ReeferMadness Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 That is a pretty big leap, especially given the nature of the "assaults". Yeah, I'm sure it was just a random coincidence that after Harper stirred up all the anti-Islam sentiment, these assaults occurred. Why the scare quotes? You don't consider them assault? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah, I'm sure it was just a random coincidence that after Harper stirred up all the anti-Islam sentiment, these assaults occurred. There is of course another (more likely) possibility. The media is reporting on these two incidents because of the national debate currently happening on the issue. If that weren't the case, I guarantee you would never have heard of them. Why the scare quotes? You don't consider them assault? I don't consider being elbowed an assault, no. Quote
a10khan Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Glad that Harper and his conmen brought the niqab issue to the fore at election time. I'd rather have these issues discussed than get swept under the carpet. Also, exposes the double standards of some, and the fair-mindedness of others. Forcing a woman to unveil herself when she has already identified herself clearly demonstrates the official's bias to begin with. She never had any trouble with identifying herself for any government screening or for security reasons at the airport. The larger question of whether women should be allowed the niqab or not should not even be a question in a society that upholds social freedom and human rights. Far from being oppressed, most women who don the niqab do so out of choice. Nor do they represent all that is "backward", as seen by the recent assault on on the Muslim woman in Fairvew Mall, Toronto. She is a convert, a fitness trainer and proud of her identity. The Conservatives have succeeded thus far in dividing the electorate on a non-issue that hardly affects 0.01% of Muslim-Canadian women. If people fall for this, than they'd have no one to blame when state tramples on other civil liberties enjoyed by all Canadians, in niqab or otherwise. Quote
eyeball Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 So....talk about fear mongering. Ok let's talk about that, Harper has not provided a single example of a woman who wants to wear a niqab when working in the civil service but we need a law to prevent it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Ok let's talk about that, Harper has not provided a single example of a woman who wants to wear a niqab when working in the civil service but we need a law to prevent it. It's actually very clever - he didn't say that we needed a law or that he'd bring one in. Quote
eyeball Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, he made it perfectly clear as usual. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dialamah Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 There is of course another (more likely) possibility. The media is reporting on these two incidents because of the national debate currently happening on the issue. If that weren't the case, I guarantee you would never have heard of them. I don't consider being elbowed an assault, no. If I were deliberately elbowed by a stranger, I would consider it an assault. I bet you would too. Especially if it were your daughters who were elbowed. And I bet you'd be a lot less forgiving if a couple of kids knocked over your pregnant wife or daughter, especially if it was combined with ripping off an article of her clothing. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 If I were deliberately elbowed by a stranger, I would consider it an assault. That requires a lot of presupposing on everyone's part though. We don't really know what happened. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Posted October 8, 2015 Opposition and media fear mongering. Uh, what? There's only 1 national party stoking bigoted sentiments against Muslims and now two women have been attacked because of it. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Posted October 8, 2015 I don't consider being elbowed an assault, no. If some thugs ripped your fiancée's shirt off in public so she was left standing there in her bra, after elbowing her no less, would you consider it assault? Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 If some thugs ripped your fiancée's shirt off in public so she was left standing there in her bra, after elbowing her no less, would you consider it assault? I thought those were two separate incidents? Perhaps I read it wrong? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I mean, does it really matter? People aggressively put their hands on these women. That's not appropriate and it's obviously fuelled by the rhetoric in the news lately. But it's not like these are the only incidents. It has happened in the past too. It's completely unethical and in fact disgusting that anyone would fuel these sentiments for political gain. Edited October 8, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 So you're OK with Harper stirring up anti Muslim sentiment that has resulted in women being assaulted? Actually, it's Mulcair, Trudeau, and the media which have been stirring up anti-Muslim sentiment. And there's zero evidence anything the Conservatives have done has resulted in anyone being assaulted. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 He may not have intended it, but now that it has happened he should have the decency to dial back the rhetoric. What rhetoric? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Posted October 8, 2015 I can really see how denouncing anti-Muslim rhetoric is stirring up anti-Muslim sentiments. What a ridiculous argument. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 I can really see how denouncing anti-Muslim rhetoric is stirring up anti-Muslim sentiments. What a ridiculous argument. That's Argus for you. Somehow the Liberals and NDP are responsible for the Tories' invoking niqabs. Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 "only" 2 assaults. How many would you have preferred? Do you seriously think a couple of 14 year old boys listened to Harper and this caused them to yank at a woman's headscarf as they were pedaling by? I mean, seriously!? What are you smoking anyway? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Do you seriously think a couple of 14 year old boys listened to Harper and this caused them to yank at a woman's headscarf as they were pedaling by? I mean, seriously!? What are you smoking anyway? While correlation does not imply causation, I think basically using niqabs (and frankly, using that as a proxy for Muslims in general) creates an environment of fear, and the first people to give in to fear are kids and morons. Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 That's Argus for you. Somehow the Liberals and NDP are responsible for the Tories' invoking niqabs. All the Tories did was appeal a court decision. That would be a brief, one column story on page sixteen. Instead every media outlet in the country has been screaming about it for two weeks, with daily updates from Mulcair and Trudeau on how indignant and outraged they are. This was made into a big issue by the progressives, not by Harper. The only time Harper mentions it is when reporters ask him about it, which they do at every possible opportunity. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 All the Tories did was appeal a court decision. That would be a brief, one column story on page sixteen. Instead every media outlet in the country has been screaming about it for two weeks, with daily updates from Mulcair and Trudeau on how indignant and outraged they are. This was made into a big issue by the progressives, not by Harper. The only time Harper mentions it is when reporters ask him about it, which they do at every possible opportunity. Ah, so now it's the media's fault... Do you really think we're idiots, Argus? This is wedge politics at its worst. But you just keep on telling yourself that the entire niqab issue hasn't been manufactured by the Tories. Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 While correlation does not imply causation, I think basically using niqabs (and frankly, using that as a proxy for Muslims in general) creates an environment of fear, and the first people to give in to fear are kids and morons. Do you have any kids? Do you know anything whatever about adolescent boys? Because I guarantee you they aren't watching the news, and don't care about any of it. If they find someone looks weird, for ANY reason, and that includes the goofy looking niqab, that's all the reason they need to bully or mock them, or in this case, grab at a piece of cloth while riding by. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Do you really think we're idiots, Argus? I wouldn't wager on the percentage of you that are idiots but I'd hazard a guess it's an extremely high number. This is wedge politics at its worst. But you just keep on telling yourself that the entire niqab issue hasn't been manufactured by the Tories. No, it was manufactured by the PQ, actually, and then seized upon by the Liberals in Quebec. Edited October 8, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Do you have any kids? Do you know anything whatever about adolescent boys? Because I guarantee you they aren't watching the news, and don't care about any of it. If they find someone looks weird, for ANY reason, and that includes the goofy looking niqab, that's all the reason they need to bully or mock them, or in this case, grab at a piece of cloth while riding by. They don't have to watch the news. They just have to listen to their paranoid and easily startled Conservative parents going "Them freaky Muslims and their weirdo face veils..." Quote
Shady Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 While correlation does not imply causation, I think basically using niqabs (and frankly, using that as a proxy for Muslims in general) creates an environment of fear, and the first people to give in to fear are kids and morons. And I think much of the anti-Chrisitan sentiment from the left might be responsible for the Oregon shooter asking for and killing Christians. Quote
Shady Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 I also think that the anti-semitism from the left stirs up much of the rise in anti-semitic activity. Quote
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