Does Israel have a right to exist?

[overthere]

I'm not talking about what happened in 1947 or in 82 BC.

I mean right now.

Not interested in but but but but.....

Yes or no.

We can poll the Palestinian state question later

Edited December 2, 2014 by overthere

[eyeball]

No, these two questions are like co-joined twins that cannot be separated.

Israel has as much right to exist as Palestine.

[bush_cheney2004]

The question is moot...Israel does not require the "right to exist" any more than Canada or Brazil.

[overthere]

The question is moot...Israel does not require the "right to exist" any more than Canada or Brazil.

I was not aware that Canada or Brazil had so many sworn enemies who refused to recognize their right to exist as a state, and promised to extrerminate the place and everybody in it. Thanks for the update.

[overthere]

No, these two questions are like co-joined twins that cannot be separated.

Israel has as much right to exist as Palestine.

So your answer is 'no'.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was not aware that Canada or Brazil had so many sworn enemies who refused to recognize their right to exist as a state, and promised to extrerminate the place and everybody in it. Thanks for the update.

Your poll question, though well intended, is very patronizing to Israel. Israel fought for its independence as a state based on land carved up by the same royal actors who carved up North America. Why would Israel be treated any differently ?

[overthere]

Your poll question, though well intended, is very patronizing to Israel.

On the contrary, it is the very foundation and basis of a lasting peace in the MidEast.

Nobody is more aware of that than Israel.

And of course so are its enemies, who do not want this question answered at all.

To be fair, neither do some elements in Israel.

But that is neither here or there today.

Yes or no?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Yes or no?

No...Israel does not need the right to exist, because it can/will bomb any enemies who are existential threats. The 'right to exist' is just empty rhetoric.

I will poll Americans on another board to see how many think Canada has the 'right to exist'.

[eyeball]

So your answer is 'no'.

No it's not.

[overthere]

No...Israel does not need the right to exist, because it can/will bomb any enemies who are existential threats. The 'right to exist' is just empty rhetoric.

I will poll Americans on another board to see how many think Canada has the 'right to exist'.

Somehow you misread the question, again

I did not ask if Israel needs the right to exist.

I asked "Does Israel HAVE the right to exist"?

Not 1947, but right now today

Looks like a 'no' from you. Or maybe a string of 'buts'. Hard to tell.

Oh, and 'the right to exist' will be in the very first paragraph of any peace agreement in the ME, and will cover a couple of nations. Obviously. It cannot be otherwise.

[overthere]

No it's not.

so it is 'yes'?

[eyeball]

Obviously, hence my choice of words in my first reply.

[bush_cheney2004]

Somehow you misread the question, again

I did not ask if Israel needs the right to exist.

I asked "Does Israel HAVE the right to exist"?

Not 1947, but right now today

Looks like a 'no' from you. Or maybe a string of 'buts'. Hard to tell.

Oh, and 'the right to exist' will be in the very first paragraph of any peace agreement in the ME, and will cover a couple of nations. Obviously. It cannot be otherwise.

Just to be clear, I am challenging any such notion. Nation states exist because they have the means to do so....economic....military...cultural. Right now, Israel will attack/bomb any threat to its existence, regardless of any rhetoric about "permission" to exist.

[overthere]

Obviously, hence my choice of words in my first reply.

Your reply started with 'no'.

I'm easily confused.

[overthere]

Just to be clear, I am challenging any such notion. Nation states exist because they have the means to do so....economic....military...cultural. Right now, Israel will attack/bomb any threat to its existence, regardless of any rhetoric about "permission" to exist.

Yes, I get that Israel probably has the means to exist. Weapons, economy, friends. It may not be enough.

It was not the question, and the actual question is not in any way intended to mislead.

But... I see you want to answer 'but'.

Carry on!

[eyeball]

Your reply started with 'no'.

I'm easily confused.

Sorry, I meant no to your suggestion that we poll the Palestinian question later.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, I get that Israel probably has the means to exist. Weapons, economy, friends. It may not be enough.

It was not the question, and the actual question is not in any way intended to mislead.

But... I see you want to answer 'but'.

Carry on!

The question is moot. No nation has the "right to exist". That's just silly....

Edited December 2, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

The question is fraught with politicized semantics.

It would be sillier to say a country has a right to exist. The word nation also means a people which do have a right to exist. A definition of country has more to do with geography. Does a mountain range or a desert have a right to exist?

[bush_cheney2004]

People do not have a right to exist. We abort them all the time !

[eyeball]

So you have no rights?

[bush_cheney2004]

So you have no rights?

Not to "exist". My citizen rights only exist to the extent that they are enforced and protected. See "nation".

I could die from a heart attack today...no "right" to exist ? ...or maybe a cop will shoot me.

Edited December 2, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

No, see country, sans the quotation marks.

[bush_cheney2004]

Accordingly, no nation or country have or has the right to exist. There is no such right...anywhere.

[eyeball]

Maybe not as a given, but they do evolve, eventually to the extent they become facts on the ground. A tough bounce so to speak, for anyone hoping to deny or wish them out of existence.

[bush_cheney2004]

Indeed, and we can conclude that a nation/country can defend its present existence, but it has no inherent right to such an existence.