Japanese beheadings - the folly of the Trudeau approach

On Guard for Thee · February 2, 2015

This thread needs to be retitled: The Folly of the George Bush/Neocon Approach!

Without regime change theory and propping up corrupt Arab monarchs, there wouldn't be an ISIS in the first place! But, leave it to the right wing idiots, who want to stir up crap all over the world, for demanding more wars, more money for military budgets, and more suppression of our freedoms and surveillance on us!

You nailed it.

eyeball · February 2, 2015

The dogs were never sleeping in the middle east. Sorry, but this can't be pinned in the west.

You know what I'm talking about, quit pretending to be stupid - I know you're not and so do you.

Wilber · February 2, 2015

Pretty sad alright. But still not sad enough to make you wish we'd just left sleeping dogs lay is it? You're just too radicalized for that.

Like I said, pretty sad alright. Pretty sad all around.

Except they weren't sleeping dogs and I ain't the one who is radicalized.

eyeball · February 2, 2015

Oh for the love of Allah.

Waking = interfering...dogs = the radical extremists. Like stirring and hornet's nests, get it yet?

Other analogies i like that also inspires disingenuousness is to compare western interference to a metastasizing agent and radical Jihad as the cancer that grew as a result. And of course who doesn't get the comparisons to diddling, abuse, Shining Beacons, disgust, depravity and dysfunction as analogous to the West's disgusting misbehaviour and the horrible godawful dysfunction that is the result.

Of course I could just refer to the more official terms that apply like root causes and blow back but that only seems to piss you guys off.

Edited February 2, 2015 by eyeball

bush_cheney2004 · February 2, 2015

Oh for the love of Allah.

Waking and stirring = interfering...dogs and hornet's = the radical extremists.

So it's OK to "diddle" as long as there are no extremists "stirred up"...like in...say Serbia or Haiti ?

Edited February 2, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

Wilber · February 2, 2015

You know what I'm talking about, quit pretending to be stupid - I know you're not and so do you.

No I'm not and I don't think you know what you are talking about.

eyeball · February 2, 2015

So root causes...blow back...snap snap snap....there's nothing there?

Bullshit.

Peter F · February 2, 2015

...

Only the lame of mind would deny that ISIS has declared war on the West. Imagine if those Japanese citizens were Canadians! Just try and imagine it......because there's a good chance it will happen.

Just imagine...Canadians get thier heads sawed off. Very easy to do and as you say it will happen. Despite Canadian F-18's and Harpers sword rattling. It will most definately happen under Harper and will most definately happen under Trudeau and most definately happen under anyone else.

Do you actually beleive these head-choppers are actually scared of Harper and the Canadian conservative party?

Keepitsimple · February 2, 2015

Just imagine...Canadians get thier heads sawed off. Very easy to do and as you say it will happen. Despite Canadian F-18's and Harpers sword rattling. It will most definately happen under Harper and will most definately happen under Trudeau and most definately happen under anyone else.

Do you actually beleive these head-choppers are actually scared of Harper and the Canadian conservative party?

Not sure what your point is. My point is that staying out of the fighting will not keep us safe. Some people sniffed when Harper said "the jihadists are at war with the West". It was an accurate statement that has proven itself more than once - but highlighted with the beheading of the two Japanese citizens - citizens of a country that had done nothing but provide huge amounts of humanitarian and developmental aid to the region.

Big Guy · February 2, 2015

Perhaps the referees in hockey have the right approach; When two sides are starting to fight each other, they let them go at it until either there is a clear winner or both are tired - then the referees get involved. They don't take sides and get beat up during the battle.

Let the Shia and Sunnis fight the latest of their thousand year battles and then get involved AFTER there is a winner or both have run out of fighters and armaments.

That is if we even want to get involved in that continuing holy war.

On Guard for Thee · February 2, 2015

Perhaps the referees in hockey have the right approach; When two sides are starting to fight each other, they let them go at it until either there is a clear winner or both are tired - then the referees get involved. They don't take sides and get beat up during the battle.

Let the Shia and Sunnis fight the latest of their thousand year battles and then get involved AFTER there is a winner or both have run out of fighters and armaments.

That is if we even want to get involved in that continuing holy war.

That might work but first we have to get the US to stop rearming them.

PIK · February 2, 2015

I love how certain people igniore history. Right now harper is Churchill, getting ragged on, because he kept saying Nazi's are going to take over Europe and the left laughted, and we have trudeau as lord Halifax ,who in his bid to be PM said he would surrender Europe to the Nazi's. Well if that had happened ,we would be living a different life now. But hey keep it up, keep your head in the sand , to scared to admit what is really happening, harper for another 4-8 yrs.

Peter F · February 2, 2015

Sure Harper forever. But Harper has dick-all to do with ISIS and terrorism....except the only thing he is able to do: Talk the big talk

bush_cheney2004 · February 2, 2015

Sure Harper forever. But Harper has dick-all to do with ISIS and terrorism....except the only thing he is able to do: Talk the big talk

Didn't he bomb Libya ?

Peter F · February 2, 2015

Did he? I never noticed.

overthere · February 2, 2015

Just in time to give Harper a nice boost, which explains why our troops have been ordered to get as close to the front as possible.

Clueless or just hopelessly partisan?

It is hard to tell., so I'll go with 'both'.

Troops from every country involved in the aerial attack on ISIS are close, very close, and have been since before the attacks on ISIS started. They are required to be close to identify and laser-light the targets for Canadian and Allied aircraft. That's how it works. That is the only way to avoid or minimize civilian deaths.

Brits, French, Americans etc all have the same people performing the same function. The only difference is that their politicians refuse to comment on their special forces, because it endangers their lives.

eyeball · February 3, 2015

Clueless or just hopelessly partisan?

It is hard to tell., so I'll go with 'both'.

Are you trying to tell me that conservative Coalition of Fanatic warhacks haven't expressed a desire for an event to galvanize their citizen's resolve to go to war before?

Can the US use force - even go to war - for carefully defined national interests or do we have to have a moral crusade or a galvanizing event like Pearl Harbour?

US National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft

pg 78.

Troops from every country involved in the aerial attack on ISIS are close, very close, and have been since before the attacks on ISIS started. They are required to be close to identify and laser-light the targets for Canadian and Allied aircraft. That's how it works. That is the only way to avoid or minimize civilian deaths.

This is a clear departure from what Harper said would be the case for Canadian troops. His breach of parliamentary privilege in doing so is being investigated

Mr. Harper told the Commons last September that military advisers would be assigned “to advise and to assist” but “not to accompany” Kurdish forces into combat. The Prime Minister also said “Canadian soldiers are not accompanying the Iraqi forces into combat.”

Source

In the meantime our sitting government must have authorized the Dept of Defence to not only report about the firefights but to include all sorts of details about the fights that potentially reveal SF tactics. You seem to be alluding that this information was leaked by someone other than the sitting government which begs the question; if true why hasn't anyone been charged with treason?

poochy · February 3, 2015

Just imagine...Canadians get thier heads sawed off. Very easy to do and as you say it will happen. Despite Canadian F-18's and Harpers sword rattling. It will most definately happen under Harper and will most definately happen under Trudeau and most definately happen under anyone else.

Do you actually beleive these head-choppers are actually scared of Harper and the Canadian conservative party?

They may not be afraid, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be, obviously. Or do you feel that because they are too stupid to be afraid, or that they might kill people anyway, that we should just not bother to try to stop them? Or are you trying to make some other, less obvious point here?

PIK · February 3, 2015

You think some people after a while would be sick and tired of being on the wrong side of history. But don't worry we will protect your right to be ignorant. And maybe not afraid of harper but knowing full well trudeau will cave into them.

Edited February 3, 2015 by PIK

Keepitsimple · February 3, 2015

This is a clear departure from what Harper said would be the case for Canadian troops. His breach of parliamentary privilege in doing so is being investigated

Nothing but parsing of words for opposition whining and media sniping. We have only 69 troops in Iraq and they are - and always have been - under orders not to initiate any combat. For shame - we fired back at the enemy in self-defense - three times! And for shame - this was reported by.......our military!

guyser · February 3, 2015

And maybe not afraid of harper but knowing full well trudeau will cave into them.

Soooooo...................what you are saying is Trudeau will be the next PM.

Ok cool, why the change of mind. Crawl out from under the bed and look at some facts and issues?

eyeball · February 3, 2015

Nothing but parsing of words for opposition whining and media sniping. We have only 69 troops in Iraq and they are - and always have been - under orders not to initiate any combat. For shame - we fired back at the enemy in self-defense - three times! And for shame - this was reported by.......our military!

I know, it's a pile of crap but...wouldn't it be something if the Speaker of the House could just roll his eyes and laugh at the opposition too? I mean, who's the government trying to fool here anyway...ISIS? They're probably as amused at our opposition parties as anyone else.

Edited February 3, 2015 by eyeball

WIP · February 3, 2015

i was listening to Gormley, mostly for the lol's, but he made a comment that many Japanese people actually have the same thought process and are saying because the Prime Minister of Japan has now expressed his support for America and the Iraq War, they feel ISIS may attempt an attack within Japan next.

From what I have heard of the Japanese political scene, this new Prime Minister - Abe, is cut from the same cloth as the rest of the Neocon global fascists! He...like every right wing leader before him...wants to cast off rules imposed after WWII that limited Japan's military rebuilding. Since, he is in good with U.S. and international global policy, he may very well get his wish! I'm sure that the beheadings of two Japanese nationals are being milked for all their worth in this effort.

Also worth noting, that when Abe first came to power...shortly after the Fukushima Meltdowns, his first actions were to impose news and information blackouts and restrict the sales and use of Geiger counters to measure levels of radiation. Shortly after, it was made a crime to issue negative reports on Fukushima, including actual extent of damage and radiation leaks, but also the corruption involving TEPCO executives being shielded from facing charges for criminal negligence.

In the larger picture, it has to be noted that the ISIS phenomena follows a pattern similar to many other groups using terrorist tactics. The primary goal is to cause extreme counter-attacks and extreme reactions from the other side. The anti-democratic state fascists on the other side, have a weird symbiotic relationship with organizations like ISIS: they both feed off each other, and try to kill off all talk of moderation, or anything short of full scale warfare.

It's been said many times before, and it needs to be said again: ISIS would not exist without U.S. foreign policy ventures in Iraq and the Middle East in the first place! For all their talk about Islam and religion, ISIS is stocked with generals and lower ranking officers from Saddam Hussein's Army and Revolutionary Guard elite forces. Bush & co. thought it would be easy to drop a few bombs, march in and take over, and dissolve and disband the Iraqi military and civil government apparatus.

And as we now know full well, much of the former government went underground, and applied their bomb-making skills and other terrorist skills in a rear-guard attack against the U.S./Anglo occupiers. The U.S. put the whole country under the control of a corrupt Shiite clique that continued ethnically cleansing Baghdad and other cities of Sunnis, and monopolizing control over the nation's oil. The first Sunni revolt...which saw the rise of 'Al Qaeda in Iraq' was put down mostly by bribing Sunni warlords to fight against AQI. But, after being shut out from government, the military, and pushed to the economic margins, it's no surprise that an even worse reaction - ISIS, arose and has turned out to be even worse than Al Qaeda. And the rest....like they say...is history! Stop interfering with and trying to seize control of the oil in foreign nations, and it's very unlikely there would be an ISIS problem to begin with!

Now, Canada and ALL western forces...especially the U.S., have to be very careful about who to support in any war against ISIS. Because, not only are the western advisors and policymakers as clueless about local events as ever, but every ally taking money and arms from the west is immediately cast in a cloud of suspicion by the locals! There are enemies of ISIS over there....Kurds, Shias and other minorities, and certainly the majority of Sunnis don't want to be part of ISIS's "caliphate." But, they not only have to deal with a movement that has put the Islamic stamp on the terror and brutality they applied as henchmen for Saddam, they also are well aware of the intentions of Iraq's Shia Government and the goals of foreign oil companies.

So, in the end, I'm going with: get the hell out and let the locals sort things out! And that would have been the natural course of events here long before the situation got this far out of hand; BUT they have oil! And, as we now know: Intervention in civil wars ‘far more likely in oil-rich nations’

Edited February 3, 2015 by WIP

Derek 2.0 · February 3, 2015

From what I have heard of the Japanese political scene, this new Prime Minister - Abe, is cut from the same cloth as the rest of the Neocon global fascists! He...like every right wing leader before him...wants to cast off rules imposed after WWII that limited Japan's military rebuilding. Since, he is in good with U.S. and international global policy, he may very well get his wish! I'm sure that the beheadings of two Japanese nationals are being milked for all their worth in this effort.

That should be no surprise, the right-of-center Liberal Democrat Party has been the predominate governing party in Japan since the end of the Second World War........Necon global fascists conspiracy or a reflection of the (majority) views of most Japanese........whatever fits your narrative I suppose.......