Derek 2.0 Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Dropping yes, but still far ahead of the rest of the developed countries. And that relates to a proposed Quebec registry how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 And that relates to a proposed Quebec registry how? Maybe they feel they dont want to challenge those stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) There are a couple of facts criminal stats have shown in regards to patterns of probability: 1-a gun registry will not stop any mad man using any kind of weapon-there is no evidence registering guns reduces crimes where someone is mentally ill and uses a weapon; 2-there are not enough statistics to say definitively whether gun registries in force, directly lower crimes with guns, by restricting access to guns or simply the fear of being caught by registering them; ( -I would welcome any of you who have info on that because its at the very pith and substance of this debate on the usefulness of gun registry); 3-hand gun access is not limited in Canada by registry, the majority of hand gun related crimes are with unregistered weapons and in fact stolen hand gun; In urban areas, I personally believe no one needs weapons unless they are storing them at gun clubs and using them at target ranges or say at skeet clubs. As for recreational as opposed to necessity hunters, people who hunt for fun not necessity, I think hunting associations and the various provincial governments already do the best job of monitoring them and they work together for to assure safety and try screen out the drunk idiots. I don't like sport hunting but I respect sport hunters who respect their gun and hunting clubs, treat their weapons and sport with respect and eat their food which respectful sport hunters do I can't stand weekend drunks but I do not think they represent true hunters and they are alradyproperly regulated. As for necessity hunters who live in rural areas,their rifle is a necessity and I appreciate their frustrations with government papper work, If it's about handguns I don't think anyone should have them unless they agree to keep them locked up at hand gun ranges. That is the only place they belong. I have met few people who learn how to properly use one and would know how to use one if their life was threatened. Rifles I believe are a privilege not an inalienable right, and how far you regulate them I do not know. I think we have to distinguish between the different factors of hand guns and military weapons no one should have as they are only meant to kill, with hunting rifles domestic and necessity hunters use and put them in separate categories one outlawed the other regulated. Surely there is a way to do this without being too full of paper work but protects police or assists them. One point made to me which was valid is we tend to mix up the need to register guns with not being allowed to have them. If hand guns are not allowed, there is no need for registering them. Its only when you allow ownership of guns you then have to ask, how do we regulate their use and storage and its impossible not to regulate guns. They are a dangerous weapon. Handguns or target ranges belong in storage in those clubs registered and monitored by those clubs. Rifles you can register through the store that sells them for rural necessity hunters, and sport hunters are alreadylicensed and regulated by provincial governments and their hunting associations and if you want to be a sport hunter you blooy well join a spirts association and learn from them how to use and store your weapon. I am one of those people who believe non profit associations and retailers of guns when given the chance do a better job of implementing certain regulations than government. I hate guns. I respect necessity hunters and properly disciplined and regulated sport hunters. Call me naive but I think hunting associations and store owners can register and monitor guns as good as any government body. A rifle to a necessity hunter is a like a chain saw. They know damn well if they are drunk and use one they could bleed to death before anyone finds them. I am not so worried about necessity hunters in rural areas. Their mentality with rifles is a completely different head space. They don't glorify them-its a way to eat and deal with a possibly diseased animal attacking them.If you live in a rural area, distemper, rabies, they happen. You have to put down things that are diseased or break into your enclosures. Most rural people can get fed up with coyotes or sometimes wolves or hybrid coywolves and fishers,bears,weasels, skunks,racoons, but they aren't hateful of them. It's just a fact of life and sometimes you have to shoot them or shoot in their direction to warn them off. What I am concerned about are stupid punks in cities with illegal hand guns and drunk occasional recreational hunters. I am just not sure registering all guns through the government is the best way to do control them. Anyways I am in the middle on this as I said favouring business and associations doing any of the registration.. As an aside, its a luxury in this country not to have to carry one.I cherish this country for providing a place I can live and not fear terrorism or crime like in other countries in the world and not to have to carry a gun for that reason. Edited March 28, 2015 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Rifles I believe are a privilege not an inalienable right, and how far you regulate them I do not know. Anyways I am in the middle on this as I said favouring business and associations doing any of the registration.. As an aside, its a luxury in this country not to have to carry one.I cherish this country for providing a place I can live and not fear terrorism or crime like in other countries in the world and not to have to carry a gun for that reason. I read your entire post....and though I disagreed with some of the philosophy I can say it was reasonable and logical....please continue to post in this manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Maybe they feel they dont want to challenge those stats. Why would they? Like the United States, in Canada gun related homicides (and homicides in general) have also been dropping, with the first year after scrapping the LGR reaching a near 40 year low: Firearm-related homicides were down, but fatal stabbings increased. There were 131 homicides tied to guns in 2013, down 41 from 2012. This was the lowest rate of firearm-related homicide since comparable data became available in 1974. So despite the demise of the LGR, Canadian streets didn't run red with the blood of shooting victims.......furthermore: Most gun-related homicides were committed with handguns, a trend that has held over the last 20 years. Despite this, the rate of handgun-related homicides reached its lowest point since 1998. This too despite restricted firearms still being registered in Canada, pre and post Long Gun registry.......but of course, most crime gun are smuggled into Canada: For example, in 2011, the CBSA seized 673 guns at ports of entry such as land border crossings, airports, ports and mail centres. By comparison, police seized 33,727 firearms that year, according to Canadian Firearms Program statistics. Many of these illegal firearms are believed to have come from outside the country. So the vast majority of the ~200 annual firearms related deaths in Canada are from handguns, smuggled across the border.........and some think the Province of Quebec should spend millions of dollars that they don't have on creating a long gun registry...... It would seem the logical response would be for the various levels of Government in Canada, if ~200 annual deaths are considered a major problem, to increase funding for the CBSA to combat smugglers and to policing agencies to further shutdown the black market of illegal firearms in the major cities. Not piss money away on a segment of the population (legal gun owners) that aren't the problem, through the use of tools that won't address the problem (smuggled handguns from the United States)........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Sure Stop illegal guns at the border. No brainer. But lets not leave it at that, I have previously discussed how easy firearms acquisition was for me in the states. I have no criminal background or intent, but nobody could have known that. How much of the blood that does flow in US streets is caused by legal firearms do you think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Sure Stop illegal guns at the border. No brainer. But lets not leave it at that, I have previously discussed how easy firearms acquisition was for me in the states. I have no criminal background or intent, but nobody could have known that. How much of the blood that does flow in US streets is caused by legal firearms do you think... Did you forget your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Did you forget your point? Not at all, but maybe you didnt get it so Ill explain it more simply: make people jump through at least a few hoops to get guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not at all, but maybe you didnt get it so Ill explain it more simply: make people jump through at least a few hoops to get guns. Only if those hoops actually do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Only if those hoops actually do something. We have more hoops here than in the US, and look at the difference in the gun violence stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 We have more hoops here than in the US, and look at the difference in the gun violence stats. We got rid of the registry and the stats got better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 We got rid of the registry and the stats got better. You actually think those things are connected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 You actually think those things are connected... You do, so why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 You do, so why not? Again not quite clear what you are asking. In any case, the crime rate has been dropping here for decades. It would be quite a stretch to try and conflate that to the LGR being scrapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Again not quite clear what you are asking. In any case, the crime rate has been dropping here for decades. It would be quite a stretch to try and conflate that to the LGR being scrapped. It's also quite a stretch to conflate it with the existence of the registry, given that it was dropping before its creation, and continued dropping after its demise. The US need not be mentioned, as this is not the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 .... The US need not be mentioned, as this is not the US. Indeed, but it is in Canadian DNA to do so. Crime rates are also at 30 year lows in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 It's also quite a stretch to conflate it with the existence of the registry, given that it was dropping before its creation, and continued dropping after its demise. The US need not be mentioned, as this is not the US. The US of course must be mentioned. Its an example of how not to deal with gun laws. Again, look at their laws and then their stats. You may be a Charlton Heston fan, but keep in mind he was in late stage dementia in the MM movie. Sane people should be, well...sane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I don't own a gun, but have a PAL (I passed the test to get an RPAL, but never sent away for it). I'm hardly a gun nut. I'm just waiting for you to inject some facts into your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I don't own a gun, but have a PAL (I passed the test to get an RPAL, but never sent away for it). I'm hardly a gun nut. I'm just waiting for you to inject some facts into your argument. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/ Not hard to find the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/ Not hard to find the facts. That has nothing to do with Canada - nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 That has nothing to do with Canada - nothing. You wanted facts, I posted facts. Sorry they werent the ones you wanted. But it shows the ratio of gun deaths I was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) You wanted facts, I posted facts. Sorry they werent the ones you wanted. But it shows the ratio of gun deaths I was referring to.I think he meant relevant ones to Canada. The US is full of African Americans, you can't compare that crime situation directly to Canada.I don't think we want everyone hitting the bars and getting into fights with concealed firearms in the mix. Having a weapon to defend yourself inside your own home is another matter. Edited March 29, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think he meant relevant ones to Canada. The US is full of African Americans, you can't compare that crime situation directly to Canada. I don't think we want everyone hitting the bars and getting into fights with concealed firearms in the mix. Having a weapon to defend yourself inside your own home is another matter. Well again according to US stats, that gun in the house for protection is more likely to be used in domestic violence, accidental shootings, or suicide. My point is I dot want to see us go down the US road with all this second amendment, Charlton Heston BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well again according to US stats, that gun in the house for protection is more likely to be used in domestic violence, accidental shootings, or suicide. My point is I dot want to see us go down the US road with all this second amendment, Charlton Heston BS. That wasn't even a part of this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 That wasn't even a part of this discussion. Its all about guns isnt it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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