carepov Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Yes, because if women don't just do what men tell them, then they're just being rebellious and being s*** disturbers... Did you notice that I used the word "some" right at the beginning of my post? Do you agree that some Canadian women wear the niquab to be provocative/rebelious? Edited April 13, 2015 by carepov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) niquab is the new punkMore like the new skinhead regalia. The question I asked before is whether it would be ok for a 'sh** disturber' to wear nazi regalia to the citizenship ceremony and have received a variety of responses. The only response that has logical consistency is the one that says anything goes (including nazi garb). It is a principle that I can support, however, if anyone argues that some clothing can be offensive but just not the niqab then they have no argument against banning the niqab at citizenship ceremonies. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 You think it's a strawman that the niquab is representative of misogyny? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 The question I asked before is whether it would be ok for a 'sh** disturber' to wear nazi regalia to the citizenship ceremony and have received a variety of responses. The only response that has logical consistency is the one that says anything goes (including nazi garb). It is a principle that I can support, however, if anyone argues that some clothing can be offensive but just not the niqab then they have no argument against banning the niqab at citizenship ceremonies. There are at least two important differences between the niquab and the swastika: 1. The niqab is sometimes worn for religious reasons 2. There is a direct link between those wearing the swastika and a mass violation of human rights. You may argue that the niqab represents the violation of women's rights , however women wearing the niqab have never committed mass human rights violations. This is why I support the freedom to wear a niqab and would support a ban of the swastika and KKK hoods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 No That being said, do you find it odd that people who detest misogyny would detest the niquab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) women wearing the niqab have never committed mass human rights violations.Irrelevant semantics. Chances are a suburban "rebel without a cause" never committed mass human rights violations either. The are only wearing it to provoke people which is the argument used by some women wearing the niqab. Yet you would see the swastika banned not because of the person who wears it but because of the symbol it represents. The only differences between a niqab and a swastika is the group of people offended by the symbol differs. If you want to argue that giving offense to a large number of people is sufficient justification for a ban then you cannot argue against a niqab ban if the majority of Canadians are offended by it. Edited April 13, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Do you agree that some Canadian women wear the niquab to be provocative/rebelious? Some people like to drink and drive too. Edited April 13, 2015 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Irrelevant semantics. Why reply at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 That being said, do you find it odd that people who detest misogyny would detest the niquab?No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Irrelevant semantics. Chances are a suburban "rebel without a cause" never committed mass human rights violations either. The are only wearing it to provoke people which is the argument used by some women wearing the niqab. Yet you would see the swastika banned not because of the person who wears it but because of the symbol it represents. The only differences between a niqab and a swastika is the group of people offended by the symbol differs. If you want to argue that giving offense to a large number of people is sufficient justification for a ban then you cannot argue against a niqab ban if the majority of Canadians are offended by it. Luckily cooler heads are smarter than to apply rules based on what some recent poll may say. The plls used to support the C 51 bill a few weeks ago as well. Well we all know that has changed a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 You think it's a strawman that the niquab is representative of misogyny?It certainly is when you represent it as such. You're as phoney as a three dollar bill on this issue no matter which way you approach it. So is Harper for whom this is strictly politics and has bugger all to do with anything beyond appealing for the bigoted vote.If this womans cultural practice is as backward and humiliating as you say then you can count on it only taking a generation, or two at most, before her kids and grandkids leave it behind them. Hopefully this sort of backward dishonesty around public policy will die out too but I expect it'll still be several generations before we evolve that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Luckily cooler heads are smarter than to apply rules based on what some recent poll may say.Then you agree that anything goes: including swastikas and KKK hoods? If not then you are basically arguing for rules based on the polls but only when the polls support your prejudices. Edited April 14, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't know anything about religious garb, nor do I care what it 'represents'. I don't feel that the state needs to engage in thought control over religious people. Agreed. Canada's values include freedom from discrimination and hatred due to religion. It seems there are a few people here who don't subscribe to those Canadian values, and may be happier somewhere else. I wonder why they came here anyway. :/ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Being them all on Tim, let's just ensure the record shows which end of the political spectrum insisted on displaying the best their side has to offer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Then you agree that anything goes: including swastikas and KKK hoods? If not then you are basically arguing for rules based on the polls but only when the polls support your prejudices. Apparently you have comprehension problems. Here it is simply, I dont want laws to be set based on some or other current poll stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Apparently you have comprehension problems. Here it is simply, I dont want laws to be set based on some or other current poll stats.Great: so please explicitly say that you have no problems if people want to show up for the citizenship oath wearing Nazi regalia or KKK hoods. If you can't say that you demonstrate that you don't actually believe what you are saying. Edited April 14, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 That being said, do you find it odd that people who detest misogyny would detest the niquab? Well ... coming from a misogynist, that statement is highly suspect. (Reference ... Any thread on rape or sexual harassment.) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Great: so please explicitly say that you have no problems if people want to show up for the citizenship oath wearing Nazi regalia or KKK hoods. If you can't say that you demonstrate that you don't actually believe what you are saying.The issue is freedom of religion.Those aren't religions TimG. Oops! . Edited April 14, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Great: so please explicitly say that you have no problems if people want to show up for the citizenship oath wearing Nazi regalia or KKK hoods. If you can't say that you demonstrate that you don't actually believe what you are saying. Again, apparently your thinking is not nuanced enough to understand the differences between symbols of hatred and a religious tradition, but truth to tell I really dont care what you show up wearing to take a symbolic only oath. I was at a halloween party once when 2 guys showed up in KKK regalia. A few of your ilk did a little freaking out, most of the rest just laughed. And nobody got burned at the stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Again, apparently your thinking is not nuanced enough to understand the differences between symbols of hatred and a religious traditionSorry. That is nonsense. The swastika is not inherently a symbol of hatred. It is only a symbol of hatred because you have decided it means that. Your objection against the swastika is no different than the objections that other have to the niqab. The fact that you don't agree does not make those objections any less valid. I really dont care what you show up wearing to take a symbolic only oath.Great. Then argue that: anyone should where whatever they want. Don't babble about "religious traditions" or other irrelevant details. In your opinion, anything goes. Edited April 14, 2015 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Sorry. That is nonsense. The swastika is not inherently a symbol of hatred. It is only a symbol of hatred because you have decided it means that. Your objection against the swastika is no different than the objections that other have to the niqab. The fact that you don't agree does not make those objections any less valid. Great. Then argue that: anyone should where whatever they want. Don't babble about "religious traditions" or other irrelevant details. In your opinion, anything goes Anyone should wear what ever they want, pretty much. We do have some rules about public nudity, but once again, IMO thats only some uptight BS from your type of folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 The niqab is cultural, not religious. It stands for everything you progressives claim to hate. I cannot understand how you can support such a symbol of oppression. It's crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 The niqab is cultural, not religious. It stands for everything you progressives claim to hate. I cannot understand how you can support such a symbol of oppression. It's crazy. it is as religious as it is cultural. What I support is a persons right to wear what they want. I am not Muslim so I dont have any niqabs around the house. I do have my grandfathers kilt. Would you deny me the right to don that should I choose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Yet another creepy post. you're the one championing this. Stand behind it. Own it. Or do you change your mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 it is as religious as it is cultural. What I support is a persons right to wear what they want. I am not Muslim so I dont have any niqabs around the house. I do have my grandfathers kilt. Would you deny me the right to don that should I choose... ok so no limits at all on any and all cultural practices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.