Quebec To Create Its Own Gun Registry

[hitops]

Well again according to US stats, that gun in the house for protection is more likely to be used in domestic violence, accidental shootings, or suicide. My point is I dot want to see us go down the US road with all this second amendment, Charlton Heston BS.

We already have tons of guns in the house, just mostly long guns (not the kind typically used for the incidents you mentioned in the US). The issue not whether you can have a gun, the issue is you cannot use it to defend your person and property in your own home. For example somebody is threatening you with a knife and you shoot them, you will 100% get arrested and face trial, and you hope get aquited.

Your concern about going down the U.S. road is just nonsense political babble. The danger in the US is blacks in black areas. Factor that out, and murder rates in non-black suburbs are lower than most Canadian cities. If you don't bring the African Americans along with brining the guns, you won't get the same violence.

Edited March 29, 2015 by hitops

[On Guard for Thee]

We already have tons of guns in the house, just mostly long guns (not the kind typically used for the incidents you mentioned in the US). The issue not whether you can have a gun, the issue is you cannot use it to defend your person and property in your own home. For example somebody is threatening you with a knife and you shoot them, you will 100% get arrested and face trial, and you hope get aquited.

You are allowed to protect yourself. But unlike the states, you cant shoot a guy who is stealing your tv in Canada.

[poochy]

The type of people who sell firearms illegally tend not to buy them legally, or register them legally.

A piece of paper does not make your firearm inoperable.

People who are likely to commit murder, or mass murder with a firearm are not likely to be concerned about its registered status.

I know of no crime that was prevented (admittedly that is hard to prove) or solved by the old gun registry, it seems that most of the time the murder weapon goes with the murderer, professionals don't leave them behind, and crazy people are usually caught with them, a billion or more dollars could have been used to give police more realistic resources to solve more crimes. The registry was always a political exercise and was never really effective, and the trend in the firearms homicide rate was never affected to any measurable degree, in fact it's dropped faster in the years since the registry was killed, yes i know the two are unrelated. The Dawson college shooting was committed while the registry was in effect, and the shooters firearms were registered, the registry is pointless.

It is truly too much to expect reason from some around here, instead we get arguments like, 'hey, we don't need new laws to prevent terrorism, even when attacks and threats of attacks are rising, all of our laws are juuuust right, but that old gun registry, that was horribly broken, that never appreciably affected the homicide rate by firearm, while spending a billion dollars to target a small fraction of total homicides, while handgun murders, you know those guns that have been registered for 80 years, continued to rise. yea, let us have some more of THAT. Cuz, you know, that WORKS!

I would disagree with this sentiment, but wanting to simply ban all firearms to reduce accidents and firearms homicides would make more sense than registering them, seriously, every pro registry argument has been beaten to death for years, accept it and move on, as an aside more people are beaten to death every year than shot with a long gun. 125 beaten to death in 2011, 30 by rifle or shot gun, 20% vs 5%, 0 would be better, but it's just not realistic. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2012001/article/11738-eng.htm#a16

Edited March 29, 2015 by poochy

[On Guard for Thee]

America is the most heavily armed country in the world, with the highest number of gun related homicides among developed nations, and some of the most relaxed gun laws. Coincidence is it...

[Derek 2.0]

Not at all, but maybe you didnt get it so Ill explain it more simply: make people jump through at least a few hoops to get guns.

In Canada, to legally purchase firearms, the process is more than a few hoops........and the long gun registry was never a hoop in the path to getting guns.

[Derek 2.0]

You wanted facts, I posted facts. Sorry they werent the ones you wanted. But it shows the ratio of gun deaths I was referring to.

I think he wanted you to provide facts that support your opinion that the long gun registry was effective at preventing gun crime.........

[On Guard for Thee]

In Canada, to legally purchase firearms, the process is more than a few hoops........and the long gun registry was never a hoop in the path to getting guns.

It was not meant to be. It just mapped where the guns were. Not a bad bit of info to have if you are a cop on their way to a call about domestic violence for instance.

[Derek 2.0]

I think he meant relevant ones to Canada. The US is full of African Americans, you can't compare that crime situation directly to Canada.

I don't think we want everyone hitting the bars and getting into fights with concealed firearms in the mix. Having a weapon to defend yourself inside your own home is another matter.

That too is a popular myth, up there with road raging CCW holders, for those citizens that actually lawfully carry, going through the entire process through local law enforcement to obtain a CCW permit are far less likely than regular citizens to commit crimes.......as for example the numbers show in gun friendly Texas

[Derek 2.0]

America is the most heavily armed country in the world, with the highest number of gun related homicides among developed nations, and some of the most relaxed gun laws. Coincidence is it...

It is........Mexico has far more stringent gun laws then the United States (or Canada), yet a gun homicide rate over four times that then the United States..........

[On Guard for Thee]

It is........Mexico has far more stringent gun laws then the United States (or Canada), yet a gun homicide rate over four times that then the United States..........

Thats funny you use Mexico as an example of law abiding countries. Run that up the flagpole and see if anybody salutes. We pretty much kow when the cops are on the take laws dont mean a hell of a lot.

[Derek 2.0]

It was not meant to be. It just mapped where the guns were. Not a bad bit of info to have if you are a cop on their way to a call about domestic violence for instance.

No it didn't, as already pointed out, criminals don't register their guns.........likewise, in the late 1970s, the RCMP estimated that there upwards of 16-20 million firearms within Canada (based on domestic production, imports, surplus sales etc), but at the peak of the registry only ~7 million firearms were registered, alongside hair dryers, cordless drills, water guns, electric toothbrushes etc.........The registry was a waste of money.

Likewise, no police officer called to a domestic at a crack house, with no hits on the LGR, would assume there were no weapons on site........

[On Guard for Thee]

No it didn't, as already pointed out, criminals don't register their guns.........likewise, in the late 1970s, the RCMP estimated that there upwards of 16-20 million firearms within Canada (based on domestic production, imports, surplus sales etc), but at the peak of the registry only ~7 million firearms were registered, alongside hair dryers, cordless drills, water guns, electric toothbrushes etc.........The registry was a waste of money.

Likewise, no police officer called to a domestic at a crack house, with no hits on the LGR, would assume there were no weapons on site........

I wonder why then police forces are among the strongest proponents of the registry.

[On Guard for Thee]

I wonder why then police forces are among the strongest proponents of the registry.

What I really dont get, and Im sure it has been mentioned before, but what the hell, why are some people so freaked out about registering the fact they own a gun, and then quite happily go through exactly the same process when they buy a car. Makes no sense, unless they are some sort of NRA whacko.

[Derek 2.0]

Thats funny you use Mexico as an example of law abiding countries. Run that up the flagpole and see if anybody salutes. We pretty much kow when the cops are on the take laws dont mean a hell of a lot.

Why is it funny? Mexico has far more gun control laws, yet far more gun crime......inversely, in New Zealand, the process for legally obtaining automatic firearms, silencers, short/sawed-off shotguns etc is far less restrictive then the United States, and the majority of their police aren't even armed, yet they have little to no gun crime..........likewise areas within the United States like California, Chicago or Washington DC, areas with tough gun control laws (in some cases more restrictive then even Canada), have the most gun homicides within the United States.

This of course is proof that "gun control" (or "gun rights") are not a viable indication of levels of violent (gun) crimes within a geographic location......clearly violent crime is far more a result of social-economic stresses, in addition to access to mental healthcare, then access to guns or gun control laws on the books.

In the near future, with the advent of the 3D-gun, which will negate gun control laws worldwide, this will be more pronounced........as such, if gun-grabbers actually want to reduce gun violence, they should use their resources to address the underlying causes of violent crime and mental health.

[Derek 2.0]

I wonder why then police forces are among the strongest proponents of the registry.

The same reason police forces and security agencies support C-51?

[Derek 2.0]

What I really dont get, and Im sure it has been mentioned before, but what the hell, why are some people so freaked out about registering the fact they own a gun, and then quite happily go through exactly the same process when they buy a car. Makes no sense, unless they are some sort of NRA whacko.

For many, the same reason some people fear C-51 and claim it an invasion of privacy.........of course, based on historic precedent, this view of registries has some credibility.

[On Guard for Thee]

The same reason police forces and security agencies support C-51?

Police forces for the most part could not care less about C 51. They have stated they dont need more power, they need more resources. Harper tries to hand out powers which will in all likelihood be curtailed at the SC level, while he cuts the funding to those who are tasked with the actual work. And meanwhile all Harper can think to do is stand up in QP and make retardedly stupid comments about not worrying about ISIS sueing us if we break international laws. The place is getting stupid.

[On Guard for Thee]

For many, the same reason some people fear C-51 and claim it an invasion of privacy.........of course, based on historic precedent, this view of registries has some credibility.

As I have already said, nobody bitches about registering their vehicle. So whats the problem with doing the same with a gun.

[Derek 2.0]

Police forces for the most part could not care less about C 51. They have stated they dont need more power, they need more resources. Harper tries to hand out powers which will in all likelihood be curtailed at the SC level, while he cuts the funding to those who are tasked with the actual work. And meanwhile all Harper can think to do is stand up in QP and make retardedly stupid comments about not worrying about ISIS sueing us if we break international laws. The place is getting stupid.

Do you have a source? I've yet to hear the RCMP/CBSA/CSIS state they don't need "more powers".

[Derek 2.0]

As I have already said, nobody bitches about registering their vehicle. So whats the problem with doing the same with a gun.

I already told you above.......Whats the problem with C-51? For many, the concern is privacy.

[On Guard for Thee]

I already told you above.......Whats the problem with C-51? For many, the concern is privacy.

No, its much more nuanced than that. If I need a gun for legal reasons, just like I need a car for legal reasons, I dont have a big hangup with letting the gov know. If I want to peacefully protest a logging company clear cutting vancouver island, I could be thrown in jail as a terrorist under 51. Thats a whole lot of nuance dot you think.

[Derek 2.0]

No, its much more nuanced than that. If I need a gun for legal reasons, just like I need a car for legal reasons, I dont have a big hangup with letting the gov know. If I want to peacefully protest a logging company clear cutting vancouver island, I could be thrown in jail as a terrorist under 51. Thats a whole lot of nuance dot you think.

No, not at all........as unlike cars, there are professional lobbies and elements with mainstream political parties that want to ban guns.....a registry is a personal index for such groups.......for most actual gun owners, registering firearms is as much a political hang-up as your protesters hugging trees have with C-51.........

[On Guard for Thee]

No, not at all........as unlike cars, there are professional lobbies and elements with mainstream political parties that want to ban guns.....a registry is a personal index for such groups.......for most actual gun owners, registering firearms is as much a political hang-up as your protesters hugging trees have with C-51.........

No not at all. Having to register ownership of a car, a house, a dog, or a gun has nothing to do with a attempt to ban those things. C 51 seeks to ban my right to hug a tree and label me a terrorist in the process.Huge difference. Luckily people are catching on to that as they become more familiar with it.. Thats why Harper is now backing off.

[Derek 2.0]

No not at all. Having to register ownership of a car, a house, a dog, or a gun has nothing to do with a attempt to ban those things. C 51 seeks to ban my right to hug a tree and label me a terrorist in the process.Huge difference. Luckily people are catching on to that as they become more familiar with it.. Thats why Harper is now backing off.

Yes, it does........the registry is every bit as political, for both sides, pro or anti gun, as the Government reading the emails of eco-terrorists.......even during its short life, the registry was used to confiscate legally purchased firearms from lawful Canadians. Likewise, the usage of gun registries by Governments in the United Kingdom and Australia to confiscate millions of firearms from lawful gun owners due to political action...On the more extreme end, past gun registries were used by despots (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao etc) to attempt to disarm their entire populace.........

But, the long gun registry is now gone, and based on current public party policies, the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP have no intentions of bringing it back.........fore outside the direct political costs (Liberal MP Wayne Easter has stated the previous LGR cost the Liberals upwards of 60 seats), even the most thick headed politician understands that a new registry would have far lower levels of compliance then the last one.....making it even more useless, for no direct benefit.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes, it does........the registry is every bit as political, for both sides, pro or anti gun, as the Government reading the emails of eco-terrorists.......even during its short life, the registry was used to confiscate legally purchased firearms from lawful Canadians. Likewise, the usage of gun registries by Governments in the United Kingdom and Australia to confiscate millions of firearms from lawful gun owners due to political action...On the more extreme end, past gun registries were used by despots (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao etc) to attempt to disarm their entire populace.........

But, the long gun registry is now gone, and based on current public party policies, the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP have no intentions of bringing it back.........fore outside the direct political costs (Liberal MP Wayne Easter has stated the previous LGR cost the Liberals upwards of 60 seats), even the most thick headed politician understands that a new registry would have far lower levels of compliance then the last one.....making it even more useless, for no direct benefit.

Why is it that people who like to won guns are so freaked out at the idea of having to register them. That in itself gives a lot of people concern, as it should. While you think about that, look what Australia's gun laws have done for their gun crimes.