Surprise! Israel refuses cooperation with UN Gaza war probe

[Bonam]

So it's okay to kill innocent children to bomb a couple of soldiers in the name of Allah, errr wait scratch that, in the name of God?

Nope. It's not okay to do anything in the name of an entity which doesn't exist. On the other hand, it is 100% okay to destroy anyone that is launching rockets at your people.

[eyeball]

It's not their government that's invaded Israel repeatedly. It's not their government that engaged in decades of suicide bombings. And it's not their government that continuously launches rockets at them.

True but it seems to have done a pretty good job of inspiring these things, and they keep on electing it so...they have to assume some responsibility for that too.

Edited December 10, 2014 by eyeball

[Rue]

Israel's existence within the legal, internationally recognized border is not in jeopardy. Only Israel's colonialist activities in the Occupied Territories which includes the theft of Palestinian land is in jeopardy. This is what all of this is about.

No its not. For you to suggest that means you necessarily ignore the actual constitution and goals of Hamas, Intifada Palestine, Palestine Jihad, Fatah, the Al Asqa Martyr Brigade, Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Abbas, Fatah Hawks, Fatah Eagles, ISIL, Iran who each day make it clear they will not internationally recognize Israel's existence unless is stops being Israel as it is today, a Jewish state, and becomes a Muslim Sharia law state that will then form a caliphate with other Muslim caliphates to form a one world Muslim government.

Israel's existence is in jeapoardy everday because as I showed earlier, each day Israel aborts Hamas attacks on its people within Israel.

Your statement is wilful and deliberate and designed to ignore the actual reality of the world Israelis and Palestinians live in and replace it with your blind dogma what is not allowed to admit on this forum in the scripts it is given that Hamas is at war with Israel.

[Rue]

When is Amnesty issuing Volume Two of that report, when they comment on shooting thousands of rockets at Israel?

Actually Amnesty did criticize Hamas equally but the point is Big Guy will only point out what Israel does that is wrong never what Hamas does. In his world you come on this forum and only criticize Israel and engage in the fantasy that it operates in a vacuum and its infractions did not come in response what Hamas was doing and that what Hamas was doing was deliberately placing its civilians in harm's way to get them killed to get world sympathy and that in fact failed miserably and the world saw Hamas for what it was a terrorist organization that holds its citizens hostage and debliberately gets them killed as a deliberate attempt to manipulate world sympathy.

Hamas got caught red handed using hospitals, schools, homes as launch pads. Its operatives were filmed shooting rockets from motorcycles that would then deliebrately drive next to hospitals and schools to attract return fire at those hospitals and schools.

Has got caught red handed claiming it was engaging in peace talks while at the very same time was sending operatives through tunnels into Israel proper to try kill civilians.

That's the part Big Guy skips over conveniently. He's not here to discuss what happened in terms of there being more than one party fighting.

[Rue]

So what if they don't accept Israel as a state?

There is a difference between Israel's legal borders and the land that they are annexing.

No the constitutions of Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Jihad, Palestinian Intifada, the Palestinian Front For the Liberation of Palestine, Fatah, Al Asqa Martyr Brigade, Fatah Hawks, Fatah Eagles, ISIL, Al Quaeda make it perfectly clear there is no difference and that a war is to be waged until all of what is Israel today is turned into a Muslim caliphate.

You can join your entourage denying this fact and what is being denied but the words and positions of these groups are public domain, they are crystal clear NO Israel as a Jewish state can exist ever, and that they will remain at war until its removed and turned into a Muslim state.

Your denial of what they deny won't make their denial go away.

[Rue]

....you are extremely ignorant and need to first educate yourself, or you are purposely trying to push a false narrative.

Your personal attacks and name calling when you disagree with what someone responds to you, speaks for itself. It shows you have no position and you come on this board to insult people and try pass your insults off as response.

Discuss the topic. Knock off the insults.

[Rue]

Why are you so worried about the existence of a country that already exists but fail to recognize that Israel is stealing land from the Palestinians who don't have a state and have a right to have a nation as well?

Coming from your question has zero credibility. You are on record as stating a Jewish Israel must be wiped out like cancer. You equate Jews who wish to live as Israelis as cancer cells in need of being radiated.

You are in no position to question anyone else on their beliefs as to sufferage of Palestinians when you call for the wiping out of Jews as Israeli citizens necessarily because of your reference to Zionism.

No you don't come on this forum and push one state for Palestine while denying another for Israel and then in the next breath tell someone else what they don't recognize. You have zero credibility. Zero.

Until you can come on this board and state Israel's Jews have an equal right to a Jewish state as Palestinians do to a Muslim state, you lack any credibility-your words clearly are inconsistent in demanding one thing for Palestinians but another for Jews.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

So it's okay to kill innocent children to bomb a couple of soldiers in the name of Allah, errr wait scratch that, in the name of God?

The reality is about 70% of the people killed on both sides are innocent. So how about we, in the western world, stop supporting a religious war on both sides?

Your question is defective. Its never o.k. to kill children. Your question though supposes that only innocent Palestinian children are endangered in this conflict. Innocent Israeli children are just as threatened.

This is why I agree with you when you then stated, most peopl;e on both sides are innocent. Let's not put a number on their amount but hey maybe its even higher and you know what, I totally agree with you that using religion to justify any killing is bullshit.

Where we do not agree and I would not respond if I did not care what you think, what I disagree with you over is the fact you do not think Israel has the right to protect its people from Hamas. It has a moral obligation to and it tried its best to avoid killing innocent Palestinians-Palestinians in Gaza interviewed even said so and openly criticized Hamas and were shot dead for so saying.

Bottom line is, no one wins in any war. Its a failure of humans to think and act rationally. No Israeli is sitting their cheering on death and neither are Palestinains-Hamas though is and you should read their charter-they deliberately believe in using violence and death to achieve their goal of a world Muslim government.

Read their constitution. Unlike you I lived side by side them. I know them. I worked with some of them. They did not all start off believers in violence. Many left Hamas when it embraced violence. A lot of what you see is a form of Hamas that came in from Syria and killed off the non terrorist Hamas. Today's Hamas is not the Hamas of 30 years ago.

Today's Fatah is not the Fatah of 30 years ago. Things have changed. The Fedayeen as they were called would not have done certain things Hamas or PFLP or Intifada or Jihad or Hezbollah will do today.

[Rue]

True but it seems to have done a pretty good job of inspiring these things, and they keep on electing it so...they have to assume some responsibility for that too.

Your blaming Israel for Hamas attacking it is illogical.

Its typical though of your position. You blame Israel for existing.

Brilliant logic.

Your inference that Hamas only attacks and engages in its terrorism when Israel attacks is a crock. The preponderance of evidence that continues each day and listed on this board makes it clear Hamas initiates attacks it does not react to attacks.

Your take is no different then responding with, "no you started it"...or better still-"you started it by insisting on being Jewish..."

Brilliant logic.

Go back and look at the litany of Hamas attacks. No they did not start in the name of protecting Palestinians. They began using Palestinians to justify the Hamas agenda. Their own words make that clear. It prohibits peace. It accuses their own people of deserving death if they live peacefully side by side Israel.

Read their bloody constitution and stop denying what they stand for.

[PrimeNumber]

Your question is defective. Its never o.k. to kill children. Your question though supposes that only innocent Palestinian children are endangered in this conflict. Innocent Israeli children are just as threatened.

In my question I never supposed only innocent Palestinian children are endangered. I mentioned Allah and God for that very reason.

[guyser]

No its not. For you to suggest that means you necessarily ignore the actual constitution and goals of Hamas, Intifada Palestine, Palestine Jihad, Fatah, the Al Asqa Martyr Brigade, Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Abbas, Fatah Hawks, Fatah Eagles, ISIL, Iran who each day make it clear they will not internationally recognize Israel's existence unless is stops being Israel as it is today, a Jewish state, and becomes a Muslim Sharia law state that will then form a caliphate with other Muslim caliphates to form a one world Muslim government.

Al Queda wants to destroy America.

Who cares? It exists already. Like Israel exists already.

[guyser]

Your personal attacks and name calling when you disagree with what someone responds to you, speaks for itself. It shows you have no position and you come on this board to insult people and try pass your insults off as response.

Discuss the topic. Knock off the insults.

Hmm.....seems someone needs to look in a mirror. Oh and by the way, still waiting for an apology.

the victimhood and the Daddy is dead card. Got it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Guyser2

[jbg]

Are you saying they should kill 55 Palestinians going about their business for every one Israeli that has died going about their business?

With your logic I wonder how many Americans and Canadians we should be allowing middle eastern governments to kill for innocents accidentally or intentionally bombed in those countries. It would be an "appropriate response" right?

When Hamas brands Gaza's "business" as war what's wrong with Israel's approach?

[PrimeNumber]

When Hamas brands Gaza's "business" as war what's wrong with Israel's approach?

They're both wrong but why does the right wing in North America have such a hard time admitting that? Or does their hatred for Muslims cloud that judgment?

[eyeball]

Your blaming Israel for Hamas attacking it is illogical.

That's not what I did though.

[marcus]

No its not. For you to suggest that means you necessarily ignore the actual constitution and goals of Hamas, Intifada Palestine, Palestine Jihad, Fatah, the Al Asqa Martyr Brigade, Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Abbas, Fatah Hawks, Fatah Eagles, ISIL, Iran who each day

The Palestinian papers which were leaked in 2011, show what Abbas was willing to give up in the negotiations with Israel/US. They show the real story. The concessions included key settlements, with concessions on refugees and Holy sites.

Hamas leader, Haniyeh, has said a few times that they would accept the 1967 border.

Israel is not interested in this. Israel and its hawkish, rightwing Zionist supporters want to continue playing the victim card and they want to continue to drown the truth, which is that Israel wants to continue to steal more land and to never allow a Palestinian State to be formed.

This is not about Israel's right to exist or its legal borders. Israel has nothing to worry about in regards to that. This is about Israel trying to squash the resistance they are facing in stealing more Palestinian land and their goal to never allow a real, viable Palestinian state to be formed.

[Big Guy]

More illegal settlements and more trouble. Looks like more bad press for Israel and criticism of the way they are dealing with the Palestinians;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/palestinians-mourn-slain-minister-20141211114125593909.html

A Palestinian minister is killed by Israelis during a protests against new settlements.

Other update - Israeli public relations in an attempt to gain world sympathy appears to be failing;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/12/irish-mps-call-recognition-palestine-201412119025916716.html

Irish MP's have urged their government to recognise Palestine as a state in a symbolic motion that sailed through parliament unopposed.

Looks to me like it is time for Canada to look very closely at our current relationship with Israel. I would like to see this as an issue during our next election.

[Rue]

Al Queda wants to destroy America.

Who cares? It exists already. Like Israel exists already.

When you ask who cares, you in fact are stating you do not care. Who cares? Only someone living in a sheltered, privileged environment would ask such a question. The people who care are the people attacked by terrorists. Clearly you can't possiblty perceive of that possibility. In your world since you live in Mama's basement with all your meals served, why would you care right? Is that the question?

[Rue]

They're both wrong but why does the right wing in North America have such a hard time admitting that? Or does their hatred for Muslims cloud that judgment?

Its got nothing to do with Muslims and everything to do with Muslims. If those Muslims are terrorists and use their religion as the pretext for their terrorism then it matters. If they are peaceful moderate Muslims then it does not matter. Why you have a hard time with that is interesting. How about you now go back to reading the litanty of piss on Israel, Israel is long the pr war posts that clearly show how this forum is used when discussing the Middle East. There is no discussion about both sides being wrong, its an exercise in pissing on Israel, with limited, rigid, name calling that does not discuss both sides of the conflict.

[guyser]

When you ask who cares, you in fact are stating you do not care.

Horrible deducement, yet par for the course.

Who cares if any of those terror groups dont recognize anything. They still have to deal with them, they still have to find a way for peace.

I dont recognize Ottawa is our capital. Thus I guess it means it doesnt exist?

LOL!

Who cares? Only someone living in a sheltered, privileged environment would ask such a question. In your world since you live in Mama's basement with all your meals served, why would you care right? Is that the question?

No thats not the question , I make almost all my own meals.

Whhhhhhhyyyyyyy are you trying to bait me and insult me all the time. Waaaaaaaa............

[PrimeNumber]

Its got nothing to do with Muslims and everything to do with Muslims. If those Muslims are terrorists and use their religion as the pretext for their terrorism then it matters. If they are peaceful moderate Muslims then it does not matter. Why you have a hard time with that is interesting. How about you now go back to reading the litanty of piss on Israel, Israel is long the pr war posts that clearly show how this forum is used when discussing the Middle East. There is no discussion about both sides being wrong, its an exercise in pissing on Israel, with limited, rigid, name calling that does not discuss both sides of the conflict.

It's got everything to do with Muslims and Jews and Israels refusal to accept Palestine as a state. I do not have a hard time with it, in fact that is the very fact I am trying to relate to you. Your refusal to accept that is what is really interesting. I've read litany of piss on Israel by Palestine and litany of piss on Palestine by Israel the fact of the matter is I am not biased in my opinion on the matter, like you. I realize that both sides need to figure shit out peacefully and neither is trying very hard to make that happen. A two-state or three-state deal is the only way this can end. The facts of who isn't letting that happen are very well known.

It just seems like its an exercise in pissing on Israel because you constantly defend everything anyone has to say about them, you are in fact very biased in your opinion. Yet when anyone says anything about Palestine you are very quick to jump in on it and in fact elaborate as much as possible on it.

[Rue]

It's got everything to do with Muslims and Jews and Israels refusal to accept Palestine as a state.

The above is a one sided rendition of the conflict and is false. Israel has never refused to recognize a Palestinian state. It has continually offered to recognize one. What it asks for is the same recognition back as a Jewish state just as the Palestinian state is defined as a Sharia state.

The Palestinians have stated they will never ever accept a Jewish state and attaches to the condition of recognizing Israel that it become Muslim and take back any Muslim who claims to be Palestinian and offer them not just automatic citzenship but land rights of existing land owned by Jewish Israelis.

Interesting you skipped all that.

Now when you stated in your response to me:

"Yet when anyone says anything about Palestine you are very quick to jump in on it and in fact elaborate as much as possible on it."

If someone says something about Palestine that is one sided as you have, I challenge it and yes thank you unlike you or the entourage of anti Israel posters on this forum you bet I elaborate. Its called backing my position. I don't just spew out a subjective opinion. I explain it.

You don't have to read it but this is a debate forum, if you believe its juust a site to spew out subjective piss on Israel comments, be my guest piss on Israel, and I have the right to debate your piss on Israel comments. Its how it works. We are not in Syria or Iran where you call out your interpretation of the Koran and no one is allowed to question it.

We call this in Canada, debating.

[Hudson Jones]

You are on record as stating a Jewish Israel must be wiped out like cancer.

Oops. You have lied again and will be reported.

[Rue]

Oops. You have lied again and will be reported.

. Your statement that Zionism is a cancer to be wiped out necessarily means wiping out the Jewish nature of Israel as I stated.

Hudson stop trying to bait me and talk about the thread

Edited December 12, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

That's not what I did though.

You stated the above after I challenged you for blaming Israel for attacks on it,

I based my challenge on these words you responded to Bonam with:

"True but it seems to have done a pretty good job of inspiring these things, and they keep on electing it so...they have to assume some responsibility for that too.

The above words from you were in response to these words from Bonam:

“It's not their government that's invaded Israel repeatedly. It's not their government that engaged in decades of suicide bombings. And it's not their government that continuously launches rockets at them.”