.

[dialamah]

I always wondered how well off are women when they decided to quit having kids and running the home, to work all the time and never have children.

All other things being equal, if that's what they want to do, they're probably pretty happy. If they're doing it because religion/society says they should, probably not so much.

[ReeferMadness]

I know it's difficult for you, but it's important to let go of your tendency to generalize anything that is unfamiliar to you and create an image in your head that doesn't exist.

There is a very small percentage of Muslim women who wear these full coverings. They're mostly from Saudi and Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia? Isn't that the country where Harper is peddling weapons?

[ToadBrother]

Saudi Arabia? Isn't that the country where Harper is peddling weapons?

Shush! Don't go undermining the Tories' talking points with inconvenient facts. All you need to know is the House of Saud good, SAudi immigrants bad.

[PIK]

Harper runs the plant that build these vehicles??

[ToadBrother]

Harper runs the plant that build these vehicles??

His government grants the export permits.

[PIK]

You want 'em barefoot and pregnant, eh?

Women are the only ones that can have children or have you forgotten that important pt.

[PIK]

His government grants the export permits.

So he should pick and choose who gets what. Unless we have a law that says no, I guess harper cant do anything.

[ToadBrother]

So he should pick and choose who gets what. Unless we have a law that says no, I guess harper cant do anything.

When it comes to exporting certain kinds of goods, which armaments and military equipment are certainly in that category, the Federal government has wide latitude in whether those goods should be exported or not. No new legislation is required.

[ReeferMadness]

Do you have any evidence that old stock Canadians are more opposed to the niqab than newcomers?

In my experience, the people who have said the nastiest things about Muslims (and Jews) have all been immigrants. In fact, I've never met a non-Muslim immigrant who approved of Muslims. Go ask a bunch of Hindus what they think of Muslims. Go ask a bunch of Chinese immigrants what they think of the niqab. Methinks your liberal biases are showing.

And yet it seems like it's white people that are doing all of the anti-Muslim politicking. Go figure.

[Argus]

I've read a few things by women who wear the niqab (including Canadian-born women) and this sentiment has never come up but I guess you know what's in their hearts better than anyone else.

Yes, because they're going to write something - in English - defending their position in that way.

[Argus]

And yet it seems like it's white people that are doing all of the anti-Muslim politicking. Go figure.

There are only four political leaders and they are all white. No one is paying any attention to what Sikh or Hindu or Chinese candidates are saying within their communities, much less to what those communities are saying. There's been polling of Canadians, but not specific sub-groups within.

The assumption it's all white people who dislike niqabs is vanishingly small. Racism within ethnic groups against each other is far and away more virulent in Canada than it is among Whites.

[Argus]

I know it's difficult for you, but it's important to let go of your tendency to generalize anything that is unfamiliar to you and create an image in your head that doesn't exist.

There is a very small percentage of Muslim women who wear these full coverings. They're mostly from Saudi and Pakistan.

How did anything you said, as smarmy and smug as it was, contradict anything I said?

[Argus]

The reality is, as Neil Macdonald at the CBC has observed, that the Niquab debate is really a proxy debate for Muslim immigration.

Not all Muslim immigration, but a certain kind of Muslim immigration.

And as far as I'm aware, the Harper government has done nothing to reign in immigration from Muslim countries. Pakistan is still one of our major source countries.

[Argus]

All other things being equal, if that's what they want to do, they're probably pretty happy. If they're doing it because religion/society says they should, probably not so much.

Decisions like this are mostly governed by societal beliefs and economics. Are women working in careers they love better off than stuck at home looking after kids? Unquestionably. What percentage of women is that? Probably similar to men, which is to say, quite small. Most women have traded staying at home looking after the kids (as was the case until the `60s) for unsatisfying, unrewarding jobs like shop clerk, waitress, or barrista.

[Black Dog]

Yes, because they're going to write something - in English - defending their position in that way.

No they wrote-in English- compelling explanations of their personal reasons for choosing this form of dress (often against the wishes of their families and husbands), but sure, it's actually all about rejecting this society and its morals and values even as they seek to join it.

Of course I'm not going to pretend that these women are representative off all the women in Canada who wear the niqab; why, that would be as stupid as assuming they are all forced to wear them by their husbands under pain of violence!

[Argus]

Shush! Don't go undermining the Tories' talking points with inconvenient facts. All you need to know is the House of Saud good, SAudi immigrants bad.

This is pretty lowbrow stuff. Harper didn't 'peddle' weapons to anyone, he merely approved their sale, as anyone else would have done in his place.

The idea we should ban trade with nations which we disapprove of is painfully ignorant and stunningly naive, given almost all nations on this planet violate human rights, by our standards.

[Argus]

Harper runs the plant that build these vehicles??

And apparently he's the sales guy, too. Who knew!?

[Argus]

His government grants the export permits.

Should he ban the sale of goods to China and Russia?

[Argus]

When it comes to exporting certain kinds of goods, which armaments and military equipment are certainly in that category, the Federal government has wide latitude in whether those goods should be exported or not. No new legislation is required.

And can you posit an even halfway sane reason for doing that with Saudi Arabia?

[cybercoma]

For women who are forced to wear a niqab, this decision has taken away her chance to not wear it in public. It only plays into the hands of the oppressor and does nothing to help her.

For women who are forced to wear the niqab, they will be denied the opportunity to become citizens by their oppressors, who will not let them unveil in public.

[Smeelious]

I've always wondered...Where is the moral outrage about Muslim men who can't wear their speedos to the beach?

[Black Dog]

I've always wondered...Where is the moral outrage about Muslim men who can't wear their speedos to the beach?

They can.

[cybercoma]

Can you cite an example of the Charter being "abused" that is relevant to this topic?

Pretty unfair question, considering all 5 judges that have been involved in this case (1 originally, 3 on the FCA, and 1 from the FCA on the stay decision) have all pointed out that the decisions have nothing to do with the Charter.

[WestCoastRunner]

No they wrote-in English- compelling explanations of their personal reasons for choosing this form of dress (often against the wishes of their families and husbands), but sure, it's actually all about rejecting this society and its morals and values even as they seek to join it.

Women that choose to wear the niqab are probably the most conservative and do not accept all the values of Canadian society. They probably reject gay anything, divorce, dating, and accept polygamy, and other restrictions that are imposed on women)

[WestCoastRunner]

For women who are forced to wear the niqab, they will be denied the opportunity to become citizens by their oppressors, who will not let them unveil in public.

This is true.