On Guard for Thee Posted March 28, 2015 Report Posted March 28, 2015 I think perhaps its time to change the name of this thread to Overwhelming drop in support for C 51. Current polls have it having gone from 82% to 45%. And not surprisingly, there is a direct correlation between the drop in support and the increase in the number of people who have actually studied it. Ignorance is not always bliss. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 I think perhaps its time to change the name of this thread to Overwhelming drop in support for C 51. Current polls have it having gone from 82% to 45%. And not surprisingly, there is a direct correlation between the drop in support and the increase in the number of people who have actually studied it. Ignorance is not always bliss. A cite/link to this new information would be helpful. Quote Back to Basics
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 A cite/link to this new information would be helpful. Here ya go. https://openmedia.ca/blog/vice-support-plummeting-secret-police-bill-c-51 Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Here ya go. https://openmedia.ca/blog/vice-support-plummeting-secret-police-bill-c-51 I thought so. Your desperation to believe something won't make it so. You posted that farce a couple of weeks ago. It was discredited then - and it's no more accurate now. Linking to the actual forum poll - as I showed you previously - the President of Forum - Lorne Bozinoff - summarized the results of the poll as follows: It is clear that, now the immediate rush of anxiety over the October 22 attacks is over, Canadians are slightly less likely to see the need to alter the country’s security protocols. And that, my Harper-hating little friend, shows how your source "The Voice" - has the same shallow agenda as you do. Edited March 29, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) I thought so. Your desperation to believe something won't make it so. You posted that farce a couple of weeks ago. It was discredited then - and it's no more accurate now. Linking to the actual forum poll - as I showed you previously - the President of Forum - Lorne Bozinoff - summarized the results of the poll as follows: And that, my Harper-hating little friend, shows how your source "The Voice" - has the same shallow agenda as you do. That's as ridiculous as when you posted it the first time.Post the data. Less support now for stiffer terrorism legislation One half of those aware of it disapprove of Bill C51 Read more at: http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51/ Copyright ©Forum Research Inc. Edited March 29, 2015 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) anti-terror-bill-c-51-to-be-changed-as-tories-respond-to-criticism- That section will be changed to narrow the scope of what might be captured as a terrorist-related activity, he said. The word "lawful" will be removed so that protesters engaging in civil disobedience will not be detained as 'terrorists'. The government will also put forward an amendment to make it clear that CSIS agents would not have the power to arrest people. This changes nothing. CSIS can still 'detain' and interrogate people for 7 days without charges/arrest. Other government-backed changes in the works include limits to information-sharing and adjusting a provision that would have given the public safety minister the power to direct air carriers to do "anything"... ... Thus far there is no indication the government will heed the calls for increased oversight. The Tories could, however, introduce separate legislation ... Edited March 29, 2015 by jacee Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 anti-terror-bill-c-51-to-be-changed-as-tories-respond-to-criticism- That section will be changed to narrow the scope of what might be captured as a terrorist-related activity, he said. The government will also put forward an amendment to make it clear that CSIS agents would not have the power to arrest people. Other government-backed changes in the works include limits to information-sharing and adjusting a provision that would have given the public safety minister the power to direct air carriers to do "anything"... ... Thus far there is no indication the government will heed the calls for increased oversight. The Tories could, however, introduce separate legislation ... Not sure what your point is? Are you agreeing that the committee process is working as the government said it would. It seems that your own pet peeve about lawful protests has been addressed. Seems like a good start on amendments. As for oversight, if there are to be changes, they probably would best be served in separate legislation as they would tend to be quite complex and should require a good deal of reflection before changing what has worked reasonably well for decades. Quote Back to Basics
Bob Macadoo Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Not sure what your point is? Are you agreeing that the committee process is working as the government said it would. It seems that your own pet peeve about lawful protests has been addressed. Seems like a good start on amendments. As for oversight, if there are to be changes, they probably would best be served in separate legislation as they would tend to be quite complex and should require a good deal of reflection before changing what has worked reasonably well for decades. Why.....speedy....thoughtlessness worked for this complex legislation? Quote
drummindiver Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 You'l get hit by lightning before you get killed in a terror attack. A lightning strike would be an act of God. Oh, wait, so would... sorry if this has been said already. Quote
drummindiver Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Diversity of tactics. Once again: Doesn't terrorism have to CAUSE TERROR in the public? BTW ... The whaling has stopped. . Diversity of tactics. Defending violence again, are we? Quote
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 You might as well just make a law requiring muslims to wear an armband. He asks what part you object to and you introduce this into the conversation? Holy tinfoil cap, batman! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Looks like the overwhelming support once touted is slipping as people actually catch on to what it is. http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51 You mean as the paranoid loony brigade continues to shriek and wail and gnash their teeth all over the internet and media? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Apparently there is some adjustment to that, but of course still no talk of oversight. John Ivison has pretty good connections with the Tories, and he wrote in his last column that they don't trust the opposition not to exploit any secrets they are given. There is just not enough trust between the government and the opposition parties — and the NDP and Liberals have to accept their share of the blame for that. Just this week, we have seen the opposition parties leak the details of a closed-door briefing on Iraq given to MPs by Mark Gwozdecky, director of the Middle East bureau at the Department of Foreign Affairs. The briefing note, which suggested “the best weapon against [the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham] is good governance and inclusiveness,” was used as a stick to beat the Harper government’s strategy of using only “hard tools.” http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/27/john-ivison-leaks-opposition-antics-c51/ Edited March 29, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Something to bear in mind as we guard ourselves against big brother, and frantically hide all our communication behind complicated encryption. The only people who really benefit are those who actually have something to hide. A European police chief says the sophisticated online communications are the biggest problem for security agencies tackling terrorism. Hidden areas of the internet and encrypted communications make it harder to monitor terror suspects, warns Europol's Rob Wainwright. Mr Wainwright said that in most current investigations the use of encrypted communications was found to be central to the way terrorists operated. "It's become perhaps the biggest problem for the police and the security service authorities in dealing with the threats from terrorism," he explained. "It's changed the very nature of counter-terrorist work from one that has been traditionally reliant on having good monitoring capability of communications to one that essentially doesn't provide that anymore." Gee, thanks, Snowdon. Good job! http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32087919 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I thought so. Your desperation to believe something won't make it so. You posted that farce a couple of weeks ago. It was discredited then - and it's no more accurate now. Linking to the actual forum poll - as I showed you previously - the President of Forum - Lorne Bozinoff - summarized the results of the poll as follows: And that, my Harper-hating little friend, shows how your source "The Voice" - has the same shallow agenda as you do. Pretty typical, my little kool aid loving friend, of someone shooting the messenger simply because they dot like the message. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 You mean as the paranoid loony brigade continues to shriek and wail and gnash their teeth all over the internet and media? Interesting term. Any explanation... Quote
eyeball Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 You mean as the paranoid loony brigade continues to shriek and wail and gnash their teeth all over the internet and media? This is a far better description of the people who imagine there's a Muslim extremist under every bed and who want the government to do something about it. You in other words. You've just described yourself to a Tee. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 This is a far better description of the people who imagine there's a Muslim extremist under every bed and who want the government to do something about it. You in other words. You've just described yourself to a Tee. Ah, no. I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the new law, other than to see that it wasn't any big deal. Likewise, I haven't really given a damn about the possibility CSIS or the NSA or whomever might be able to skim my emails to see what I'm chatting about. No, I've been pretty blase about the whole thing. You, on the other hand, have been posting as if your hair was on fire for some time now. I bet you post through proxy servers and determinedly encrypt every single one of your emails, with their breathless contents of video game tips and cafe invitations, lest the government be reading them. You paranoid freaks with your desperate fear of government monitoring are the best friends terrorists ever had. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 You paranoid freaks with your desperate fear of government monitoring are the best friends terrorists ever had. Yeah, I guess so. According to conventional wisdom I probably am a Jihadist. I started becoming paranoid about the state we're descending into way back when we when started our descent years ago. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
drummindiver Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I got hit with off target thread jacking for referencing warrant less entry allowedby the Liberals by untrained, well, anybody. This is the type of concern many of the ppl on this thread are concerned about, so it is totally relevant to this discussion. Charles Anthony allows the incredible crap posted by many, but warns an on topic postI call BS. Talk about censorship. Quote
Argus Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah, I guess so. According to conventional wisdom I probably am a Jihadist. I started becoming paranoid about the state we're descending into way back when we when started our descent years ago. And yet the state still doesn't give a damn what you say or do. How... confusing... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 And yet the state still doesn't give a damn what you say or do. How... confusing... How do you explain the cameras out on deck that watch me landing fish when I'm at work or the aircraft checking on my proximity to wildlife and looking for oil slicks in my wake? Of course the state gives a damn what you do. How...oblivious... Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hudson Jones Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Polls... Here is the latest - Couldn't find a previous post where it was mentioned that the support for the reckless Secret Police Bill C-51 is plummeting. - Mostly because people are learning more about it: Support for the Conservative government's anti-terror bill has dropped dramatically over the past month, a new poll suggests. According to a Forum Research poll released Tuesday, 45% of Canadians approve of Bill C-51 after it's explained to them. Without being told any details of the bill, 38% said they approve. That's a stark drop from February, when an Angus Reid poll found that 82% of Canadians were on board with the bill, which would grant law enforcement broad powers to "disrupt" suspected threats to national security Edited March 31, 2015 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Bob Macadoo Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Polls... Here is the latest - Couldn't find a previous post where it was mentioned It's been mentioned multiple times..... Quote
Je suis Omar Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I beat it daily and yet I just can't understand why that dog keeps attacking me. Out the window goes yet another long held cherished belief - Canadians aren't as ignorant as Americans. "Support for the Conservative government's anti-terror bill has dropped dramatically over the past month, a new poll suggests." Maybe there is a glimmer of hope. Edited March 31, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
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