Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[Rue]

The DIFFERENCE between what most understand of what is "Jewish" as opposed to "Christianity", is that there is a usual prerequisite for those who are of Jewish decent to BE self-segregating and specifically selective of their own BASED on GENETIC ANCESTORY! Religions like Christianity are evolved to be universally applicable and why it doesn't receive the same kind of bias. It is about the PRACTICE people witness indirectly, whether fair or not, to which the identity of Jews have as much 'earned' the bias of their PRIDE as a select PEOPLE to which others are bothered about.

Hitler's (or, more accurately, the German National Socialists even prior to his dominance), devised their philosophy on Nationalism primarily because they interpreted the reality of standing for an ideal without the emotional impact of culture/race/identity was futile. This was derived from those like Nietzsche, who though non-religious, argued that humans who ARE most religious and segregate themselves distinctly apart, with themes of hero-worship and pride of their 'own', will ALWAYS steal ANY prominence in realistic power by practice. That is, regardless of one's appeal to logic or 'fairness' of people as a whole, the ones who maintain dominance in power anywhere ARE those who command a strict religious OR cultural bias to favor their own nationality of their ancestry.

So, to be 'fair', the Nazis (and Hitler) actually ADMIRED the Jews and sought to embrace the very qualities they at least believed made them so prominent and powerful, regardless of their relatively small population by contrast. As such, their only intent to utterly destroy the "Eternal Jew" was because they believed their 'eternal' supremacy to survive. AND, this contrasted with what they wanted to embrace of them in an opposing way. They felt that the reason for the economic and social fallout of the Germans was due to the very opposite LACK of National unity that the Jews, even to this day, many embrace.

I disagree with Nationalism in any form, period. It is THIS factor alone which still divides people everywhere. To me, it isn't the "Jewish" nature but a human one. The Jews who embrace the Nationality to the extremes, of which is most prominent to those believing in Zionism and their arrogant belief that they are SUPREME by virtue of some God, is what makes Israel, NOT THE "JEWS" by ancestry, the problem here. Israel is ACTING as the very Nazis they pretend to oppose. The biggest difference is to HOW they are capable of doing it. Hitler tried the 'blunt' or direct approach in his means to formulate Nationalism; Israel's means is to appeal to tactics indirectly by using more subtle approaches to attempt to APPEAR innocent while being covertly AGGRESSIVE and hateful! It is NOT about Judaism nor those of Judaic roots that are naturally at fault....it is to those who EMBRACE themselves with the PRIDE to favor their own, and opposite to those OUTSIDE their segregated communities, to which provides the concern here.

It happens to other groups too who embrace their IDENTITY with similar strength because while it may seem normal to HIGHLY FAVOR some IN-GROUP, the very ACT of advocating and supporting for one's own interest with disrespect of the same for others, IS a form of hidden violence against the OUT-GROUP. If you favor to the extreme some particular child you have, it HAS to be at the expense of some other child you have that you neglect to pay attention to, ignore, or allow to starve to death. AND, when that neglected child in the extremely NON-favored position is isolated and starved by merely being left out of eating at the dinner table, they can only hold out for so long before they react in ways that APPEAR overtly most AGGRESSIVE or most HORRIFIC (a "Terrorist").

This is the same with other issues, like Feminism today, which acts as extreme ADVOCATES who FAVOR attention to Women-only justice AND often at the expense of Men as a whole class. Another, for instance, would be how the GAY community ADVOCATES for pride often stereotyping homosexual extremes that do NOT universally apply to the majority of people.

It is Nationalism which is the most prominent form of abuse and why those who embrace such extremes in the Middle-East are at fault. The Israelis (Zionists, in particular) are the sole fault of the opposing Muslim extremes that exist. And they are reacting with extreme because they are being easily neglected and literally being bullied by the mere power and wealth of the dominant Israeli Jews who dismiss them as mere ants to be stepped on expecting them not to complain!

The compliance of the U.S. is to the clear financial, political, military, and social supports granted to these Israelis by them in such strength in contrast to their own hypocritical declarations of compassion they constitute of their own, at the neglect of outsiders, in a similar way. If you have a neighborhood bully who might naturally be equal to you but have some other neighbor who supplants them with guns over your clubs, you too would be reasonably suspect of the U.S. for their compliance.

Scott Mayers you have made comments that I will now respond to.

You stated:

"The DIFFERENCE between what most understand of what is "Jewish" as opposed to "Christianity", is that there is a usual prerequisite for those who are of Jewish decent to BE self-segregating and specifically selective of their own BASED on GENETIC ANCESTORY!"

You have expressed a personal opinion as to how you think Jewish identity is defined and prefaced it with the words "what most understand". Please speak for yourself. Posing your personal subjective opinion behind others to make it sound more credible is a popular device used by those before they utter a subjective opinion. That's not elephant behaviour its primate behaviour. Its called hiding behind a pack instead of standing for one's beliefs as an individual. Its a primal posturing apes make when they feel endangered-they inflate themselves literally to appear bigger than they are. Please speak for yourself. Don't pose yourself as "what most". You are you and your subjective stereotype you then uttered is what you believe. I don't doubt others do too, but don't pose yourself as a majority. Even if you are, being a majority does not make what you say right.

That said, you uttered a ridiculous ancient Jewish anti semitic stereotype that Jews unlike others are self segregating. Jews are of course no different in retaining Jewish traditions than Irish are of their ancestry or Italians are of their's, etc. The fact you single out Jews when they retain traditions shows you single out the Jewish ethnic group differently then others and apply a different standard-one that says if an Irishman, a Scotsman, an Italian, is proud of their roots and community, you remain silent, but if a Jew does it, its self-segregating. This is just a regurgitation of the anti semitic canard that Jews are klanish.

Give it a rest. Every ethnic group that chooses to retain their ethnic identity is equally as self segregating when they do so. Jews are no different. But hey you cling to that Jews are klannish crap. Now the remaining reference to genetic ancestry complete with bold letters did not make your point and in fact undermined it.

To start with you garble two different concepts. One refers to the fact that ONE way, to determine if someone is a Jew under Jewish law is to look at the lineage through the mother. All ethnicities to determine ethnic identity either look at ancestry through the paternal or maternal lines. Again you make this seem as if only Jews do this. That is patently false. Next its only one of many ways to define what a Jew is but in your stereotype you make it the only way.

In fact there is no one method to define what a Jew is, and it is a method that constantly is changing because its not a rigfd, absolute definition and never was one. Your mind clearly can not grasp being a Jew is not a black and white thing, you either have black skin or you don't. Sorry to burst your rigid construct of what a Jew is but its a lot more difficult than your stereotype and in fact when its defined by Zionism its only defined as nationality not by maternal line. Being Jewish depends on many things. Following the maternal line, is but one method,

I will finish my response next post. I placed all your quotes above so certain posters do not suggest I misquoted what you said when I respond to it.

[Rue]

Mr. Mayer you stated and I quote:

"Hitler's (or, more accurately, the German National Socialists even prior to his dominance), devised their philosophy on Nationalism primarily because they interpreted the reality of standing for an ideal without the emotional impact of culture/race/identity was futile. This was derived from those like Nietzsche, who though non-religious, argued that humans who ARE most religious and segregate themselves distinctly apart, with themes of hero-worship and pride of their 'own', will ALWAYS steal ANY prominence in realistic power by practice. That is, regardless of one's appeal to logic or 'fairness' of people as a whole, the ones who maintain dominance in power anywhere ARE those who command a strict religious OR cultural bias to favor their own nationality of their ancestry."

To start with your assumption Nazism is derived from Nietzsche is not as simplistic as you present it.

Let me quote from this article and refer you to it;

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133p/133p04papers/MKalishNietzNazi046.htm

and suggest what the writer in it said and I quote his words:

"Through censorship and editing, Nietzsche's philosophy had been made ambiguous and incoherent, allowing loose interpretation. This ambiguity prompted Nazi interpreters to choose a context that supported Nazi literature and prophesy."

You will have to do a lot better than simply throwing out a Hitler-Nietzsche connection.

Its not accurate and more to the point, it is not germaine at all to what you think Zionism stands for.

Zionism never defined Jews as a race, let alone a special people or a superior people or a people with special powers or even an ideal people with ideal morals as Nietzsche proposed as examples for discussions on his proposed beliefs as to morality and its origins.

Your attempt to draw in Hitler and Nazism to a discussion about Zionism is another recycled canard that Zionism and Nazism are the same. You can repeat that false analogy directly or indirectly and pose yourself as an expert on nationalism lumping all nationalism as one Nazi-Zionist identical concept but they are not.

The key difference and the false assumption and stereotype you pedal, is that Zionism defines Jews as a race. No Hitler did, we Zionists never did. Hitler bastardized concepts of what he though the Aryan race and races meant, all proven false by science.

He defined Jews as an inferior race, and people like you invert it to suggest we Jews using Zionism define ourselves as a race and not just a race but a superior one. We do not and never have. May I suggest you go find out how Zionists define what a Jew is. It has nothing to do with race. The myth we define ourselves as superior is blatant anti semitic ignorance the same ignorance that stereotypes us as being klannish. It comes from the mistaken ignorance that in our religion we feel we are superior because God chose is.

In fact in the religious story, "chosen" only refers to a promise we are said to have made to God and vice versa. That promise or covenant or pact simply states if we choose to believe in God through a collective of people as opposed to simply doing it on an individual level, God in turn will remember us collectively and not simply as individuals.

That concept has nothing to do with being special, superior or favoured. That false myth that it means we think we are favoured by God was planted by gentiles like you who don't make an effort to find out what our religion actually said or what Zionism actually states.

Zionism is not religious at all. In fact it was created by atheists. It defines Jews as a people united by anti-semitic attacks that have been hurled against us requiring we then create a state as a refuge to escape from that hatred and assure never again can a state be used to exterminate us or persecute us. It has nothing to do with the Bible and in fact rejects the belief of fundamentalist Jewish religion that says until THE messiah returns to save the earth no Jewish state can be created.

Zionism in fact is not based on Jewish religion but contradicts it. Today there are Jews who mix their subjective fundamentalist Jewish religious beliefs with a concept of Zionism and they live on the West Bank, but they are and have always been a minority of Jews let alone Zionists and do not reflect anyone's views but their own.

cont. next post

[Rue]

Scott Mayer you stated and I quote:

"So, to be 'fair', the Nazis (and Hitler) actually ADMIRED the Jews and sought to embrace the very qualities they at least believed made them so prominent and powerful, regardless of their relatively small population by contrast. As such, their only intent to utterly destroy the "Eternal Jew" was because they believed their 'eternal' supremacy to survive. AND, this contrasted with what they wanted to embrace of them in an opposing way. They felt that the reason for the economic and social fallout of the Germans was due to the very opposite LACK of National unity that the Jews, even to this day, many embrace."

Your opinion above is hateful, ignorant and a transparent attempt to revise Nazism to stand for something it never did. It is actually an example of revisionism and attempt to rewrite history.

The absurdity of your comments should be clear but for you to write Nazis admired Jews and embraced their qualities is very disturbing. It shows just how deep your bias and hatred of Jews is in my opinion to be able to twist Nazism to define Jews as admirable people.

It also shows your ignorance as to the origins of and the actual basis in which Jews were defined by Nazis which does not surprise me since you showed in other words that you think these ideas came from Nietzsche.

To start with the Nazi concept of the Aryan race, is a bastardized version of racial theories from many sources other than Nietzsche asserting that Europeans were re the descendants of Indo-Iranian settler of ancient India and ancient Persia.

This belief arises from the subjective opinions of the people who believed the above because they thought certain similarity of European words and words from Indo-Iranian languages appeared close.

In fact not Nietsche but Johann Gottfried Herder argued that the Germanic peoples held close racial connections with the ancient Indians and ancient Persians.

In fact it was Arthur de Gobineau, (French) who said France degenerated because if racial intermixing which was then recycled by Nazis.

It was in fact Houston Stewart Chamberlain not Neitzsche , who argued Christianity originated in Aryan religious tradition and that Jews had usurped the legend from Aryans and this in turn was recycled by the Nazis,.

It was in fact Madison Grant not Nietzsche who created the term "Nordicism" and argued to engage in eugenics to kill off impure people and was then recycled by Hitler.

Now for you to not know all the above is no surprise but for you to suggest Hitler admired Jews is ridiculous. Goebbels made film after film referring to Jews as vermin that needed to be exterminated.

In fact the person who advanced Jews were self segregating and a nation inside a nation as you recycle was not Nietzsche but

Johnn Gottlieb Fichte and based on that Hitler and Nazism felt Jews were vermin within German society threatening its people like rats with their Jewish plague.

In no uncertain terms which can be found today in its old propaganda tapes and thousands of pages of evidence from the Nuremberg trials, Nazismviewed defined Aryans (Germans) as being in racial conflict with Jews, defined as a mixed race people, the and wereidentified as a dangerous enemy of the Aryans. Nazis did not admire Jews, they despised their very essence as a contagious disease.

What possessed you to come on this forum and try re-write that is anyone's guess.

Too see just how blatantly false your representation of the "eternal Jew" is one only need go to:

CLICK HERE FOR VIDEO LINK

Edited February 24, 2016 by Michael Hardner
ADDED VIDEO LINK

[Rue]

I would suggest Mr. Mayer in my final response to you that people ignored you because unlike me they felt no point responding to you.

I have keeping in mind that you probably will say my posts are too long and did not read them. I respond because I believe silence to anti semitism on this board can fan people like you. It also is a loud message not just to you but others who use the pretext of debating Israeli state policies, that if they want to come on this board and do what you have, I will challenge it thoroughly.

Using Israel to spread hatred about Jews has been vividly shown by you and others on this forum and on this and many other threads and in your posts. I also think in your case its deliberate and thought out and intended to insult Jews because of the choice of words used.

You stated:

" The Israelis (Zionists, in particular) are the sole fault of the opposing Muslim extremes that exist."

The above shows where you are at. In your mind Muslim extremism is to be blamed entirely on Israelis. That says it all.

You then justify the above with this further stereotype:

"And they are reacting with extreme because they are being easily neglected and literally being bullied by the mere power and wealth of the dominant Israeli Jews who dismiss them as mere ants to be stepped on expecting them not to complain!"

You've never been to Israel. You've never been on the West Bank or in Gaza but you stereotype and presume to know what all Israelis and Palestinians think and feel. You know neither. You speak for neither.

Now take your elephants and clean up after them.

[On Guard for Thee]

Elected a terrorist group as their government, a terrorist group which promises to destroy Israel, and which attacked Israelis in every way they could, including firing thousands of rockets and missiles across the border.

Well, that's one/your version. There are others such as that it was in fact the IDF who broke a ceasefire which had been in place since Nov. 2012.

[Argus]

Well, that's one/your version.

It's the true version. That's all that matters.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's the true version. That's all that matters.

You where there were you? Funny, others who WERE there have a different story.

[Hoser360]

Your response to my statement "Criticizing Israel is almost a crime and almost certainly taboo. This fact alone is a warning that something is wrong, very wrong."

Riiiight, which is why you hardly ever hear anyone doing so, especially on college campuses.

Well, for one I'm not a student with little or nothing to loose. Moreover, nor am I in a position to not be concerned about the repercussions of being an open critic of Israel. Since you obviously don't know, our government has been trying to do exactly that and even the most passive resistance to Israel is legislated antisemitism (see attached articles from legitimate news organizations).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-cites-hate-crime-laws-when-asked-about-its-zero-tolerance-for-israel-boycotters-1.3067497

http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2015/05/13/harpers-effort-to-criminalize-legitimate-canadian-criticism-of-israel-is-diabolical/

http://canadatalksisraelpalestine.ca/2015/04/19/does-harper-want-to-criminalize-criticism-of-israel-canadian-civil-society-issues-a-warning/

[Hoser360]

It's interesting you use 2014. Why not 2015? Could it be because only 190 people died in the Jewish/Arab conflict in 2015 (most of them combatants) and that doesn't make it sound as 'serious' as you want?

After all, tens of thousands died in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan last year, and you don't give a damn about THEM. Way more people were killed by government forces in Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan and Egypt, but you don't care about them either.

I never suggested that I don't give a damn for the atrocities committed in other countries and for you to even suggest that I believe is your attempt to justify the atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza 2014 and the needless slaughter of so many civilian people and the needles destruction of hole neighborhoods and infrastructure.

Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?

[Argus]

I never suggested that I don't give a damn for the atrocities committed in other countries and for you to even suggest that I believe is your attempt to justify the atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza 2014 and the needless slaughter of so many civilian people and the needles destruction of hole neighborhoods and infrastructure.

Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?

Yup. And if the separate country of Quebec was firing rockets and missiles across the border into Ottawa I'd be okay with the government blowing up Gatineau building by building if that was what it took to get them to stop.

[Argus]

You where there were you? Funny, others who WERE there have a different story.

They were a little more biased than me. I have no skin in the game. I just look from afar and make my judgement calls.

[On Guard for Thee]

They were a little more biased than me. I have no skin in the game. I just look from afar and make my judgement calls.

Perhaps being there may make them a lot less biased than you.

[Hoser360]

I asked you "Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?"

Yup. And if the separate country of Quebec was firing rockets and missiles across the border into Ottawa I'd be okay with the government blowing up Gatineau building by building if that was what it took to get them to stop.

Well then you should change your interests because "Peace, Order, and Good Government" is not actually what you believe in. It's seems by your own statements you are more akin to George Orwell's 1984 and "double speak" than your are in peace, for you war means peace, and piece means war. For every child that is killed, for every none combatant that is killed, many more fighters will rise and the only end will be complete destruction of Gaza and all of its people ,and as long as the rest of the world keeps a blind eye to it, and, American keeps funding it. Israel, forever the poor victim! They create their own enemy just to justifying destroying them and everyday, inch by inch they take over greater Israel.

I shudder to think of where this kind of philosophy ends? Will it stop once they have annihilated all of the Palestinians, or, simply keep expanding outwards. What we are seeing is Fascism implemented to perfection perfected.

Oh, and for the record Rue, of the 1500 civilians killed an estimated 500 of them were children, your a real human being.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Hoser360

[Scott Mayers]

Scott Mayers you have made comments that I will now respond to.

You stated:

"The DIFFERENCE between what most understand of what is "Jewish" as opposed to "Christianity", is that there is a usual prerequisite for those who are of Jewish decent to BE self-segregating and specifically selective of their own BASED on GENETIC ANCESTORY!"

You have expressed a personal opinion as to how you think Jewish identity is defined and prefaced it with the words "what most understand". Please speak for yourself. Posing your personal subjective opinion behind others to make it sound more credible is a popular device used by those before they utter a subjective opinion. That's not elephant behaviour its primate behaviour. Its called hiding behind a pack instead of standing for one's beliefs as an individual. Its a primal posturing apes make when they feel endangered-they inflate themselves literally to appear bigger than they are. Please speak for yourself. Don't pose yourself as "what most". You are you and your subjective stereotype you then uttered is what you believe. I don't doubt others do too, but don't pose yourself as a majority. Even if you are, being a majority does not make what you say right.

I ONLY speak for myself even if I was completely alone in my opinion! First off, I am atheist!! So my argument on Christianity here is about their initial philosophical origins. They adopted Judaism to be INCLUSIVE to ALL people rather than to the selective in-group identification that Judaism was founded upon. That is, the "chosen people" were assumed of a genetic variety of peoples, NOT arbitrary choices of people to join in their group. You HAD to be literally related to these intrinsically 'superior' special people to qualify as being Hebrew, as if merely being born of Jewish decent qualified them as favorable.

That said, you uttered a ridiculous ancient Jewish anti semitic stereotype that Jews unlike others are self segregating. Jews are of course no different in retaining Jewish traditions than Irish are of their ancestry or Italians are of their's, etc. The fact you single out Jews when they retain traditions shows you single out the Jewish ethnic group differently then others and apply a different standard-one that says if an Irishman, a Scotsman, an Italian, is proud of their roots and community, you remain silent, but if a Jew does it, its self-segregating. This is just a regurgitation of the anti semitic canard that Jews are klanish.

I made no such assertion nor believe your own interpretation of me.

Let's just merely begin with the word 'anti-semetic' here. Why is 'anti-X' assumed somehow sufficiently evil where 'X' stands only for one type or subgroup of humans? In fact, ONLY if 'X' stands universally for all people (or, as my Elephant example was to demonstrate, ALL living things), does a FAIR interpretation of what is wrong about discrimination count. You can't accuse people of being anti-Semitic if it is alright to be anti-Other and remain non-hypocritical. I used the Elephant's reaction to harm PEOPLE to demonstrate how we as humans arrogantly assume we are somehow intrinsically 'good' and find it ODD that those Elephants are attacking us (like they are

'anti-Humanists') I did this in the second post above to try to show how we can redress the problem by showing that neither Elephants nor Humans have any intrinsic hatred except for where one or the other suffers relatively in some way. The harms that the Elephants do against humans are not intentionally 'evil' nor are the humans. Elephants live in isolation and segregation just as some people OPT to do. Where Elephants HAVE to live in relative segregation, different human groups do NOT. So where they DO voluntarily do so, this to me is the problem, whether it be Jews or other sub-groups of humans.

Give it a rest. Every ethnic group that chooses to retain their ethnic identity is equally as self segregating when they do so. Jews are no different. But hey you cling to that Jews are klannish crap. Now the remaining reference to genetic ancestry complete with bold letters did not make your point and in fact undermined it.

To start with you garble two different concepts. One refers to the fact that ONE way, to determine if someone is a Jew under Jewish law is to look at the lineage through the mother. All ethnicities to determine ethnic identity either look at ancestry through the paternal or maternal lines. Again you make this seem as if only Jews do this. That is patently false. Next its only one of many ways to define what a Jew is but in your stereotype you make it the only way.

Again, you falsely read into me and inversely make false universal declarations. "Ethnicity" IS a function of Nationalistic arrogance to FAVOR those genetically AND culturally. That is, "ethnicity" is NOT just one's selective right to CHOOSE what or how they behave. Those who believe in "ethnicity" believe that one's culture AND genetics are correlated. It is NOT universal that people believe in ethnic definitions, and this is your own arrogant stereotype of ALL people. I also do not think the Jews were nor are the only ones.

In fact there is no one method to define what a Jew is, and it is a method that constantly is changing because its not a rigfd, absolute definition and never was one. Your mind clearly can not grasp being a Jew is not a black and white thing, you either have black skin or you don't. Sorry to burst your rigid construct of what a Jew is but its a lot more difficult than your stereotype and in fact when its defined by Zionism its only defined as nationality not by maternal line. Being Jewish depends on many things. Following the maternal line, is but one method,

I will finish my response next post. I placed all your quotes above so certain posters do not suggest I misquoted what you said when I respond to it.

This is where you or other err in complete stupidity. The term "Jew" originally meant 'wander' and derived from the same root to describe a temporal stream or river that only flows in times of good times but dries up in bad ones [a Wadi]. The original 'Jew' was as much derogatory as it was virtuous and implied those who were transient (homeless or unbound to fixed land-ownership). I could go into quite the historical depths on this. But the reference to which this discussion is about is to the problems of the Middle East to which presently, the Israeli Jew who favors Zionism, are THE cause of all problems there due to their own NATIONALIST beliefs in their supremacy by their God to a 'right' to bulldoze over non-Jews of the territory they are declaring. The irony, however, is to note that "Jew" here references their lack of original landed ownership. (The 'promised land' too, was not Palestine, but Egypt, of which they were migrating peoples from Assyria who overtook Egypt, ruled for a while, then FAILED!) They were also not 'a people'. But NOW those who assert their 'ethnicity' as being Jewish, DO believe in what has come down to us through history as from inherently 'God-favored' beings and IS genetically derived. If this were not the case, Jews would not be predominantly 'Semitic'!!

I am 'anti-Zionist' here with the meaning, "those who believe they ARE a specific people AND who believe they have a universal right by virtue of a supreme command of nature/god, to act with utter arrogance to steal lands occupied by others with equal zeal to violate the Palestinians before them as an 'ethnicity' intrinsically intent to defeat them!"

[Scott Mayers]

Mr. Mayer you stated and I quote:

"Hitler's (or, more accurately, the German National Socialists even prior to his dominance), devised their philosophy on Nationalism primarily because they interpreted the reality of standing for an ideal without the emotional impact of culture/race/identity was futile. This was derived from those like Nietzsche, who though non-religious, argued that humans who ARE most religious and segregate themselves distinctly apart, with themes of hero-worship and pride of their 'own', will ALWAYS steal ANY prominence in realistic power by practice. That is, regardless of one's appeal to logic or 'fairness' of people as a whole, the ones who maintain dominance in power anywhere ARE those who command a strict religious OR cultural bias to favor their own nationality of their ancestry."

To start with your assumption Nazism is derived from Nietzsche is not as simplistic as you present it.

Let me quote from this article and refer you to it;

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133p/133p04papers/MKalishNietzNazi046.htm

I CERTAINLY did NOT quote nor reference anything specific, period. My own background involves much philosophy and I was speaking of what I've gleaned of a broad background. I can't respond to your linked source below without reading but know already that this is likely going to try to dissociate Nazis from ANY source of intellectual evolution. This is done on purpose as its own propaganda to make "Nazis" own 'Nationalism' appear as absurd as possible. The very fact that we historically do not translate the Germans terms to English hide a lot of what is true.

and suggest what the writer in it said and I quote his words:

"Through censorship and editing, Nietzsche's philosophy had been made ambiguous and incoherent, allowing loose interpretation. This ambiguity prompted Nazi interpreters to choose a context that supported Nazi literature and prophesy."

You will have to do a lot better than simply throwing out a Hitler-Nietzsche connection.

Like I said, I didn't link anything. But to this, as I anticipated, you are purposely (or adopting the propaganda our society has passed on) dissociating any reasonable-possible rationale of the Nazis. The DID adopt the culture of their times and the recent influence of those like Nietzsche. It is not 'owned' by Nietzshe any more than Darwin 'owns' others poor interpretations beyond there intended efforts.

The National Socialism was a co-evolutionary ideal that the Communists also originated theirs from: Anarchy,...a belief that some society could exist which requires no management (government) to enforce people's moral conduct. They believed that people either intrinsically have a 'good' nature (and inversely a 'non-evil'one) OR that if the 'good-natured' ones that DO exist should be selected for. These two differences made National Socialism distinctively different to Communism. To Communists, they believed people are intrinsically and naturally 'good' if we just set up the initial environment itself to support it before removing government force. By contrast, the National Socialists did believe in humanity to have 'good' but was selective to ones ethnicity (culture AND genetics combined). Both err in that EACH of us are both 'good' and 'evil' and cannot exist in any time without a management system (government) to assure it.

Darwin's contribution suggested to people that the ACT of SELECTION is 'natural' and so is NOT something we should nor could defeat. To Nietzsche contribution, the idea that the winners IN FACT with respect to nature require accepting that success ALWAYS goes to those who command their WILL by utilizing ANY means. That is, the Nazis adopted the belief that regardless of 'right' or 'wrong' the reality is that only those who ACT with clear conviction to some "Nationality", ignoring compassion for people as a whole, defines what it 'Right' or 'Wrong'. That society requires inventing heroes, even where none may actually 'exist' (or be absolute to Nature itself), is necessary if ONLY BECAUSE THOSE WHO DO believe in heroes (Supreme Gods and the people's relation to them in favor of them) succeed. ...that if no heroes exist, we require inventing them, etc.

Its not accurate and more to the point, it is not germaine at all to what you think Zionism stands for.

Zionism never defined Jews as a race, let alone a special people or a superior people or a people with special powers or even an ideal people with ideal morals as Nietzsche proposed as examples for discussions on his proposed beliefs as to morality and its origins.

Your attempt to draw in Hitler and Nazism to a discussion about Zionism is another recycled canard that Zionism and Nazism are the same. You can repeat that false analogy directly or indirectly and pose yourself as an expert on nationalism lumping all nationalism as one Nazi-Zionist identical concept but they are not.

The comparison is justified but you fall for the propaganda intent to hide how others use the same Nationalism that derived the Nazis but don't want us to discover this. The Nazis interpreted Jews to be successful because of their Nationalism and WHY they decided to embrace it.

But...

The key difference and the false assumption and stereotype you pedal, is that Zionism defines Jews as a race. No Hitler did, we Zionists never did. Hitler bastardized concepts of what he though the Aryan race and races meant, all proven false by science.

I underlined what I now see grants you justice for your own reasons to hide the Nazi rationale. A "Zionist" IS a "National Socialist" == "Nazi". You prefer to hide this because you WANT to keep your discriminatory and racist stance against Non-Jews by hiding the intellectual associations you share. The error that Hitler and their party did was to overtly act discriminatively.

I am Completely ANTI-Nationionalist! I understand the accidental nature of us as humans AND animals to have evolved us to favor this, but believe that our intelligence can supersede this. But you are only doing what Hitler did too if you continue to hide that you are secretly hating some sub-set of people, placing them in camps, and annihilating them. In some way, you are being worse because your 'Holocaust' against the Muslim is to torture them by preventing them from eating, blocking them from access to their needs, and pretending your acts are in 'defense' or their hatred, when it is your OWN!!

He defined Jews as an inferior race, and people like you invert it to suggest we Jews using Zionism define ourselves as a race and not just a race but a superior one. We do not and never have. May I suggest you go find out how Zionists define what a Jew is. It has nothing to do with race. The myth we define ourselves as superior is blatant anti semitic ignorance the same ignorance that stereotypes us as being klannish. It comes from the mistaken ignorance that in our religion we feel we are superior because God chose is.

Begin by first recognizing that YOU DO NOT REPRESENT ALL JEWS, as you accuse me of collectively associating you as. Hitler CLEARLY advocated, (and in obvious error), that he WAS purposely advocating propaganda against Jews. It was unlikely that he cared one way or the other to whether Jews were actually inferior or superior or neither but clearly advocated supporting the delusion that this is so.

In fact in the religious story, "chosen" only refers to a promise we are said to have made to God and vice versa. That promise or covenant or pact simply states if we choose to believe in God through a collective of people as opposed to simply doing it on an individual level, God in turn will remember us collectively and not simply as individuals.

That concept has nothing to do with being special, superior or favoured. That false myth that it means we think we are favoured by God was planted by gentiles like you who don't make an effort to find out what our religion actually said or what Zionism actually states.

False on the first paragraph. But if you intellectually 'believed' in your superiority, wouldn't the wiser thing to do would be to feign the opposite anyways with obscurity?

I have NO doubt a lot of misinterpretation occurs on ALL sides with regards to history. Judaism is itself misinterpreted to be uniquely their own story when they have only borrowed it from others removing references to what or where it clearly demonstrated the real roots. "Chosen" wasn't even the original intent and one to which latter Jews also placed into interpretation, not just the Christians afterward.

I was explaining how and why others justified their disdain against the Jews BECAUSE the Jews ALSO, as humans, DID have disdain for non-Jews in kind. It is of human-nature that about half of them intrinsically believe in Nationalism and thus 'hatred' to define their own unusual 'love' of their own inversely.

Zionism is not religious at all. In fact it was created by atheists. It defines Jews as a people united by anti-semitic attacks that have been hurled against us requiring we then create a state as a refuge to escape from that hatred and assure never again can a state be used to exterminate us or persecute us. It has nothing to do with the Bible and in fact rejects the belief of fundamentalist Jewish religion that says until THE messiah returns to save the earth no Jewish state can be created.

Zionism in fact is not based on Jewish religion but contradicts it. Today there are Jews who mix their subjective fundamentalist Jewish religious beliefs with a concept of Zionism and they live on the West Bank, but they are and have always been a minority of Jews let alone Zionists and do not reflect anyone's views but their own.

cont. next post

Zionism IS SO religious! The term is identical in meaning to "Nationalism" but confers no specific boundaries (as in Patriotism). The function is to associate all those of Jewish AND those of that group who intrinsically believe they ARE a distinct people apart from others who are entitled to some special treatment. It is 'religious' even without Judaism when one believes their Nationality has remote significance even without a formal religion but to their SPECIFIC ancestry. I am 'red-headed' (lately called, "ginger"). But while I might relate to certain physical features, I have no other reason to defend the nature of Red-heads as some intrinsic culture and group with specific thoughts in common. You, as a Zionist, believe that you ARE a people, no matter how you try to redefine it. It would be as if I believed that I own the culture of the Vikings because I have roots genetically and/or culturally to them! Unlike you, I don't try to collect other red-heads together, demand we have a state, and go to where I think my ancestors 'owned' and then believe I should take over any of those traditional lands and purify my 'state' to be strictly red-headed favoring!

[Scott Mayers]

I would suggest Mr. Mayer in my final response to you that people ignored you because unlike me they felt no point responding to you.

I have keeping in mind that you probably will say my posts are too long and did not read them. I respond because I believe silence to anti semitism on this board can fan people like you. It also is a loud message not just to you but others who use the pretext of debating Israeli state policies, that if they want to come on this board and do what you have, I will challenge it thoroughly.

Using Israel to spread hatred about Jews has been vividly shown by you and others on this forum and on this and many other threads and in your posts. I also think in your case its deliberate and thought out and intended to insult Jews because of the choice of words used.

No, the likely reason others may not read is because they prefer shorter responses without the depth.

No, I am not any 'revisionist' and believe the opposite is true....that you support the propaganda (either intentionally or not) BECAUSE if favors you selfishly. You ignore your own acts.

As to ANYTHING about Germany and WWII, the way we get any history is often non-translated, demonstrates his 'fury' (= ander) using their term for 'leader', "Furor", to rhetorically associate him in kind. You ASSERT a negative: that the National Socialists did NOT derive their ideas from other philosophies to purposely isolate them from ANY kind of reasoning that might remotely appear rational out of fear others will see the same in the very Zionistic ideals the Nazis borrowed their hatred from.

I am equally disdainful of ANY Nationalisms, whether it be of some "whiteness" or "Canadianness" or whatever.

I also followed that initial response above with a useful comparison to the Elephants to attempt to remove our potential biases of being X or non-X by looking at another species all together. I notice you don't care to even try this. It would at least be more productive to use cross-species analogies to show how we each behave by placing us all into the same class. You are the one trying to be divisive because you are believing in Nationalism as some universally agreed to belief that needs no questioning. My point is that Zionism == Nationalism and it is HYPOCRITICAL to deny you relate in sync and own a part of this if and where you support the State of Israel to be a distinctly Jewish place with acts that highly discriminate against the Palestinians you displaced and imprison just as the ghettos Hitler placed the Jews in. You equally hold the same biases as those you hate and need to STOP the cycle of abuse.

[Scott Mayers]

And,...Rue,

Note that my 'heritage' is of parents who ARE of "Christianity" but I have zero relation to that belief and so don't refer nor should call myself a "Christian"; If someone defends themselves as a "Jew" or "Zionist", this would be like me calling myself a "Christian" inappropriately. So if one want to dissociate themselves from being religiously nor genetically biased who even have roots of Judaism or Semitic roots, then you would rightfully be non-Jew, regardless of these factors. For "Zionism", this is a particular belief of having a Nation of dominance to favor "Jews" of ethnic origin (genetic and religious).

Edited February 25, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[Big Guy]

I ONLY speak for myself even if I was completely alone in my opinion!

You are not alone in your opinion.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to research and present such well defined opinions. That is a rarity here - especially in this thread. Be prepared to now be labelled as a "Jew hater, anti-Semite, Zionist hating terrorist lover" to name just a few.

We are more accustomed here to labeling than to discussing individual issues.

[Scott Mayers]

You are not alone in your opinion.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to research and present such well defined opinions. That is a rarity here - especially in this thread. Be prepared to now be labelled as a "Jew hater, anti-Semite, Zionist hating terrorist lover" to name just a few.

We are more accustomed here to labeling than to discussing individual issues.

That's why I tried to use an elephant attack example. It might help if we can shift to using different analogies so we can all relate without getting too personally hurt.

Oh,...and thank you for acknowledging support too. It's hard to determine if people don't speak because they agree without need to add more or find it unworthy of response out of disgust.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[Rue]

Scott Mayers you make a lot of subjective comments in 3 responses to me and emersed into them are certain subjective pronouncements. I am only going to respond to some of them as most of them are subjective opinions that simply repeat your origial assertions I already responded to.

You posed this statement/question:

"Let's just merely begin with the word 'anti-semetic' here. Why is 'anti-X' assumed somehow sufficiently evil where 'X' stands only for one type or subgroup of humans? In fact, ONLY if 'X' stands universally for all people (or, as my Elephant example was to demonstrate, ALL living things), does a FAIR interpretation of what is wrong about discrimination count. Y

I addressed specifically your comments and do so now. You are not X. Your attempt to pose your comments as an equation, re-identifying yourself as x and your anti semitic remarks as calculus is amusing.

Also do me a favour you can knock off the lectures on philosophy when you respond to me. . I am not interested in debating you on your subjective interpretations. I limit myself to responding to those comments I believe are hateful of Jews.The only reason I did mention certain writers was to make the point you didn't know who the actual sources are that influenced Nazism but posed yourself as an authority on precisely that topic. and falsely posed it as being Neitzsche.

Now I am only going to respond to some of your comments that you made in the last 3 posts as the majority of your comments repeat your original statements and again as in the first instance, provide no reference for any of your conclusions.

You stated:

"The comparison (equating Jews and Zionism to Nazis and Nazism) is justified but you fall for the propaganda intent to hide how others use the same Nationalism that derived the Nazis but don't want us to discover this. The Nazis interpreted Jews to be successful because of their Nationalism and WHY they decided to embrace it."

You created a fictitious entity called "others", then blame them for hiding the truth about Nazis and filling my head with their lies Please understand you are on record over 4 times as saying Nazis admired Jews. for being successful. That is the comment I challenged because anyone can find in public records in great detail the extent and nature of hatred and resentment Nazism harboured for Jews which is precisely which led to the extermination of six million Jews. Please do not use this forum to invent groups and use them as a [retext to throw negative slurs and stereotypes of what tou think I believe. All you do with such slurs isevidence you fabricate groups to justify slurring me with negative accusations of what you think t I believe.

You made this statement:

"I underlined what I now see grants you justice for your own reasons to hide the Nazi rationale."

In this above statement you escalate your response with a new negative slur/ projection again gt me

assigning a motive to me that I hide the truth about Nazism and Htler. That's illogical, I can't and do not hide the Nazi record. It speaks for itself. Its public domain.

You stated:

"A "Zionist" IS a "National Socialist" == "Nazi". You prefer to hide this because you WANT to keep your discriminatory and racist stance against Non-Jews by hiding the intellectual associations you share."

Zionism and Nazism are not the same thing no matter how many times you repeat that . Anyone can go find that out for themselves. I can't hide what Zionism is.,You also again projected another native slur against me on me, this time the accusation I am a a racist and discriminate against non Jews by hiding the intellectual associations I share. Well if I I hide them how do you know I hidethem? Lol, Now for someone who came on this board defending his comments about Jews as logical using an x formula you seeem to be struggling a bit with your logic and spending most of your time name thrwing negatuive slur projections on me Now tell me how do you know I hate non Jews? Please share with me your psychic abilities. You assume because I am a Zionist Jew, I hate non Jews, because you think Zionism teaches hatred towards non Jews. That is not true. Again, anyone can find out what Zionism is about-at no time does it define Jews as a race let alone a superior one. You can keep repeating that falsehood, then project qualities on to me of that falsehood but that is illogical and its pointless. You don't establish verification of your conclusions by name calling.

You do demonstrate in the above responses a need to cplace me in a larger group, then assign negative qualities and beliefs to that group and then from that group to me. That is precisely the pith and substance and oathogen of anti-semitism. and that is precisely why I call you an anti-semite...because you attack the very Jewish collective essence of my soul with hateful name calling.

Most importantly I have never stated anything in response to you or anyone that suggests or states anyone or any group is inferior to me or Jews. Never once. You made that false accusation based on you stereotyping me for what you think I and other Zionists believe based on your false understanding of Zionism. Just as you came on this forum posing as an expert on the etiology of Nazism and were shown to be wrong, how about before you provide any more lectures, you actually read something by Theodore Herzl before you pass yourself off as an expert on what he said.

You made this statement:

" But you are only doing what Hitler did too if you continue to hide that you are secretly hating some sub-set of people, placing them in camps, and annihilating them."

The above demonstrates exactly the extent and degree of your hatred. You accuse me of annihilating people and placing them in camps. You've reduced your responses to shrill personal attacks assigning me culpability for what you think Zionists do

Now in regards to your specific attack on me for being Jewish or as Jew you said:

"First off, I am atheist!!"

then you stated;

"note that my 'heritage' is of parents who ARE of "Christianity" but I have zero relation to that belief and so don't refer nor should call myself a "Christian"; If someone defends themselves as a "Jew" or "Zionist", this would be like me calling myself a "Christian" inappropriately. So if one want to dissociate themselves from being religiously nor genetically biased who even have roots of Judaism or Semitic roots, then you would rightfully be non-Jew, regardless of these factors. For "Zionism", this is a particular belief of having a Nation of dominance to favor "Jews" of ethnic origin (genetic and religious"

The above statement shows you do not understand Zionism, the definition of a Jew, the difference between how Jews and Christians define therm selves and believe because you define Christianity only as a religious identity, we Jews can only define ourselfs in the same manner you do with your own Christian identity.

Your inability to differentiate and separate your beieffsystems from mine or other Jew demonstrates a lack of empathy and narcissism, further, zionism does not define Jews as simply being people who practice Judaism. In fact it rejected and provided an alternative defintiion to the religious definitiion of what a Jew is. The defintiion of Jew is fluid. It has never ever been defined simply as one who practices Judaism and no its not simply defined by genetics.

Zionism ias created as a direct existential response to we Jews being threatened by discrimination. It was about creating a refuge so we could escape from states that treated us as inferiors. In the Muslim Sharia Law world where Islam was and to this day is not sepeaated from state, the state defined us as inferior s,. dhimmis, khafirs. We chose to create a state of our own to never again be second class in any state including Muslim Sharia law states and interestingly you do not hold Muslim sharia law states to the standard you hold Jews. Where are your posts calling Muslims racists, etc.? Hmmmm?

Zionism was also created as a direct existential response to not just the holocaust but thosuans of years of discrimination by states who did not seperate Christian beliefs from their state organs. Its interesting to note as well in your analogy of Christian identity, you skip over Christian nationalism. Britain is an Anglican state. The Vatican is a Rome Catholic state. Not a peep from you about them beingr cist, Not a peep from you about any Christian state or Muslim state that in the past or today invaded nations in the name of their God and wiped out non believers. Not a peep from you about the Christian monarchs who in connection with their churches systematically wiped out Jews. No not uin your world. No talk about Northern Ireland, the Crusades, the Catholic-Protestant wars, llavery and inquisition by the good Spanish, English, Christians not you. You just single out Jews.

Zionism didn't arise as a vacuum as you stated. We Jews didn't just wake up one morning and say, hey its a good day to hate non Jews, lets start a nation. What a ludicrous proposition you have tried to advance. We created a national identity to escape Christian and Muslim nationalism. We created a nation to escape and be provided refuge from Christian and Muslim nationalism.

We didn't create a nation becauise we define ourselves as superior and hate non Jews as you have stated. We started it to escape hatred and never again have a state try kill us or define us as inferior but to protect us.

No being a Jew is not just following Judaism. That is only one component of an ever evolving concept that consists of many components not just one or two rigid stereotypes you think it holds to. No we do not define ourselves genetically. The genetic link only was used to repudiate anti-semites who claimed we Jews did not descend from the Middle East Jews but were all non Jews born from Christians. No Jews are not just defined by blood type traced back to the Middle East but if it has to be used to repudiate false anti semitic claims yes we will use it. Like any national identity our identity can be traced through ancestry. In our case through the maternal line. We are no different than any other national group that does that. Some follow the paternal line like Canadian native peoples, others the maternal line.

You clearly have no idea of what a Jew is but think you do. No we do not define ourselves as you do, by simply being followers of Judaism. Nonsense. Zionists were atheist Jews. Unlike you we Jews define ourselves in many ways. Many Jews are atheists and call themselves humanists. There is a Humanist Jewish community. Other Jews are Reform,. Conservative, Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox, Reconstructionist, some choose to incorporate Taoism and Buddhism into their Jewish beliefs which is totally compatible. We have thousands of versions of Jews mixing concepts of ethnicity,culture, language BUT NEVER race,. We have never defined ourselves as a race-you do-Nazis do-not us.

You stated:

"In some way, you are being worse because your 'Holocaust' against the Muslim is to torture them by preventing them from eating, blocking them from access to their needs, and pretending your acts are in 'defense' or their hatred, when it is your OWN!!"

Your words are absurd and repeat the need to slur me personally for being a Jew expressing his identity through a collective soul. You make personal accusations against me of torturing, starving Muslims. Really. That must be something, sitting on that moral pedestal, looking down at me the demon Jew and telling me how evil I am. Do you really think demonizing me to make it then justifiable to hate me for being a Jew is new? You think you are the first gentile to come on this forum let alone in public to express hatred towards me because you think I am a Jew who doesn't know his place (stateless and without a colective)? Really? You think your hatred against me because I defend my being a member of the Jewish collective is new? Lol. Been going on for thousands of years.

You stated:

"Begin by first recognizing that YOU DO NOT REPRESENT ALL JEWS, as you accuse me of collectively associating you as."

I do not claim to represent any opinion but my own. I did state Zionism defines Jews as a collective identity, no more, no less. You have mixed the two up and make us one and the same and as I have shown above with your words, h you continue to demonize me with negative stereotypes because I choose to be a Jew through a collective identity.

You made this statement:

"Hitler CLEARLY advocated, (and in obvious error), that he WAS purposely advocating propaganda against Jews. It was unlikely that he cared one way or the other to whether Jews were actually inferior or superior or neither but clearly advocated supporting the delusion that this is so."

The above is illogical. If Hitler did as you say advocate against Jews, then necessarily he would have cared enough to advocate against them. The very advocacy against them shows the care. You clearly write contradictory statements.

You made this statement:

"But if you intellectually 'believed' in your superiority, wouldn't the wiser thing to do would be to feign the opposite anyways with obscurity?"

Clearly Hitler felt his beliefs in the Aryan race required he implement a system to rid his ideal society of Jews, Romas, the disabled, anyone he thought was in opposition to his plans. The fact you asked the above question clearly shows you don't understand Nazism.

You stated:

" Judaism is itself misinterpreted to be uniquely their own story when they have only borrowed it from others removing references to what or where it clearly demonstrated the real roots. "Chosen" wasn't even the original intent and one to which latter Jews also placed into interpretation, not just the Christians afterward.

I was explaining how and why others justified their disdain against the Jews BECAUSE the Jews ALSO, as humans, DID have disdain for non-Jews in kind. It is of human-nature that about half of them intrinsically believe in Nationalism and thus 'hatred' to define their own unusual 'love' of their own inversely."

First you presume to lecture we Jews and tell us we are mistaken about our origins and our beliefs. then you again repeat the false stereotype that we Jews are a hateful people and so created a collective soul because we hate non Jews. That is blatant antii-semitism and it shows at the root of all your presentations is false beliefs about ALL Jews.

You stated this:

"Zionism IS SO religious! The term is identical in meaning to "Nationalism" but confers no specific boundaries (as in Patriotism) "

Your above statements are patenly false and repeating them over and over won't make them true.

To start with in Judaism in fact the state of Israel should not be created until the Messiah returns first which is precisely why certain ultra-orthodox Jews will not recognize Israel as a state. Secondly Judaism evolved to believe in passive resistance and into waiting for the Messiah to save us as opposed to saving ourselves with our own actions. So Zionists were in fact atheist socialist, trade unionist, agnostic and non religious rebelled against conventional Jewish dependence on change through the Messiah and REPLACE the identity of a Jew as a political national collective soul that needed to become master of its own destiny. So clearly you have no clue what Zionism is but pose as you do much as you posed as an expert on the origins of Nazism and were clueless of that.

You also went on to make the statement that Zionism has no boundaries but would if it was patriotic. Everyone can read back the statement. It makes no sense.. Patriotism or chauvenism or nationalism are all part and parcel of one another they are not dettached. Furthermore, to define an identity any nationalism necessarily must have parameters or boundaries otherwise it could not identify the unique traits particular to its identit to then be able to differentiate them from other identities. Again you throw out irrational statements.

You offered this attempt to redefine Zionsm:

"The function is to associate all those of Jewish AND those of that group who intrinsically believe they ARE a distinct people apart from others who are entitled to some special treatment."

Special treatment? Lol. Interesting you won't come on this forum and say Sharia law nations define Jews and non Muslims as second class and inferior. You won't discuss the "special treatment" Jews were given in Europe for thousands of years along with their "special treatment" in Sharia law nations led them to create Israel. no not you, of course not. Hey here's a reminder, Jews created the state of Israel to find a refuge from special treatment, to protect themselves from being exterminated, tortured, starved, (you know the words) and other special treatmemt. Hey not in your world though right? Jews just woke up one morning and said, we hate non Jews, let's just go out and kill us a bunch of Palestinians, then torture and starve them, seems like a hateful thing to do.

Bottom line-you regurgitate anti-semitism updated to use the word "Zionism" to pretext it. You have demonstrated you do not understand the etiology and actual content of Nazism, Zionism, Judaism, and engage in holocaust inversion, false negative stereotyping to express hatred against Jews for defining ourselves as a collective soul.

Do I sound like someone you will dictate where my place is in the universe? Never again.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Q - What is the difference between a Zionist, an Israeli and a Jew.

A - You are an anti-semite.

/facepalm

Well you tried Scott, I'll give you that much. However I would not let Rue dictate where your place in the universe is either. You did pretext it all with 'this is my opinion', but still got berated for it like many have been before you.

[Argus]

Perhaps being there may make them a lot less biased than you.

Because that's real likely.

[Argus]

]Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?"

Stop being so self-righteous. How many civilians do you think the Allies killed in WW2? Any idea? You can't fight a war where there are civilians without them dying. The Palestinians chose to fight a war. The responsibility for the deaths are theirs.

Well then you should change your interests because "Peace, Order, and Good Government" is not actually what you believe in

Sure it is. That's why I believe in killing anyone who threatens that.

[Argus]

This is where you or other err in complete stupidity. The term "Jew" originally meant 'wander' and derived from the same root to describe a temporal stream or river that only flows in times of good times but dries up in bad ones [a Wadi]. The original 'Jew' was as much derogatory as it was virtuous and implied those who were transient (homeless or unbound to fixed land-ownership). I could go into quite the historical depths on this.

I'll bet you can. I wonder why, though. Why would an atheist be delving into the origins of "Jew" anyway?

But the reference to which this discussion is about is to the problems of the Middle East to which presently, the Israeli Jew who favors Zionism, are THE cause of all problems there due to their own NATIONALIST beliefs in their supremacy by their God to a 'right' to bulldoze over non-Jews of the territory they are declaring.

Garbage. The problems of the middle east are first and foremost caused by incompetent, corrupt and brutal dictatorships throughout the entire Arab world.

If you are talking about the problems associated with Israel, those are caused by fanatical Muslims who have been up in arms since the Jews were given their own country by the United Nations, and have attacked them repeatedly for seventy years, refusing to ever make peace.

I am 'anti-Zionist' here with the meaning, "those who believe they ARE a specific people AND who believe they have a universal right by virtue of a supreme command of nature/god, to act with utter arrogance to steal lands occupied by others

It's funny how many sanctimonious claims of being only concerned with "Zionism" there are from people on this issue, despite the fact most of the Arab world has the same sort of nationalistic religious sentiment about their entire middle east area. That is, after all, dar al-Islam (The territory of Islam).

[Argus]

We are more accustomed here to labeling than to discussing individual issues.

Well... you are.