Teacher Stress Is Killing My Profession

[Hal 9000]

I agree that teachers have it easier today. I've got kids in school and the teachers usually do 1 of 2 things, they plug in a video or direct students to google/youtube. Teachers are as guilty as anyone else of getting on their cell phone and tuning out on the kids, I hear about it all the time.

[Argus]

Spoken like a person still stuck in the 40s. Newsflash: THINGS HAVE CHANGED

Yeah, they've gotten waaaayy easier.

[Argus]

You won't attract the brightest if you decrease pay

Teaching doesn't attract the brightest now. It tends to attract people who don't really have any idea what they want to do, and like the idea of having summers off. Young women also tend to like jobs which let them interact with kids.

[PrimeNumber]

You won't attract the brightest if you decrease pay

Also, what concerns you about the execution of our education system?

I think if the brightest are willing to start at the bottom and are rewarded for doing well, they will make enough money in due time and the ones who really shouldn't be teachers will get weeded out if they haven't already been weeded out while attaining their degree.

My concerns mostly have to do with high school, maybe it was more to do with my own experiences, but I think we could be doing much better in this country with our education system by not emphasizing university as the only way to make a living and be successful in this country. I think adding pre-employment level trades classes to the system could greatly benefit those who would be choosing that kind of career path and giving kids a jump start rather than having these classes available through post-secondary institutions when, at this time, it's a smarter option to go the apprenticeship route than waste your time with pre-employment. Just one of many ideas I've had.

[socialist]

I agree that teachers have it easier today. I've got kids in school and the teachers usually do 1 of 2 things, they plug in a video or direct students to google/youtube. Teachers are as guilty as anyone else of getting on their cell phone and tuning out on the kids, I hear about it all the time.

More anecdotal nonsense. I the teachers that I know who use their cell phones in their classrooms are using them as tools to enhance learning. Did you ever think of that, Hal? But I guess you are unfamiliar with 21st Century Learning, aren't you?

You're google/youtube comment is beyond ridiculous. I guess anyone can make up silly stories to make point.

[socialist]

I think if the brightest are willing to start at the bottom and are rewarded for doing well, they will make enough money in due time and the ones who really shouldn't be teachers will get weeded out if they haven't already been weeded out while attaining their degree.

My concerns mostly have to do with high school, maybe it was more to do with my own experiences, but I think we could be doing much better in this country with our education system by not emphasizing university as the only way to make a living and be successful in this country. I think adding pre-employment level trades classes to the system could greatly benefit those who would be choosing that kind of career path and giving kids a jump start rather than having these classes available through post-secondary institutions when, at this time, it's a smarter option to go the apprenticeship route than waste your time with pre-employment. Just one of many ideas I've had.

Yes, but you don't have a Masters in Education. It's the people with Masters degrees in Education who know what is best.

[Ash74]

Yes, but you don't have a Masters in Education. It's the people with Masters degrees in Education who know what is best.

Except for the ones with a Masters in education that taught before you have deemed is not lazy educators?

Or is this when you say all educators are amazing and saving democracy. I am just curious how you view teachers today?

[Hal 9000]

More anecdotal nonsense. I the teachers that I know who use their cell phones in their classrooms are using them as tools to enhance learning. Did you ever think of that, Hal? But I guess you are unfamiliar with 21st Century Learning, aren't you?

You're google/youtube comment is beyond ridiculous. I guess anyone can make up silly stories to make point.

They actually bring home papers for homework that tell them things to google...oh, and Wiki too.

P.S - They are using their phones the same way as any woman does, Facebook and candy crush. Unless it's cheap flight day

[PrimeNumber]

Yes, but you don't have a Masters in Education. It's the people with Masters degrees in Education who know what is best.

Yes, no one has a say about education unless they have a masters degree in it... So then, by your logic, an average citizen has no say in politics, unless they have a masters degree in it? Well I guess we should just shut down the forum and all go back to our day jobs like good little citizens.

Edited December 20, 2014 by PrimeNumber

[Ash74]

Yes, no one has a say about education unless they have a masters degree in it... So then, by your logic, an average citizen has no say in politics, unless they have a masters degree in it? Well I guess we should just shut down the forum and all go back to our day jobs like good little citizens.

Socialist by his own emission does not have a masters either and many that do are just lazy.

I would wager he never will. Nobody that has the education that he claims could be this bad at debating topics or beliefs..

[PrimeNumber]

Socialist by his own emission does not have a masters either and many that do are just lazy.

I would wager he never will. Nobody that has the education that he claims could be this bad at debating topics or beliefs..

He couldn't even muster a reply that had anything to do with my post, just deflected it with that nonsense comment. If he was an educator he would have had something perceptive and at least slightly informed to say on the matter.

Edited December 20, 2014 by PrimeNumber

[Human_Observer]

Like in every profession there are the good and there are the bad. A good teacher may have stress yes, because they care and want every kid to succeed. My sisters, father and mother were and are that way. Most of their peers i know are in it for the money and golden pension. They brag about what they have all the time. A teacher should be compensated based on performance and those whom fail should be let go, instead of being protected by the union and moved to another school.

A masters degree does not automatically mean you are a good teacher. The teachers whom made the most difference in my life were shop teachers. You know the teacher whom worked in the industry, knew what worked and didn't work! The ones that had real world experience. I have always said university is for theorists and college is for realist.

I also remember my grade nine year with a teacher whom had a doctorate in math. I was near failing in here class up until she got sick just before mid exams and had to be replaced. Long behold the replacement teacher whom was a former electrician, and switched jobs mid way through his career was able to actually teach and I brought my near failing grade up to an honours grade. My grade nine year was the only year i had less than 90% in math. Was it me or the teacher???

[Michael Hardner]

They actually bring home papers for homework that tell them things to google...oh, and Wiki too.

P.S - They are using their phones the same way as any woman does, Facebook and candy crush. Unless it's cheap flight day

?

All anecdotal and what are you saying about women there ? Do men use their iPhones for manly purposes somehow ? Unclear.

[jacee]

I think if the brightest are willing to start at the bottom and are rewarded for doing well, they will make enough money in due time and the ones who really shouldn't be teachers will get weeded out if they haven't already been weeded out while attaining their degree.

My concerns mostly have to do with high school, maybe it was more to do with my own experiences, but I think we could be doing much better in this country with our education system by not emphasizing university as the only way to make a living and be successful in this country. I think adding pre-employment level trades classes to the system could greatly benefit those who would be choosing that kind of career path and giving kids a jump start rather than having these classes available through post-secondary institutions when, at this time, it's a smarter option to go the apprenticeship route than waste your time with pre-employment. Just one of many ideas I've had.

I think you're talking about OYAP: Not sure about other provinces but the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program has been in place for quite a while - over a decade I think - to combat dropout rates.

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[Michael Hardner]

I think you're talking about OYAP: Not sure about other provinces but the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program has been in place for quite a while - over a decade I think - to combat dropout rates.

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Here are some stats on OYAP:

http://gooyap.ca/parents/important-statistics/

In 2007, employees in the skilled trades averaged 6% higher in hourly earnings than those in non-trades occupations.

Self-employment, particularly without employees, is a growing phenomenon among tradespersons. In 1987, only 9% of tradesworkers were self-employed; by 2007, this increased to 15%.

The vacancy rate for skilled trades jobs grew to 50 000 unfilled jobs in 2010.

In the next two decades, 40% of new jobs will be in skilled trades and technologies

Many more people in the skilled trades are retiring than are entering the system. The hardest-hit industries will be manufacturing, construction, petroleum production, and transportation.

These are arguable facts, however they are MUCH better than posting things such as "I work hard", "my friend the teacher is lazy", "I'm stressed", "my friend is in it for the pension" etc. etc. Those are called anecdotes, and the examples here aren't very useful at all because you can't hang any kind of discussion on your personal experiences when someone else won't believe you.

[jacee]

Apparently there are similar programs in all provinces:

http://www.careersintrades.ca/index.php?page=youth-apprenticeship-programs

[Hal 9000]

?

All anecdotal and what are you saying about women there ? Do men use their iPhones for manly purposes somehow ? Unclear.

Teachers are 95% women, so when we talk about teachers, we're basically talking about women. The fact is; people are people, women are women and men are men - simple as that. A teacher who happens to be a woman is no different than any other woman. My sister is a nurse, she spends most of her working nights knitting and being on her phone. My brother works at a mill, they watch hockey games at work. It's nature! doesn't matter what job a person holds.

[Michael Hardner]

Teachers are 95% women, so when we talk about teachers, we're basically talking about women. The fact is; people are people, women are women and men are men - simple as that. A teacher who happens to be a woman is no different than any other woman. My sister is a nurse, she spends most of her working nights knitting and being on her phone. My brother works at a mill, they watch hockey games at work. It's nature! doesn't matter what job a person holds.

iPhones and TV are nature ?

And... what is the relevance of this again ?

"P.S - They are using their phones the same way as any woman does, Facebook and candy crush. Unless it's cheap flight day "

Just a side comment on what women do with their iPhones ? If so, then... ok... but is it relevant to the discussion or ?

[PrimeNumber]

Apparently there are similar programs in all provinces:

http://www.careersintrades.ca/index.php?page=youth-apprenticeship-programs

The thing about these youth apprenticeship programs is that you still need to find an employer willing to sponsor high school kids, which a lot of trades employers are not willing to do.

Definitely a start though but this was never offered in my school. If we leave it up to the "educators" they will never push college, polytechnic, technical institutes on kids, they will always push University as the education system feels like anything less is failure.

In my high school we had one class known as Industrial Arts that covered two semesters. In those two-semesters the time was split up amongst the following topics; small engine repair, welding, drafting, carpentry and electronics. None of which covered anything very useful and nothing counted towards pre-employement courses.

What we need in this country is to offer pre-employment level programs for Mechanical, Electrical, Carpentry, Welding, Plumbing and Refrigeration offered within high schools so that by the time a student graduates with the needed credits they also have a pre-employment level trade. Which can easily land them a job in the real world the day after they graduate. Then once they have the required hours they can challenge their 1st year test within any post-secondary institution. Many may even use this as a fall-back if they decide to go the university route anyways. It's better to have to many skilled workers, than not enough.

[jacee]

If we leave it up to the "educators" they will never push college, polytechnic, technical institutes on kids, they will always push University as the education system feels like anything less is failure.

I think that has been changing for more than a decade now, and there's also more crossover options.

university-grads-see-college-diploma-as-key-to-jobs/article

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Edited December 20, 2014 by jacee

[PrimeNumber]

I think that has been changing for more than a decade now, and there's also more crossover options.

university-grads-see-college-diploma-as-key-to-jobs/article

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I suppose I don't know because I'm not in or around high schools these days, but when I was, there was not much guidance from teachers to go to College over University. Often times guidance counsellors pushed University as youfr best option, and while 20 years ago this may have been the case, it's just not true anymore. This girl herself in the article you posted didn't think about it until she had almost completed her degree.

These days you can spend less money and time going to a college, get hands on training and be making more money sooner than if you go to University.

One of my best friends in high school dropped out in grade 10 to pursue a career in welding, as in Saskatchewan you only need grade 10 level to get apprenticed in welding. By the time we all graduating he had already been looking into buying his first home. Made a lot of us regret not doing the same. To this day he still does not have a grade 12 diploma and makes more than enough money to support himself and his family.

Edited December 20, 2014 by PrimeNumber

[Hal 9000]

Here are some stats on OYAP:

http://gooyap.ca/parents/important-statistics/

These are arguable facts, however they are MUCH better than posting things such as "I work hard", "my friend the teacher is lazy", "I'm stressed", "my friend is in it for the pension" etc. etc. Those are called anecdotes, and the examples here aren't very useful at all because you can't hang any kind of discussion on your personal experiences when someone else won't believe you.

What's with all the "anecdotal" crap? Are we not allowed to use our own experiences and common sense to form an opinion anymore? Do we really have to be told by some blog or wiki article what to think now? I've been in school, i've been seeing my kids in school for 15 years now, I know a lot of teachers and some of them are people that I went to school with and still communicate with on a regular enough basis to know what goes on inside our schools. Am I really supposed to dismiss everything I know for the sake of some bias article written by who knows?

I know teachers plug in a video when they just don't want to teach

I know teachers direct they students to various web sites for instruction

I know that they play on their cell phones during class

I know that they are aware of ticket sale day and spend that day booking vacations

I know that they consider sick days as paid day offs to spend on the mountain or beach

I know that pro-d days are scheduled around long weekends simply to give teachers a 4 day weekend

I knew that after the strike the teachers would have no intention of reducing their spring break to make up some lost time

Sorry, I'll trust my "anecdotal" evidence more that some article written by a left wing rag (likely planted by teacher unions) like the Huffington Post or Globe and Mail.

[Michael Hardner]

What's with all the "anecdotal" crap?

an·ec·do·tal

ˌanəkˈdōdl/

adjective

(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA611CA611&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ie=UTF-8&q=anecdotal

Are we not allowed to use our own experiences and common sense to form an opinion anymore?

Sure, but it is about as convincing to the rest of us as stories about Bigfoot. Let me quote from the Forum Rules and Guidelines which are linked at the bottom of your page:

"If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc). "

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

What we have on threads like this is people like Socialist saying "I know teachers who are hardworking..." and others saying "I know teachers who are lazy..."

That doesn't lead us anywhere.

Do we really have to be told by some blog or wiki article what to think now?

No. As ever, you should make up your own mind. But if you expect me to be convinced by your stories then why aren't you convinced by Socialists ?

I've been in school, i've been seeing my kids in school for 15 years now, I know a lot of teachers and some of them are people that I went to school with and still communicate with on a regular enough basis to know what goes on inside our schools. Am I really supposed to dismiss everything I know for the sake of some bias article written by who knows?

No - you should make up your mind based on your experiences, but don't expect me to believe it over my personal experiences.

I know teachers plug in a video when they just don't want to teach

I know teachers direct they students to various web sites for instruction

I know that they play on their cell phones during class

I know that they are aware of ticket sale day and spend that day booking vacations

I know that they consider sick days as paid day offs to spend on the mountain or beach

I know that pro-d days are scheduled around long weekends simply to give teachers a 4 day weekend

I knew that after the strike the teachers would have no intention of reducing their spring break to make up some lost time

Anecdotal. See the above evidence.

Sorry, I'll trust my "anecdotal" evidence more that some article written by a left wing rag (likely planted by teacher unions) like the Huffington Post or Globe and Mail.

Some of us are actually curious as to what other points of view are. That's why we join a web board.

[August1991]

Since there's so many teacher's college grads out there with 4-5 years of education and quite a low demand for them, the starting salary for a teacher should be around 40k.

This strikes me as the key fact in this thread. Given the salary and working conditions, there is a line-up of people willing to do this job. That's generally a good indication that the wage/price is above equilibrium and hence there is a surplus - in this case, a surplus of people willing to work as teachers.

====

With that said, there are two major problems with education. First, it is almost impossible to measure the quantity or quality of what a teacher does. Often, the result of a good teacher does not appear until decades later. Hence, it is hard to distinguish between bad teachers and good teachers. (Compare with deciding whether someone is a good car mechanic or not, or a good pilot or not.) Second, recipients of a teacher's services (ie. pupils) have no idea what they need to learn. (Compare with doing your grocery shopping; that is, imagine giving your credit card to a grocery store clerk and asking the clerk to choose what items to put in your cart.) In elementary school, this is further confounded because parents supposedly defend the child's interests.

Last point: IMHO, technology is about to change radically the way we "educate" people. At present, in rich countries, people spend about 25 years (a third of their life) becoming functional adults. Yet, only about 2-3% understand calculus. (Admittedly, this is a great increase compared to 100 years ago but our education methods are very primitive and wasteful.)

Young people around the world, even in poor countries, have mastered the use of a touchscreen. This is the future of education.

Edited December 23, 2014 by August1991

[Bryan]

Sorry, I'll trust my "anecdotal" evidence more that some article written by a left wing rag (likely planted by teacher unions) like the Huffington Post or Globe and Mail.

Yes. Unlike the things you read on those sites, the things you see and hear are actually true.