of even larger buildings, and left to burn, was able to remain standing.........of course NYC first responders can be forgiven, what with over 400 of them killed with the collapse of the Twins.....

[Je suis Omar]

Exactly, I can't think of a single instance in modern history in which a building of such size, damaged by the collapse of even larger buildings, and left to burn, was able to remain standing.........of course NYC first responders can be forgiven, what with over 400 of them killed with the collapse of the Twins.....

Shameless, Derek the scientist. Here's what real scientists say.

-----------

The official FEMA report states: "The collapse of WTC 7 had a small debris field as the facade was pulled downward, suggesting an internal failure and implosion...

Demolishing the building so that it collapses straight down into its own footprint requires such skill that only a handful of demolition companies in the world will attempt it."

--------------

Kamal S. Obeid, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Berkeley, of Fremont, California, says: "Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition"

Ronald H. Brookman, structural engineer, with a masters degree in Engineering from UC Davis, of Novato California, writes: "Why would all 110 stories drop straight down to the ground in about 10 seconds, pulverizing the contents into dust and ash - twice. Why would all 47 stories of WTC 7 fall straight down to the ground in about seven seconds the same day? It was not struck by any aircraft or engulfed in any fire. An independent investigation is justified for all three collapses including the surviving steel samples and the composition of the dust."

Graham John Inman, structural engineer, of London, England, points out: "WTC 7 Building could not have collapsed as a result of internal fire and external debris. NO plane hit this building. This is the only case of a steel frame building collapsing through fire in the world. The fire on this building was small & localized therefore what is the cause?"

Paul W. Mason, structural engineer, of Melbourne, Australia, argues: "In my view, the chances of the three buildings collapsing symmetrically into their own footprint, at freefall speed, by any other means than by controlled demolition, are so remote that there is no other plausible explanation!"

"In my opinion WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by controlled demolition done by experts" -Hugo Bachmann, Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH and former Chairman of the Department of Structural Dynamics and Earthquake Engineering, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. (source)

----------------

All quotes are from,

http://www2.ae911truth.org/wtc7.php

Edited April 9, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

It truly is amazing how so few are willing to discuss the science.

[GostHacked]

It truly is amazing how so few are willing to discuss the science.

Damn, back already?

[Hydraboss]

----------------

All quotes are from,

http://www2.ae911truth.org/wtc7.php

28 pages, no real science, nothing but "why will you not discuss the science" comments.

Now I see the truth. It was there the whole time and yet I failed to realize it.

Mr. Khadr, how much do you get paid for sending people to the ae911 website and those specific YouTube videos? At what number of views do the advertising rates go up enough to make it worthwhile posting on all of these discussion forums? What AdShare "partner level" are you at with Google/YouTube?

[Je suis Omar]

Still no discussion of the science.

Do you recall giving the following a big thumbs up, GostHacked?

Moonlight Graham: "They must be taught and reminded time and again that they must be critical not just what they read in some Shakespeare play or math problem, but they must be critical of and question every single assumption that they've ever had and ever will come across. To never take anyone's word for anything, and to question everything, be critical of everything until shown logical evidence or reasoning to adequately support or prove it. This will raise citizens who aren't just sheep, who won't be easily tricked by media or government propaganda, but are free thinkers."

Edited April 28, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Hydraboss]

28 pages, no real science, nothing but "why will you not discuss the science" comments.

Now I see the truth. It was there the whole time and yet I failed to realize it.

Mr. Khadr, how much do you get paid for sending people to the ae911 website and those specific YouTube videos? At what number of views do the advertising rates go up enough to make it worthwhile posting on all of these discussion forums? What AdShare "partner level" are you at with Google/YouTube?

Why do so many refuse to discuss the revenue?

[Je suis Omar]

Why do so many refuse to discuss the revenue?

Because the thread is "Why are so few willing to discuss the science?"

I'm going to assume that you do know what science is.

---------------------

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html#faq

How Could Thermite, an Incendiary, Demolish the Towers, When Buildings Are Normally Demolished Using High-Explosive Cutter Charges?

As is obvious from a review of the literature on energetic materials, thermite-based pyrotechnics can be engineered to have explosive power similar to conventional high-explosives while providing greater energy density and much greater stability. Thus, aluminothermic cutter charges similar to the shaped charges used in commercial demolitions are entirely feasible. However, a variety of forms of thermite might be used to demolish a steel-framed skyscraper in a way that uses no cutter charges at all, as in this Hypothetical Blasting Scenario, which posits three types of aluminothermic pyrotechnics: a thermate incendiary coating sprayed onto steelwork, nano-thermite kicker charges placed near steelwork, and thin-film nano-composite high-explosives distributed throughout the building. The strategically applied incendiary coatings, ignited several minutes before the building's take-down, weaken the structure; but obvious failures start only when the kicker charges break key supports, and the thin-film high-explosives begin pulverizing the building from the initial failure zone outward.

[littleguy1]

Conspiracy theories, scientific denial, religious zealotry are all the things that are pushing America backwards. Such a noble and proud nation to be so wrapped in paranoia is astounding. Instead of fearing terrorists or a nuclear Iran, people fear the government taking away their guns. Instead if fearing China manipulating their currency and taking jobs from America people worry about the military seizing power in their states.

Has right wing extremism come so far that common sense can't be used? Global warming and climate change are denied and yet look around the country and weather is so volatile that something must be happening.Look around at the issue of the day and there is still a great divide over police violence and abuse of power. Conservative versus liberal, black versus white, money versus poverty, the divide is vast and the more paranoid people become the worse it becomes.

911 was one of the most tragic events in history. It not only shook America, it shocked the civilized world. Scrutiny of security measures on s global basis is at an all time high and changing on a daily basis. Raising paranoid conspiracy theories only feeds into those elements that are trying to harm us. Until a scientific consensus shows that two planes flying into the trade center complex were not the cause, I will stand by the analysis that has been provided by the people that were there and the resources utilized to investigate and clean up the after math.

[Je suis Omar]

Conspiracy theories, scientific denial, religious zealotry are all the things that are pushing America backwards. Such a noble and proud nation to be so wrapped in paranoia is astounding. Instead of fearing terrorists or a nuclear Iran, people fear the government taking away their guns. Instead if fearing China manipulating their currency and taking jobs from America people worry about the military seizing power in their states.

Has right wing extremism come so far that common sense can't be used? Global warming and climate change are denied and yet look around the country and weather is so volatile that something must be happening.Look around at the issue of the day and there is still a great divide over police violence and abuse of power. Conservative versus liberal, black versus white, money versus poverty, the divide is vast and the more paranoid people become the worse it becomes.

911 was one of the most tragic events in history. It not only shook America, it shocked the civilized world. Scrutiny of security measures on s global basis is at an all time high and changing on a daily basis. Raising paranoid conspiracy theories only feeds into those elements that are trying to harm us. Until a scientific consensus shows that two planes flying into the trade center complex were not the cause, I will stand by the analysis that has been provided by the people that were there and the resources utilized to investigate and clean up the after math.

Noble, nowhere close, LG, proud, most assuredly but a more apt description is incredibly conceited. From your comments it's clear that you really don't know the true history of the USA. It has been a plague on the larger part of this planet's humanity.

From its genocidal beginnings against Native Americans, the USA has hardly paused in bringing death and destruction to the poor of the world.

9/11 doesn't come remotely close to the real tragic events precipitated by the USA. The death toll from USA war crimes and terrorism is orders of magnitude higher than that of 911.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

Littleguy1: Until a scientific consensus shows that two planes flying into the trade center complex were not the cause, I will stand by the analysis that has been provided by the people that were there ... .

The people responsible for determining the collapse of, not two but three buildings were not there. Theirs was a whitewash, designed to support the official conspiracy. It was not science but rather, a coverup.

The coverup started quickly after 9-11. Evidence was destroyed, silly theories, eg. The Pancake theory, were advanced then quickly discarded. But still today, some continue to advance these silly theories.

There is, today, no official explanation for the collapse of WTCs 1&2. There is a scientific explanation, they were blown up.

[On Guard for Thee]

The people responsible for determining the collapse of, not two but three buildings were not there. Theirs was a whitewash, designed to support the official conspiracy. It was not science but rather, a coverup.

The coverup started quickly after 9-11. Evidence was destroyed, silly theories, eg. The Pancake theory, were advanced then quickly discarded. But still today, some continue to advance these silly theories.

There is, today, no official explanation for the collapse of WTCs 1&2. There is a scientific explanation, they were blown up.

Are you still buying into that crap..767, full of fuel, hits building at around 600 mph and explodes. Building falls down. Pancakes. Any demolition expert can explain to you how that works. But I kow you get soe sort of jolly perpetuating bogus conspiracy theories, so you carry on. Ill get the popcorn.

[H10]

I think it was an inside job but who cares. One less reason to go to America, US government murders its own daily, more americans are murded by cops than murdered by terrorist or died in 9/11. Americans don't care about american lives why should we?

[Je suis Omar]

No pancakes, OGFT. That's a lie. The bogus Pancake nonsense was even disavowed by NIST. Do try to keep up to speed.

[Michael Hardner]

There is, today, no official explanation for the collapse of WTCs 1&2. There is a scientific explanation, they were blown up.

Why would somebody blow up buildings that planes were already going to fly into ? That seems needlessly complicated, risky, and pointless. Really, it's a weird and silly idea that doesn't achieve any end at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the conspiracy team to just hijack the planes and crash them ?

[Black Dog]

No pancakes, OGFT. That's a lie. The bogus Pancake nonsense was even disavowed by NIST. Do try to keep up to speed.

The NIST never studied the collapse.

The focus of the Investigation was on the sequence of events from the instant of aircraft impact to the initiation of collapse for each tower. For brevity in this report, this sequence is referred to as the “probable collapse sequence,” although it does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached and collapse became inevitable.

The NIST also attributed the cause of the collapse to the the heat from the fires weakening the columns.

So, as usual, you're dead wrong.

[Je suis Omar]

Why would somebody blow up buildings that planes were already going to fly into ? That seems needlessly complicated, risky, and pointless. Really, it's a weird and silly idea that doesn't achieve any end at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the conspiracy team to just hijack the planes and crash them ?

What we would really like to know, Michael, is why are so few willing to discuss the science?

[Je suis Omar]

The NIST never studied the collapse.

The NIST also attributed the cause of the collapse to the the heat from the fires weakening the columns.

So, as usual, you're dead wrong.

That's probably as thorough a discussion, on the science, from the government conspiracy crew as we have to date seen.

[Je suis Omar]

Are you still buying into that crap..767, full of fuel, hits building at around 600 mph and explodes. Building falls down. Pancakes. Any demolition expert can explain to you how that works. .

Both buildings, WTCs 1&2, were designed for that scenario.

And the buildings didn't fall down, they were blown up. Anyone who looks at the videos can see that.

Demolition experts know that a small portion of a building cannot destroy a much larger portion of a building without added explosives. The huge volumes of concrete, roughly 110 acres, four to five inches thick, cannot be turned into microscopic sized particles without the addition of explosives.

No plane hits WTC 7, yet the building collapses into its footprint at free fall speed for the first seven seconds, as admitted by NIST.

And then Danny Jowenko, a demolition expert, described the collapse of WTC 7 as a controlled demolition.

Molten steel and iron were found in all three buildings when there was no fuel source that legally should have been there to produce said molten iron and steel.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[On Guard for Thee]

Both buildings, WTCs 1&2, were designed for that scenario.

And the buildings didn't fall down, they were blown up. Anyone who looks at the videos can see that.

Demolition experts know that a small portion of a building cannot destroy a much larger portion of a building without added explosives. The huge volumes of concrete, roughly 110 acres, four to five inches thick, cannot be turned into microscopic sized particles without the addition of explosives.

No plane hits WTC 7, yet the building collapses into its footprint at free fall speed for the first seven seconds, as admitted by NIST.

And then Danny Jowenko, a demolition expert, described the collapse of WTC 7 as a controlled demolition.

Molten steel and iron were found in all three buildings when there was no fuel source that legally should have been there to produce said molten iron and steel.

No they werent designed for that scenario. Planes within a TRSA are limited to 250 knots. Of course the hijackers may have ignored certain air regulations as they hurtled toward Allah.