Zionism is Cancer

[Rue]

Over the course of about a year I have been involved in discourse with a poster referred to as "Hudson Jones".

In an earlier post sent to me about a year ago he referred to Zionism as a cancer that needed to be wiped out.

Then over the course of numerous debates and comments about Israel\'s right to exist where he questioned Israel's right to exist I reminded him of this comment.

At one point several regular contributors sympathetic to his anti Israeli position questioned me and claimed I fabricated this comment. I explained to them I did not and repeated it. At one point Michael Harder for example asked me to produce the comment and I did.

Now a disagreement arose between myself and mr. Jones and others, because it was felt by them that its possible one can argue Zionism should be wiped out as a cancer but this does not necessarily mean killing or wiping out Israelis.

I in fact asked Mr.Jones directly how wiping out Zionism does not necessarily mean wiping out Israelis living in Israel and his response was indirect and avoided a direct answer. That is public domain and now on record on this forum.

A few weeks back Mr. Jones complained to the moderator I attacked him personally and lied by claiming he wanted to wipe out Israeli Jews.

I now wish to clarify my comments so to make clear I had no intention to misquote what was actually stated by Mr.Jones and I will in specific detail starting with stating that I never stated he literally stated he would kill Israelis but did state that his comment that Zionism is cancer is the equivalent of stating Israelis should be wiped out. I could have been clearer and apologize for that.

So I now will be.

First let's be clear where Mr. Jones got his comment from. Its not original. If you to ;

www.newser.com/152328/israelis-a-tuu-that-must-be-wiped-out-ahmadinejad.html;

You will see that in fact on Al Quds day, Aug.17, 2012, the then Iranian President Ahmadinejad stated;

"The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumour. Even if one cell of them is left in one inch of Palestine they will reappear."

The above phrase I contend is well known in the anti Israeli community as a call to kill and wipe out the Jews of Israel. It also contend is a popular phrase used by anti Israelis particularly who are involved with the propagation of Hamas/Hezbollah anti Israeli positions.

I tend to believe Zionism is probably the most misunderstood and overused word on this forum and is almost always used in a negative and incorrect sense to suggest it is the belief Jews are superior to non Jews.

Zionism was in fact a phrase created by Nathan Birnbaum in 1890. It makes no reference to Jews being superior to anyone.

It simply refers to the concept that Jews are a collective and have the right to their own sovereign state in their original homeland of Israel.

It had no reference to religion and in fact most of its original creators were atheists and socialists and so it was in fact repudiated and still is by certain ultra orthodox Jews who believe Jews are being punished by God for our sins and must remain in exile until the Messiah returns.

Most ZIonists today have never been nor are they religious.

Zionism means nothing more than the concept of Jews having the right to live in their own state no different than say the Irish or Italians. In fact the law of return for Jews to Israel which fast tracks their citizenship is no different than the laws of over 125 other nations such as Japan, Taiwan, China, Eire(Ireland), Belgium. Germany, the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic,Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine.

The expulsion of 900,000 Jews from Arab nations in the late 1940's to early 50's required necessarily 700,000 of them to flee to Israel with nothing. the remaining 200,000 went to relatives in France and the US.

Keep in mind during and after WW2, Canada did not take in Jews fleeing the Nazis. McKenzi King referred toJes as vermin and rats and sent a ship of Jews back to Nazi Germany to die.

In Toronto up to and during the war signs remained on its beaches saying NO JEWS ALLOWED.

Jews had to start their own hospital and were shut out of professions in Canada.

This went on across the Western European nations. The influence of anti Jewish beliefs promulgated by Christian ties to these governments was no different than the lack of separation of sharia (Muslim) law and its states and Zionism said simply,the lack of detachment of these states from their respective religions enshrines a discrimination against Jews and the only solution is to create a Jewish state to guarantee never again will the state be used against Jews but instead to protect Jews.

There was no religious concept per se. It was a reaction to dhimmitude of the Muslim world and Christian discrimination in the West culminating in the holocaust.

Thus when someone like Hudson Jones appropriates Ahmadinejad's reference to cancer, I contend it necessarily means that Jews as a state collective must be wiped out.

Listen carefully to the rhetoric because someone like Hudson Jones if pressed on what does wiping out Zionism mean won't answer.

Like Ahmadinejad its easy to say wipe out Zionism but what does that entail-do these Jews of Israel get radiated? They are after all cancer cells, so? If they are cancer cells how does one wipe them out?

Do you know a concept of cancer that says lets take these deceased cells and just plop them someone place else?

Well? In the discourse on Israel's right to exist, we heard a reference to send them back to Germany. Then when confronted on that suggestion I was told well Jews are Germans.

Please note Hudson Jones would not discuss what will happen to Israeli Jews once Israel as a Zionist concept is "wiped out". I asked him and he would not answer directly. Why? Why do you think?

Now its interesting because Hudson Jones will call out to wipe out Zionism, but then chastize anyone supporting bombing Syria and see no disconnect or selectivity in his comments.

How is it Israel is the only country whose existence is questioned on this board?

Take a look out how the word Zionism is now used. Mostly its used to suggest expansionism and a desire to hate and kill Palestinians. Zionists are described as Nazis engaging in genocide.

Palestinians are not gassed, and they were placed in refugee camps by the Arab League of Nations not Israel. Arab countries refuse Palestinians citizenship.

Jordan which offered it now will have nothing to do with Palestinians after their attempt to overthrow King Hussein failed in 1967 which in fact was the first time the term Palestinian as it is used toy was first used by Arafat,

Hamas today calls for a war against all Jews worldwide not just Israel as part of a religious Muslim duty but th pro Hamas supporters on this board will not acknowledge its constitution.

Well? Have Marcus or Hudson Jones or Ghost or Guyser or Jacee when asked acknowledged the Hamas charter or for that matter acknowledged Mr.Abbas has said he will never accept a Jewish state in the same breath his own charter calls for a Muslim Palestinian state in Jordan, Israel and the West Bank?

Ask yourself why did Hudson Jones in a subsequent attempt to justify his Zionism is cancer comment throw in Wahabism as well? Does calling for a second wipe out make his comments more credible? Did that make him an equal opportunity wiper outer? What kind of absurdity tries to make references to wiping things out sound credible my making them sound non discriminatory?

More to the point what does the concept of Jews wanting a sovereign state have even remotely in common with Wahabism?

Wahabis are a religious sect of Islam that believe in a world wide Muslim caliphate no different than the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIL, Al Quaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim council of Iran.

Israel has no mission to create a one world Jewish state. It doesn't have in its religion a doctrine that calls Muslims infidel and inferior as the above doing reverse with Jews and thus Israel

A Muslim in Israel goes to the same hospitals and has access to over 125 free legal rights groups. They vote in their members, own land, have jobs and the highest standard of living of any Muslim in the Middle East while in reverse,

non Muslims live in fear in Muslim countries.

Bahaiis are slaughtered in Iran, and are welcomed in Israel where they have their headquarters.

Muslim laws are forced on non Muslims in Sharia law nations and as a result non Muslims are persecuted or Muslims of the wrong sect such as Amidyha are persecuted. Jews, Christians, Kurds, Berbers, Bahaiis,persecuted but then so are Muslims who are gay, too Western,

I have argued this forum has become a place where anti Israelis have become lazy. They trot out the same rigid comments that misappropriate the word Zionism to mean something other than Zionism and often mixed to references which then insult the Jewish religion, Jews in general, engage in holocaust inversion, i.e.,calling Jews Nazis and engaging in genocide.

In conclusion all Zionism means is Jews have a right to live in a Jewish state. To call Zionism therefore a cancer to be wiped out is a call to wipe out Jewish Israelis or anyone who believes Israel has a right to exist.

When first raised by Ahmadinjad it was a call to wage war against Israel.

Israelis are not cancer cells. They are people who live and breath and have the right to exist as Jews in Israel.

Palestinians are not cancer cells. They are a people who seek a nation.

Palestinians and Israelis have equal rights to exist.

The only cancer is terrorism.

This is why I continue to reject the comments of Hudson Jones, Marcus and others when they make comments that attack the right of Jews to exist in their own nation..

I do the same if people say Palestinians should not have a nation or Ukraine should not be nation.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Rue

[Moonlight Graham]

The only cancer is terrorism.

Well, how about we expand that to violence, resentment, and the failure to empathize.

[eyeball]

In the discourse on Israel's right to exist, we heard a reference to send them back to Germany.

No we did not.

Do you honestly believe Israel benefits when you lie in it's name?

[AngusThermopyle]

No we did not.

Do you honestly believe Israel benefits when you lie in it's name?

Actually yes we did. I remember reading that and thinking the person who said it deserved to have his ass kicked. So, yes, that was said. No lie at all. Perhaps before accusing others of telling lies you should actually know what you're talking about.

[GostHacked]

I can't recall how many times I've been accused of baiting you, Rue.

Zionism is a cancer.

Radical Islam is a cancer.

Screw it, RELIGION is a cancer.

[GostHacked]

Let me correct myself and say all MONO theistic religions are a cancer. If I was to subscribe to any religion, the best candidate is Buddhism.

[eyeball]

Actually yes we did. I remember reading that and thinking the person who said it deserved to have his ass kicked. So, yes, that was said. No lie at all.

Actually you're full of crap. I'm the guy you and Rue are libelling here so maybe you can go find exactly where I said "Jews should be sent back to Germany". Here, I'll make it easy for you.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/24074-surprise-israel-refuses-cooperation-with-un-gaza-war-probe/page-3#entry1011050

Perhaps before accusing others of telling lies you should actually know what you're talking about.

[eyeball]

We've all heard of people with mealy mouths but what's worse are people with mealy ears.

"The Babel fish is small, yellow, leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the universe. It feeds on brain wave energy, absorbing all unconscious frequencies and then excreting telepathically a matrix formed from the conscious frequencies and nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain, the practical upshot of which is that if you stick one in your ear, you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language: the speech you hear decodes the brain wave matrix."

I suspect right-wingers must have a similar creature stuck in their heads too, but it's probably more like a Goa'uld (which takes over a host's mind) and it encodes and infuses the brain wave matrix with ideology.

Whatever right-wingers hear a lefty say is mistranslated into a bunch of crap that only makes sense to them.

[AngusThermopyle]

Well, speaking for myself I have two suggestions. 1) going back to Europe and carving off a piece of Germany in reparation for the Holocaust.

Thanks for providing that, I couldn't be bothered looking for it. Yep, that's it. Ship em all back to Germany. Nice guy you are.

[GostHacked]

Thanks for providing that, I couldn't be bothered looking for it. Yep, that's it. Ship em all back to Germany. Nice guy you are.

At the time it would have made sense to carve a piece out of Germany for a Jewish homeland. It's not something that is even remotely feasible now. This is the point eyeball was trying to make, I think.

[Bob Macadoo]

Die quickly thread. Isn't this a direct violation of forum decorum......a whole thread dedicated to singling out posters rather than topics.

[guyser]

Die quickly thread. Isn't this a direct violation of forum decorum......a whole thread dedicated to singling out posters rather than topics.

Should be, but its par for the course .

[GostHacked]

Die quickly thread. Isn't this a direct violation of forum decorum......a whole thread dedicated to singling out posters rather than topics.

It is a shame, since the definition of trolling here seems to be somewhat ambiguous. Not sure if Rue is trolling or not. Maybe some of the experts could weigh in on this. Anyone?

[Rue]

This thread was a response to an issue brought up in the Israel Will Not Cooperate with the Gaza probe thread in which the existence of Israel was challenged and in that challenge as I stated above, comments were made by Eye suggesting Jews be sent back to Germany and Hudson Jones repeated his Zionism is cancer statement and which I challenged.

This new thread was raised because the Zionism is cancer subject is not related to that thread.

I came on this thread to challenge positions not related to that thread and identified the posters whose words I was challenging. None of my references to the posters attacked them personally, but did challenge their position as per the rules of the forum.

In regards to the previous position of Hudson Jones as to Zionism being a cancer the previous dialogue I challenged in this new thread originated from posts 114 to 117 ad 121 and 124.

People can decide for themselves what his words mean. I have as am I allowed, to express my opinion on what I think they mean.

As for Ghost's and Eye's comments I challenged, people can read his words and the dialogue from me in response in that previous thread as well at 43, 47, 52, , 57, 58. 59 60, 136, 144, 146, 154, 158.

In fact Hudson Jones stated in post 51 in response to Eye's comment and my challenge, the words, " Why shouldn't they (Jews) go back there (Germany)?

If you look to Ghost's statements he defended his comment stating: Germany owes Jews reparations so should carve off a piece of Germany for Jews."

I suggested in this thread the above words mean deporting Jews to Germany, for why else would one carve off a piece of Germany for Jews. I do now understand Eye is stating since he did not literally use the words,"deport Jews to Germany",my inference as to the meaning of those words is not true, so I am a liar as he stated.

Again I leave it to others to interpret those words and ask, what do they mean if not deporting Jews to Germany?

I point out when Eye responded to me he referred to this piece of Germany as being intended as repatriation for the holocaust as an alternative to a Jewish state given the context in which it was said and the sequence of responses.

I also believe his further comment that this repatriation reference referred to deporting Germans to Germany plus his subsequent trolling comment, seem to indicate that was his intention and this is why for example Dre stated its not practical to send back Jews to Germany.

Now I have done my best to address all those previous comments in this thread with both my responses.

As well I now wish to state the latest comment by Ghost that lists Zionism as a cancer, Radical Islam as a cancer and religion as a cancer speaks for itself.

I again repeat such comments appear to equate Zionism with a religious belief as it was listed with religious beliefs in his latest comment. Zionism is not a religion.. That is a misrepresentation and misunderstanding and myth those who do not understand Zionism equate it to.

Zionism is not and has never been a religion.

The definition of Zionism people can find on the internet.

There are Christians who support the right of Israel to exist who believe that as part of their Christian gospel. For them it is a spiritual belief tied in with their beliefs as to the return of Christ. The creation of Israel by Jews was an existential political act, not a religious one.

For Ghost to call out all religion as a cancer speaks for itself. Its a generalization and a negative one. Its the kind of cognitive process I challenge as being ignorant in that it offers no basis for the opinion, but throws out a subjective negative generalization that stereotypes anyone who has a religious belief as being a cancerous individual

That to me is ignorant in that it assumes Ghost knows what all people who have faith believe, and places him in a position to judge them all as cancerous. To me that incites hatred for anyone with religious belief and its the same exercise I have criticized when its been directed at Jews,Zionists and or Israelis or for that matter moderate Muslims or Palestinians.

A logical person would argue that religion is not all evil and not all cancerous. Yes it can be used by some as a weapon and basis to rationalize war, hatred, and negative things but it of course has also been used as a source of inspiration for humans to find courage and prevail and create positive and good things when all seemed lost.

I believe it is intellectually lazy and stunted to simply spit out a negative stereotype of all religions.

Interestingly in Ghost's response he refers to Bhuddism as a religion. It is of course not a religion as any Bhuddist could explain to him,

.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Rue

[guyser]

That Guyser and Ghost want to try suggest I am trolling is an example of trying to use the rules of the board to prevent discussion. I leave that to the moderators.

I never said you trolled in this thread.

So...you lied. Wonderful, lets get that out of the way.

I also leave to the moderators the accusation I lied. I am not here to engage in personal attacks just challenge position.

Yea, you lied. Wont admit it but there ya go.

Challenge position?

You make others opinions something else entirely then go on loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong winded bs rants that go no where.

All the while lying about a persons position.

Hopefully Eye will come along and chanllenge the Jews for Germany thing, ya know....the one he didnt say but you seem not be able to comprehend.

Good lord, grow some skin.

[Rue]

Posts 11, 12 and 13 speak for themselves Guyser.

I will continue to take the time to explain fully my positions and then let people compare the original statements you and others make and compare them to my interpretations.

[Rue]

Gusyer I actually went back and was editing my post as you wrote yours deleting the reference you quoted but I did originally place that quote.

I removed it anticipating a problem and to cut down on the content an clarify an unclear reference to comments fromboth Ghst and Eye I was challenging.

As I stated I do believe the previous comments from you and Bob M and Ghost in11,12 and 13 lent to the appearance all three of you were challenging my right to raise this thread and was trolling,.

The repeat tactic of calling me a liar is also noted.

If you want to debate the issues, be my guest. If you don't, just ignore the thread.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Rue

[guyser]

Never mind. Carry on.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guyser2

[guyser]

Never mind.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Guyser2

[GostHacked]

If you look to Ghost's statements he defended his comment stating: Germany owes Jews reparations so should carve off a piece of Germany for Jews."

Stop being dishonest. I think I made my point clear regarding the Germany bit.

[Rue]

The fact that I disagree with your comments Ghost does not make me dishonest. When you engage in references such as that, you in effect call me a liar. That is not debating its name calling.

Your words are there for all to see. They don't magically disappear because you say so.

Your comment when it was first stated was absurd for many reasons. You now want to deny you meant deporting Jews back to Germany.

So Ghost if I am to believe your position that carving off a piece of Germany for Jews does not refer to moving Israeli Jews there then I am to believe what, you will transport German soil in trucks to Israeli Jews? Then what do they move with that soil some place else or do they build castles with the soil in Israel?

Hmm?

It's a little late to try back pedal your way out of the comment Ghost. Its there for all to see.

What makes it even more absurd is that most people are quite aware that Germany has paid reparations to Israel an in fact has sent 6 state of the art submarines and now 4 state of the art frigate naval vessels to Isrel as a sign of solidarity.

Germany favours Israel getting out of the West Bank but has made it clear it does not expect Israel in doing so, to do it on terms that endanger the security of Israelis by leaving terrorists in striking distance of its people.

Ghost your comments the first time were poorly stated, as you claimed later on were done to troll did you not?

Just move one. They had to be challenged, they were and now its over.

Just keep in mind some of us come from families who were killed in Germany and in the holocaust and when we see such comments we do not appreciate it. It insults holocaust survivors in Israel, it insults Jews world-wide and it actually insults Germans today who are part of a country that is trying to deal with its past.

In fact Germany, Poland. and Ukraine have openly reached out to Israel over the holocaust and engaged in very painful and honest dialogue.Lach Walesa of Poland did much good in reconciling what happened to Jews in Poland by exposing the anti-Semitism in Poland in WW2 and saying Poles must understand what it led to. Ukraine when it became independent painfully reached out to Israel, and both sides went through some very eep emotional exchanges over the holocaust and forced starvation of Ukrainians. It was a huge step by Ukraine in addressing a slaughter of Jews in that country during WW2 and in return for Israel being able to say the suffering of Ukrainians at the hands of Stalin was one reason some turned to the Nazis.

Czechoslovakia was another country who under their former President Vaclav Havel made genuinely deep emotional overtures to Israel in regards to the holocaust and the anti-Semitism that arose after WW2 in their communist parties.

The fact is many people in Europe care about Israel, do not deny the holocaust, understand its relation to the creation of Israel and do not need to be lectured by you as to what they should do

The issue today is about the present tense and how Israelis and Palestinians need to work here and now in the present to find a way to live in mutual recognition and in peace.

Any attempt you made to reference Germany in this debate was uncalled for. That was the point. No more, no less and this board provides me the opportunity to state that so hopefully you do not raise it in that manner again for the reasons I stated.

I think myself, Germany has an important role to play in keeping Israel safe and it has done its best to do so and balance the need to encourage Israel to keep seeking peace.

Germany is a primary player if not the no.1 player in the EU. It is a crucial player in world stability today particularly in regards to Russia.

The strain between Obama and Merkel brought Merkel closer to Israel and hopefully a new US President can restore better relations with Germany so both can be the prime agents in containing Putin as part of the complex world chess game in offsetting conflicting foreign interests.

Putin in my opinion is a huge destabilizing force in the Middle East and the US needs a strong alliance with both Israel and Germany as part of a comprehensive checks and balances system to keep Russian interests realistic and prevent future Ukraine type invasions.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Rue

[GostHacked]

I made my point very clear Rue. There is no back peddling. There is nothing more to my statements or stance.

[Hudson Jones]

Rue, first you message me to tell me, and I quote:

Zionism is a cancer that needs to be wiped out.

Rue

Your attempt to ban me from this web site is duly noted. I am going to take appropriate legal action.

And now you're back to one of your worst habits in your forum debating skills; You're stating false comments about people's positions. For example, this:

Then over the course of numerous debates and comments about Israel\'s right to exist where he questioned Israel's right to exist I reminded him of this comment.

When did I "question Israel's right to exist"? Provide a quote or I will report you, as Charles Anthony has asked me to do. This is the last time I will address something like this again and will right away report you, if you do not produce a quote.

I never stated he literally stated he would kill Israelis but did state that his comment that Zionism is cancer is the equivalent of stating Israelis should be wiped out. I could have been clearer and apologize for that.

I accept your apology. I will disagree with your interpretation that saying an ideology like Zionism is a cancer that needs to be removed, would mean that anyone who follows it needs to be "wiped out". This is like saying, because I think Wahabism is also an ideology that needs to be removed, it means that I want Saudis and others "wiped out".

Your interpretation is your interpretation, but I know what I have said and what I have meant. Once again, I have never said or meant to say that anyone should be killed for their ideology.

Zionism is an ugly ideology. It promotes taking away other people's rights in order to achieve selfish goals. Any ideology that excuses violating human rights and inequality should be refused, shunned and wiped out.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Hudson Jones

[Rue]

Hudson Jones it is my I impression you question the right of Israel to exist.

To be crystal clear, you continue to question the right of Israel to exist because you question its right to exist as a Jewish state. Its current constitution defines it as a Jewish state.

You have made it clear you find Zionism a cancer needing to be wiped out, and in your most recent comment an ugly ideology.

Therefore this necessarily means you question the right of Israel to exist as it is now. What you have made clear is you will recognize Israel but not as a Jewish state.

Israel would not exist if it were not a Jewish state, another state would in fact exist. To say you recognize Israel but not as a Jewish state and its a cancer to believe Jews have a right to a state is there for all to see.

You can report me all you want. I get the tactic but the fact remains, you have made it clear you question Israel's right to exist as it is now, a Jewish state,

So that we have no more game playing let's clarify;

1. You have never literally stated you question Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

2. When you have stated you recognize Isral's right to exist, you have made it clear you do not mean as a Jewish state.

3. Israel exists today as a Jewish state and therefore to say you recognize it but not as a Jewish state, necessarily means you do not recognize Israel as it exists, but will recognize it if it ceases being what it is, a Jewish state,and changes to a non Jewish state which is not Israel, never was Israel, and can never be Israel since Israel was specifically created as a Jewish state.

If you are now saying you do not question Israel's right to exist as it is now,a Jewish state, and in fact recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, I will be pleased to acknowledge that.

Until then I make it very clear, you question the right of Israel to exist as it is today, a Jewish state, and I have challenged that as is my right.

Hudson Jones please don't try deny that you reject the notion of Israel as it is today, now as we speak. You don't recognize its right to be Jewish.

This is precisely why you refer to Zionism as a cancer to be wiped out and now call it an ugly ideology.

I get the game, you claim because you will recognize a non Jewish Israel its a misrepresentation for me to say you don't recognize Israel-I respectfully disagree-the Israel as it exists today is a Jewish state and therefore not to recognize it as it is legally constituted as a Jewish state, necessarily questions its existence.

I will send this post to Mr. Anthony and I trust it is clear my intent is not to mislead but the tactic of trying to hide behind literal words and suggest you recognize Israel and do not question its existence with due respect is not true. You make it clear you disagree with its Jewish essence.

I state it again one last time. Israel as it exists and as it was created, is Jewish,. Refuse to recognize the right of Jews to have Israel as a Jewish state, as it is today, you necessarily question its existence, and the right of its people to be Jews in a Jewish state that will protect them.

I can not be any clearer then that.

Instead of constantly trying to censor me and report me why not debate. Why are you so afraid to acknowledge you will not accept Israel as it exists today? Why would you need to report me to Mr.Anthony for stating that?

Dre most recently misstated a position of mine. I did not call her/him a liar. I did not run to the moderator.

If you feel a position has been misstated, please state why. I will be pleased to acknowledge you recognize Israel as it is here today as a Jewish state, if you so state. Until then I will challenge your refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

Surely if you want to be taken seriously by me you must understand simply calling Zionism a cancer and ugly ain't gonna cut it Hudson Jones. That's just name calling. There's no substance to your position other than to make negative call outs such as ugly and cancer.

That's the equivalent of sticking your tongue out, not debating.

One thing that is clear on this board, is that when not just you but others as well denigrate the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, words like ugly, cancer, quickly flow but there is never a position of substance behind these negations.

Why?

I have never seen you criticize any state for being Muslim or Christian, only one state on this planet and clearly because it wants to exist as a Jewish state.

Why is your selectivity reserved to calling a state ugly and cancerous as a concept, only when its Jewish?

Do you find the concept of Muslim states and their lack of separation between Islam and state apparatus to be cancers that need to be wiped out?

Never once have I heard you explain that. Can you?

Never once have I heard you state Vatican City is a cancerous concept or England is a cancerous concept for being Anglican. Why?

I trust this clarifies my previous comment. My intent is to challenge positions that have no substance and simply name call.

If you genuinely truly believe I am misrepresenting something, say so, I am pleased to acknowledge misunderstandings. I have done it many times. On the other hand, don't try hold yourself out not to be questioning Israel's right to exist, of course you do. You don't think it should be Jewish and that is why I have challenged your statements. I think it has a right to be Jewish.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Rue

[jbg]

Over the course of about a year I have been involved in discourse with a poster referred to as "Hudson Jones".

In an earlier post sent to me about a year ago he referred to Zionism as a cancer that needed to be wiped out.

He could easily have been referring to a need to treat Zionism with surgery, chemotherapy or theraputic radiation.