Zionism is Cancer

[eyeball]

Sorry Rue your bait is the wrong colour, set at the wrong depth, your hook needs sharpening.

You couldn't even catch a fish if it was swimming around in a barrel.

[Rue]

Sorry Rue your bait is the wrong colour, set at the wrong depth, your hook needs sharpening.

You couldn't even catch a fish if it was swimming around in a barrel.

The only point Eye and is you won't finish what you start and you couched your reference. All kidding aside its not helpful nor does it make for a meaningful response. I am not baiting you I am just laughing at how you are being obtuse.

Your words speak for themselves.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Rue

[eyeball]

Your words speak for themselves.

facepalm/

[jbg]

Very inciteful and reflective discussion.

[eyeball]

No not really.

[eyeball]

You know, I'm really not anti-Semitic at all. That said, somebody please tell me Rue is not a typical Jew.

No, even if he was I met Billy Crystal once and he was a very nice person....there's just no way I'm anti-Semitic.

[Bob Macadoo]

You know, I'm really not anti-Semitic at all. That said, somebody please tell me Rue is not a typical Jew.

No, even if he was I met Billy Crystal once and he was a very nice person....there's just no way I'm anti-Semitic.

Please tell me you were satirizing here.

[Rue]

As usual Eyeball you have tried your best to derail this thread to turn it into a pissing contest between you and I or JBG or who ever else it is you want to annoy. Lol.

The point is the timing of when you came on this thread, what you have to contribute and your choice of words do speak for themselves.

You are unable to contribute to the discussion other than to make some couched references and then bait.

Its not working.

When discussing Zionism one discusses the belief that Jews have a right to their own state.

Jews chose Israel because its where they came from. They chose Israel because Jews have continued to live in their indigenous lands continuously since the ancient days.

So to refer them as many anti Zionists do, outsiders, settlers, invaders, colonialists, imperilaists, neo whatever ists, displays a wilful ignorance of Jewish history and specifically an understanding of the origins of Jews.

It is in the case of certain anti Zionists a deliberate revisionist political exercise in which anyone who is a non Jew who claims to be from Palestine or descended from someone who lives in Palestine is, but if they are a Jew, that automatically disqualifies them.

It also engages in the false revisionist script that Muslims who flooded the area known as Palestine and in fact displaced Palestinians whether they be Jewish, Christian or Muslim Palestinians directly as a result of Churchill's immigration policy to flood the area with Muslims to prevent a Jewish state, are not outsiders.

A Muslim can come from anywhere to Palestine and call themselves automatically,Palestinian but if a Jew does it, they are an invader.

That Eye of course you won't address and yes your lack of words speak for themselves.

As for why Bob M suddenly needs to intervene on this thread is heart warming,. I had no idea he cared that so much about the topic he felt the need to contribute in the manner he did which certainly sheds light on the issues of the thread.

[eyeball]

Please tell me you were satirizing here.

You mean it STILL isn't obvious?

Maybe a cartoon would help.

[Rue]

What is obvious Eyeball is you try to bait me and insult me and throw out the "typical Jew" reference under the pretext of debating. Those words do speak to themselves and your failure to bait me and mock my being a Jew.

In your case you show a vivid example of how alleged discussion on Israel is actually a thinly guised or couched reference to Jews and interchanging your disdain for Jews with the state of Israel's existence in your zeal to giggle at me and try toxify this thread with chatter meant to distract from its contents.

Won't work. You give a wonderful opportunity to dsicuss that how in the dialogue by anti Zionists, the word Jew is often interchanged with Israeli or Zionist and to discuss the covergence of anti Zionism and anti semitism. Yah I know Eye, I lost you at "convergence".

In fact in this latest attack in France we see a classic example of how the Muslim extremists see no difference in their hatred towards the West in its entirety, Israel and Jews. They are all interchangeable.

In the constitutions of Hamas, ISIL, Hezbollah, Fatah, Al Quaeda, the enemy is not just Zionists but in fact all Jews clearly stated in the words that refer to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and professing them as values to justify a world war against Jews.

That people like Eye won't discuss. He will come on this or other threads and try draw attentiont to himself with comments meant to bait and giggle at me or others who are Jews but he won't discuss that issue because he has no clue as to its implications.

What Eye and Hudson Jones and Marcus have exhibited I would contend in some of their past positions statedon this forum is a failure to distinguish the concept of the Jewish identity as envisioned in Zionism clearly from Jews and to show its not the same thing being attacked by them.

We have seen people on this forum make comments directed at Jews and then hold those comments to be non anti semitic simply because they attack Israel as well.

These same individuals will complain as to a double standard about how Muslims are stereotyped and treated worse than Jews then in the same breath negatively stereotype Christians and Jews to express their positions.

I would argue that Anti-Zionism is not necessarily anti semitism but soon engages in it or enters into its eopression when or if the references switch to a dialogue that poses the delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel that then interchanges the word Jew with Israel.

This kind of anti Zionist rhetoric usually begins its refocusing to attack Jews by making insults as to Israel being a "Jewish" state and how Jews should not have a state or think they are entitled to one. This double standard poses that a Jew can not have their own state but Muslims and can Christians or anyone else can.

Then come the references to the “Jewish lobby,” not the Israeli lobby, the "Jewish" lobby then not the Zionist world conspiracy but the "Jewish" world conspiracy.

Then come the references to the Jewish illuminati and bankers.

Today we vividly see how in Muslim extremist expression there is no distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism or Jew and Israeli and this is precisely why when Muslim extremists attack they choose Jews, not Zionist Jews, not Zionist Christians, not even Christians, but Jews..

This is why the Palestinian conflict is referenced with anti Jewish stereotypes and anti-Americanism portraying Americans as dupes of the Jews, not the Israelis, the Jews.

Not one person on this forum who apologizes for Hamas and claims its different than ISIL and Al Quaeda can explain why they all include in their constitutions the adoption and quoting of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

Hudson Jones in his reference to Zionism being cancer or Jacee in her defence of Hamas being different from ISIL or Marcus won't discuss or acknowledge there is ineed a common denominator in today's Muslim extremism and anti-Zionism in that they both merge or fuse the criminalization of the notion of a Jewish state with negative stereotypes of Jewish behavior.

I would maintain that while anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are indeed two distinct ideologies today particularily on this forum with certain people when criticizing Israel they soon merge them with anti semitic references, sometimes deliberately, other times with no deliberate intention but still do so because these stereotypes of Jews are still deeply entrenched.

In summary what the pointless remarks of Eye show are an inability to differentiate between Jews and Israel when he comes on this forum and his need to try bait me as a Jew. What is a "typical Jew" and why does he throw it out as a mocking reference? No, no one needs a cartoon to figure out his agenda. Its quite simple-say something obnoxious to try get attention since there is nothing of substance to contribute.

I would also argue that when Hudson Jones describes Jewish thought as cancerous because it expresses itself in statehood this manifests a mutation of the old anti semitism into a newer one that continues to mutate.

In this mutation, traditional anti-Jewish stereotypes and defamations from prior to Israel's existence in Europe and the Muslim world have nwo been mixed and repackaged in contemporary political terms where we see attacks against Israel and Jews interchangebly as well as using language previously employed to demean Jews but now is used against Israelis and Jews.

I agree with Ruth Wisse who stated: "contemporary anti-Zionism has absorbed all the stereotypes and foundational texts of fascist and Soviet anti-Semitism and applied them to the Middle East."

The ancient semitic stereotypes of the greedy, power-hungry, malignant, (cancerous) and conspiratorial Jew is now used against Israelis and Zionists.

Jews were often referred to as a cancerous existence long before Iran recycled the phrase to describe Zionism.

Its far from original.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Rue

[eyeball]

Rue, you're a liar. You have nothing to base your charge of Anti-Semitism on. Anti-Zionism sure but not anti-Semitism. You seem quite fond of telling me what it is I believe and reinterpreting my words so by the same token; the only reason you hate me is because I refuse to hate the people you do. It's that simple, uncomplicated and very black and white.

Then come the references to the Jewish illuminati and bankers.

facepalm/

[Hudson Jones]

Here is King Bibi, who tried to make the Paris attack all about him and even though he was not invited, he decided to show up and then push himself to the front of the line.

http://player.vimeo.com/video/116492356

[Rue]

Your calling me a liar Eye yet again shows you try engage me in name calling and try bait me to try shut down this thread.

As for your words directed at me in regards to me being a "typical Jew" they are there Eye. They don' t disappear because you call me a liar.

They are there because you chose to try insult my being a Jew.

You keep up the name calling. The words speak for themselves.

So do the face palms.

[Rue]

Your comments have nothing to do with the thread Hudson Jones. They engage in the usual tactic though of trying to focus the thread away from the topic to a new pretext to insult Israel and avoid debating the topic.

You and Eye by engaging in the tactics you do show but one thing, you have no clue how to debate or respond to the issues you start but won't finish.

You are quick to make allegations and name call but it dies out right there and when you are challenged, your only recourse is to name call and insert a caption that has nothing to do with the topic.

Lol.

Bibi is a bo bo.

Yah that sure told me.

Yes Sir, that proves Zionism is cancerous.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

trying to focus the thread away from the topic to a new pretext to insult Israel and avoid debating the topic.

There is no focus in this thread.

There is what people say and then there is what you say people are saying.

End result is that you are debating against what people are not really saying. The thread and any focus was doomed as soon as you started typing in the first post.

[eyeball]

What he said, full stop.

[Rue]

First off Hudson Jones, why have you interchanged yourself with the word "people" in your response to me?

I know you think you and "people" may be one and the same but perhaps at this point in time neither of us should make that assumption and stick to your words and mine in this thread and not refer to ourselves in greater universal references. That might help us maintain our perspective and remain better focused which you claim is a concern of yours on this thread.

Now speaking of cancer and focus, the thread directly chose to challenge your comments in other threads calling Zionism a cancer.

Now just to clarify the fact that I disagree with implications of the words you stated that Zionism is Cancer does not mean you never raised those words. It is illogical for you to argue words you stated were not stated because I disagree with the meaning you ask people to conclude from those words.

I would also argue this thread is focused because it has enabled me to specifically address your Zionism is cancer words and allegation and evidence your failure to provide any methodology let alone objective methodology from which you rendered your cancer diagnosis.

I would then argue further that the fact you can't offer a methodology to diagnosis your cancer doesn't make the thread unfocused it just establishes you can't back up the allegations of cancer you threw out.

I would the argue if anything because of this inability to render methodology for your diagnosis of cancer the thread clearly shows I continue to keep specifically addressing the thread's topic and your lack of methodology to prove the deficiency of you claim each time you respond but can't provide your methodology. So if anything the thread is quite focused on demonstrating your repeated failure as an oncologist so to speak because you have no method of diagnosis from which to have launched your Zionism is cancer allegation. It shows you are a doctor with no method of diagnosis, you just pronounce medical conditions.

I would further argue your comment the thread is unfocused is absurd because if you did in fact find the thread unfocused you would not be able to respond to it. I would argue your responses show you know exactly what it was you keep coming on this thread to do and that is avoid providing your methodology for your cancer diagnosis because you have none and never had one.

The Hudson Jones Zionism and Rube Are Cancer Tal

A man in red walked up to another in blue on the street and said, "you and all the people in your village have cancer".

"Why is that?", said the man in blue.

"Its obvious you all insist on wearing blue", responded the man in red.

"Well I am sorry to hear that", said the man in blue.

The man in red was about to walk way when the man in blue said to him, " I am sorry you have cancer".

"What" said the man in red, "don't be ridiculous".

"Oh no.." said the man in blue.."You must have cancer too , because you insist on wearing red as do all the people in your village".

"Of course not!" said the man in red, "Only the blue colour is cancerous."

The man in blue then responded,"Now 'that s interesting, what in the colour blue as opposed to the colour red makes blue cancerous

and red non cancerous?"

The man in Red then responded, " hey that its not what I said, I never said that.."

The man in blue then responded, well hang on let's ask the old man sitting over there what he heard you say to me.."

The old man said; " oh hell does it matter, isn't it obvious the man in red is colour blind just look at the socks he chose. to go with the outfit.."

POOF POW BANG KABOOM ZAP BAM

.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

There is no focus in this thread.

There is what people say and then there is what you say people are saying.

End result is that you are debating against what people are not really saying. The thread and any focus was doomed as soon as you started typing in the first post.

I think you nailed it.

[Rue]

I think you nailed it.

Love your socks.

[Hudson Jones]

First off Hudson Jones, why have you interchanged yourself with the word "people" in your response to me?

.

If you actually read what people say, when they find the patience to respond to you, you would realize that you have been accused of mis-representing several people in this forum with your long-winded, incoherent posts.

So when I say "people", I mean people.

[Rue]

Hudson Jones you are not "people". Speak for yourself. When you come on this thread or any thread and refer yourself in the plural it shows just one thing-you can't deal with me one on one and need to put in yourself in a larger pack for protection.

Lol.

People.

Lol, Hudson Jones one of the people.

[jacee]

Hudson Jones you are not "people". Speak for yourself. When you come on this thread or any thread and refer yourself in the plural it shows just one thing-you can't deal with me one on one and need to put in yourself in a larger pack for protection.

Lol.

People.

Lol, Hudson Jones one of the people.

HJ is right rue. You misrepresent people's comments, stereotype and trash people for things they didn't say. You never quote and respond to actual posts, just spew disrespectful crap like this post.

You have some interesting things to say but it gets lost in the verbiage and vitriol.

.

[Rue]

Jacee with due respect I have taken a lot of time to respond to your posts in great detail as I have with HJ's.

This is a debating forum.HJ has been quick to express subjective opinions as facts.

In so doing he did not provide any objective methodology for his opinions.

I am still awaiting his explanation on how he was able to determine people with Zionist thoughts have cancer that needs to be wiped out.

This is a political forum giving us opportunity to enable debate.

People have to be willing to provide a basis for their comments and be challenged on them and so when someone makes a generalized negative stereotype that Zionism is a cancer, they should be prepared to be challenged and explain what method they used to determine the cancerous qualities which HJ never did.

In fact he has repeatedly made subjective statements that are allegations and insults against Israelis, Jews or anyone who believes Jews should live in a Jewish state.

I too have been on the receiving end of his personal attacks calling me a liar because I challenged his comments-and so I have been very specific and clear in explaining why I challenged his comments and to this date he has not explained what methodology he used to test Zionist concepts to determine they are cancerous. In fact he hasn't even mentioned which Zionist thoughts were malignant, he just threw the word Zionist out in one large generic subjective negative stereotype..

Unlike HJ I take the specific words he prints on this forum and restate them and when I express a subjective opinion I make clear it is and do not state it as a fact.

Now Jacee I appreciate you will always have anti Israeli opinions and will defend him and Eye and if need be Ghost and Guyser and whoever else disagrees with me.

I appreciate that is your right but this group of like minded people do not control the board, are not because they are a group more valid in opinion than I and throwing out allegations with no substantiation is not debating its name calling.

I do not expect you ever to agree with me but I would hope if you come on this board you can do better than call out Zionism is cancer and then not back it up.

That is not debate-its just words for the sake of arousing people's resentment and negative emotion for Israelis and Jews or Israel supporters in my opinion

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a bloody mess with complex legal issues and my hope is that I counter the comments of people like HJ because I believe his comments are hateful, offer no solutions to the conflict or in fact any logical discourse.

I do not believe a Jew who is a Zionist has any more cancerous thoughts than a Palestinian who wants his or her own state and that is why I have challenged HJ.

You can defend HJ or Guyser or Ghost, I understand.

I will say this though, in all the back and forths we have had, as much as you disagree with me you have shown a basic courtesy and I respect that. You know I do.

I want you to know, some of us have witnessed bad things. Those bad things have inspired us to find a way to bring Palestinians and Israelis together.

I challenge the words of Eye, HJ, Ghost, Guyser, anyone else, when they make negative generalized stereotypes about Israelis, Jews, Zionists or anyone else the same reason I challenge it if its done about Europeans, Westerners, Christians, Palestinians or Muslims.

If you want to challenge any words I have said you think falsely generalizes an entire people's motives and beliefs, please do so.

This form and the issues we debate are not about HJ, Eye, or anyone else. They are about the political issues.

In conclusion do you not find it interesting that HJ can not provide a methodology for his determination Zionism is a cancerous thought but has tried many times now to bring the debate to a personal level about how he has been treated by me?

Why?

That stuff belongs off line. You want to call me rude and insensitive to HJ take it off line or have him take it off line.

Let's stop the personal references and discuss the issues.

So on that note I say, HJ's calling Zionist thought cancerous is as pointless as his starting a thread suggesting all of Europe is being folled by Zionist acrobatic ideology let alone that all Zionists call anyone who criticizes Israel as anti semitic.

Such words simply advance subjective stereotypes or assumptions as to the beliefs of an entire people, and therefore necessarily are illogical and rendered absurd.

We have to push ourselves in debate to do better than make sweeping slurs about Zionists for the same reason you would find it unacceptable if I came on here and talked about all Palestinians or all Arabs in negative terms,

In fact neither you or I should be claiming we know what anyone thinks let alone millions of people should we?

Would you have me believe HJ is capable of looking into the minds of all Zionists and determining they have the exact same thoughts?

I doubt he even knows what a Zionist is. You think he has ever met one? Have you? Do you think if you did their opinion is the same as every other Zionist out there....really?

Edited January 19, 2015 by Rue

[jacee]

Gusyer the tactic of trying to suggest people are accused of anti semitism on this board simply because they criticize Israeli state policies has been used many a time. When certain people have been accused of it, its been in specific circumstances and context where they have failed to differentiate between Israeli state policies, and Jews as a people or the religion of Judaism.

Now for example if you argue its cancerous for a Jew to believe he or she has the right to express themselves through a state collective identity I will challenge you. If in that comment you then start making references that create one standard for Jews, another for non Jews in regards to the right to express themselves through a state I would probably call that disriminatory against Jews yes. When does it become hateful or anti-semitic?

Well let me ask you this and answer it please with fairness. How do you refer to a Jew who believes in statehood as one who holds a cancerous belief that needs to be wiped out and not be hateful against that Jew for experssing his state collective identity?

How is it possible to support a Muslim state for Palestinians while in the same breath saying Jews can not have a Jewish state?

That double standard, that discriminatory standard that supports Muslim states but says not one Jewish state means what?

Link to where ANYONE ever said that ANYWHERE on this board, Rue.

.

[Rue]

Link to where ANYONE ever said that ANYWHERE on this board, Rue.

.

Go to the anti semitism thread and see my response to Ghost there for one example.