Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Twin brothers have been arrested on terrorism charges at an airport in Montreal. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ottawa-twins-24-facing-terrorism-charges-1.2182235 I can understand if they are planning some terrorist action in Canada then prosecute them and throw them in jail but these guys are also charged with attempting to leave Canada for terrorist activity. Why are we stopping them from leaving? Let them go and do their thing and join their ancestors if they so choose. What right do we have to keep them from leaving? The last country to have that policy was East Berlin with their wall. Now if they try to enter Canada then we judge what they have done and refuse them entry if appropriate - unless we admit that we have no idea who is coming into Canada. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Why are we stopping them from leaving? Let them go and do their thing and join their ancestors if they so choose. What right do we have to keep them from leaving? The last country to have that policy was East Berlin with their wall. If "we" are going to assassinate people overseas, even our own citizens, or arrest them and bring them back here on charges then this is an improvement on those policies isn't it ? We're stopping terrorist murders from happening somewhere else, whether it's Yemen or the UK. I spoke on another thread about "our" response to terrorism and in terms of security it seems that borders will be erased. That's not what the hippies and communists wanted when they dreamed of one world, but I say take it where you can get it. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 They will get their day in court. And if convicted, better serving time here than risking they get released and commit other crimes. But if found innocent, then they will be released. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 So we will be making unilateral decisions on who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Lets say these guys are going to Syria are they going to fight with the Syrian army (bad guys) with the Syrian rebels (good guys) with ISIS (bad guys) with the Kurds (good guys) or ... How about Libya and Yemen? There are numerous groups about which we know nothing about. This is the first (and I hope last) instance of our government deciding who can and who cannot LEAVE the country. Remember when we used to deport people from Canada for doing mischief in Canada. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
GostHacked Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 You treat it like any other crime. It does not matter where they are from. They are here, and have to play by our rules. Deporting people for mischief is one thing, terror related charges are another. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 They will get their day in court. And if convicted, better serving time here than risking they get released and commit other crimes. But if found innocent, then they will be released. I'm surprised you don't have more to say about this "national security criminal investigation." Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
On Guard for Thee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 So we will be making unilateral decisions on who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Lets say these guys are going to Syria are they going to fight with the Syrian army (bad guys) with the Syrian rebels (good guys) with ISIS (bad guys) with the Kurds (good guys) or ... How about Libya and Yemen? There are numerous groups about which we know nothing about. This is the first (and I hope last) instance of our government deciding who can and who cannot LEAVE the country. Remember when we used to deport people from Canada for doing mischief in Canada. The surveillance that leads to the arrests in these cases usually reveals which "guys" they are planning to fight with. The other problem is you can't stop a citizen from entering the country, but of course you can arrest them at the border. Perhaps better to arrest them at the planning stage than after they have become murderers. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I'm surprised you don't have more to say about this "national security criminal investigation." I don't know much about this case. What are you looking for? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 So we will be making unilateral decisions on who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Lets say these guys are going to Syria are they going to fight with the Syrian army (bad guys) with the Syrian rebels (good guys) with ISIS (bad guys) with the Kurds (good guys) or ... How about Libya and Yemen? There are numerous groups about which we know nothing about. This is the first (and I hope last) instance of our government deciding who can and who cannot LEAVE the country. Remember when we used to deport people from Canada for doing mischief in Canada. I would suspect the investigation of them indicated their desire to join "the bad guys"........and as said, if we knew their intentions and let them go to cause terror overseas, what does that say of us as a society? Quote
Wilber Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Twin brothers have been arrested on terrorism charges at an airport in Montreal. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ottawa-twins-24-facing-terrorism-charges-1.2182235 I can understand if they are planning some terrorist action in Canada then prosecute them and throw them in jail but these guys are also charged with attempting to leave Canada for terrorist activity. Why are we stopping them from leaving? Let them go and do their thing and join their ancestors if they so choose. What right do we have to keep them from leaving? The last country to have that policy was East Berlin with their wall. Now if they try to enter Canada then we judge what they have done and refuse them entry if appropriate - unless we admit that we have no idea who is coming into Canada. If they are Canadian citizens, they cannot be refused entry. So letting them go overseas for further indoctrination and training is not the brightest thing we could do, even if we ignore the harm they might do to others when they are out of the country. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I can understand putting them on trial for something they have done or are planning to do in Canada. When did we start jailing people for wanting to leave Canada? When did we become the conscience of the world? So you cannot leave the country (the only way to do that is to put them in jail) because our government thinks you are going to do bad things in other countries. What about going to the Ukraine - to fight on the side of Kiev or the side of the rebels? There are hundreds of conflicts ongoing in the world to-day; http://www.warsintheworld.com/page=static1258254223 Who are the good guys and the bad guys in these wars? I may be in the minority on this one but I still believe that we have no right to jail somebody for what we THINK they are going to do somewhere else in the world. If we have good relations with the country to which people are going then we may choose to warn them - but put them in jail here? No! NOTE- Cannot seem to get cite page to work - google under "wars in the world" Edited January 10, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I don't know much about this case. What are you looking for? It just seems to be related to the national security apparatus you have railed against in the past. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 I may be in the minority on this one but I still believe that we have no right to jail somebody for what we THINK they are going to do somewhere else in the world. Do we jail people for uttering threats in Canada? Quote
GostHacked Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Do we jail people for uttering threats in Canada? If you threaten someone's life then yes. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 Yes - to Canadians who threaten other Canadians. There are hundreds of people who have opined to kill Putin or Castro or their perceived enemies in other countries. For example - If somebody posts, "If I get a chance I am going to eliminate Putin" and see they have a flight to Paris do we put them in jail and keep them from leaving Canada? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Yes - to Canadians who threaten other Canadians. There are hundreds of people who have opined to kill Putin or Castro or their perceived enemies in other countries. For example - If somebody posts, "If I get a chance I am going to eliminate Putin" and see they have a flight to Paris do we put them in jail and keep them from leaving Canada? But no to Canadians that threaten those within the Middle East? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Yes - to Canadians who threaten other Canadians. There are hundreds of people who have opined to kill Putin or Castro or their perceived enemies in other countries. For example - If somebody posts, "If I get a chance I am going to eliminate Putin" and see they have a flight to Paris do we put them in jail and keep them from leaving Canada? As has been explained, they don't just send cops to an airport which has international departures and start arresting people. Surveillance will have tipped authorities as to who's up to no good, and who'd just traveling. Keep in mind "big brother" is watching you so if you wish to head for Iraq I suggest not spending a lot of time on jihadi websites before you depart. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Posted January 10, 2015 Sorry I did not make myself clear. We do not put people in jail for threatening people in other parts of the world. The example I used was someone posting on their Facebook page that they wish Putin was dead and would like to kill Putin. The government finds out they have an airline ticket to Paris do we put him in jail and keep him from leaving? Of course not. We would soon fill all those jails that Harper is building. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Sorry I did not make myself clear. We do not put people in jail for threatening people in other parts of the world. The example I used was someone posting on their Facebook page that they wish Putin was dead and would like to kill Putin. The government finds out they have an airline ticket to Paris do we put him in jail and keep him from leaving? Of course not. We would soon fill all those jails that Harper is building. Yes, but as evidence hasn't been made public, I'm of the assumption that in this case, there was more than a facebook post....... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Various reports indicate these guys were on the radar for 5 months so it was probably more than a facebook post. Quote
Shady Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 It's just a few bad apples. Oh wait, that was from a couple of days ago. Ok, this is just some more bad apples, that's all. Stephen Harper probably said something to make them angry. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Are you shocked to learn there are bad apples in the world? Quote
GostHacked Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Are you shocked to learn there are bad apples in the world? I think he is talking about a specific type of apple. Quote
jacee Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 If "we" are going to assassinate people overseas, even our own citizens,Where did that come from?Are you just catastrophying? or arrest them and bring them back here on charges then this is an improvement on those policies isn't it ? We're stopping terrorist murders from happening somewhere else, whether it's Yemen or the UK.Nathan Cirillo and Patrice Vincent were both killed by crazies upset about being delayed/prevented from leaving the country.Pause ............ for thought. . Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2015 Report Posted January 10, 2015 Where did that come from? "We" means, ostensibly, all of the countries aligned in the "war on terror". Lots of quotes at play here. And, yes, these countries have killed their own citizens without trial or rationalization as to why, by deploying their military resources against said citizens. Nathan Cirillo and Patrice Vincent were both killed by crazies upset about being delayed/prevented from leaving the country. Pause ............ for thought. . ...which has nothing to do with what I posted. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
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