On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I think you're missing the fact that Bonam said "barely human". Seriously though, I think the point is; you don't reach that high of level in politics without having a certain personality type accompanied by some very thick skin. These women in politics are not meek wallflowers afraid of they boss, they're not affected by personal comments toward them or their families - otherwise they would never have made it to where they are. Politicians are "A' types with huge ego's. I know it's popular to tow the "helpless woman" line, but don't be fooled these people are almost reptilian. Not even worth a reply! Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Whether she likes to wear mini skirts or how many sex partners she has had in her life are not at all relevant. Again, it goes to her credibility in regards to the situation and what actually transpired. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Oh, you think Jian Ghomeshi can't afford a pretty good lawyer? Or how about Bill Cosby? And BTW, if I'm the accused I don't have to say anything. It's her word against my lawyers. A ) you have a right to face your accuser. B ) you have the right to retain counsel. Again, why do you dislike justice? Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 How many who rape and assault walk free because they're never accused versus the wrongful convictions? You going to provide stats for that yet or are you still in the business of making things up that sound good to you? So what should we do to change that. The reality is, if anything is to be done, these women have to come forward. At the same time the rights of the accused have to continue to be protected. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 A ) you have a right to face your accuser. B ) you have the right to retain counsel. Again, why do you dislike justice? Is it really so hard to see how the system is stacked against the victims in these cases? That doesn't mean I think we should change it all willy-nilly or make the accused guilty until proven innocent. But you're really missing the point here. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Is it really so hard to see how the system is stacked against the victims in these cases? If someone is wrongfully accused as is the case too many times with rape, who's the victim in that case? There's a reason that the laws are designed the way that they are. If you were wronged, you must come forward and the evidence must be convincing. That shouldn't change no matter our feelings about particular situations. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 A ) you have a right to face your accuser. B ) you have the right to retain counsel. Again, why do you dislike justice? Justice is exactly what I'm hoping comes out of this whole mess. Why do you ignore there is a mess? Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) If someone is wrongfully accused as is the case too many times with rape How many times? Seriously, how often do I have to ask this? Edited November 22, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
Big Guy Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I believe in equal gender rights; Equal pay for equal work, equal treatment in the workplace and equal treatment before the law. I do not think that you can expect special consideration according to sex and then expect equal treatment in all other areas. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 How many times? Seriously, how often do I have to ask this? That is, unfortunately, impossible to determine. One time is too many, but, it's reasonable to assume it happens more than one time, given that it, like rape, has happened at an alarming rate. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) And let me just say that no one deserves to be rape, but, the rape does have to actually occur. If there is any doubt, it isn't proven to have accused, just as with any other crime. Edited November 22, 2014 by Smallc Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's impossible to determine, yet you're going to craft a narrative around all these wrongful convictions and bad accusations.What do you think is more likely with our system? Wrongful convictions or wrongful non-convictions? Quote
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's impossible to determine, yet you're going to craft a narrative around all these wrongful convictions and bad accusations. What do you think is more likely with our system? Wrongful convictions or wrongful non-convictions? I don't know...who should we ask? Oh, lets ask David Milgaard! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I don't know...who should we ask? Oh, lets ask David Milgaard! Ok. Go ask him. After you do get back to me with the numbers instead of your anecdotes. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Ok. Go ask him. After you do get back to me with the numbers instead of your anecdotes. What numbers would be satisfy you? I'm pretty sure you'd lock up men based on reasonable guilt....just to be sure. BTW - That's not an anecdote, that's a real case with a real person who spent 23 years in hell on a wrongful conviction. I guarantee you, his life was way more destroyed than most sexual assault victims. But, you wouldn't care about that - would you? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 I've asked several times already in this thread. Figure it out. While you're at it, go look up the definition of anecdote. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's impossible to determine, yet you're going to craft a narrative around all these wrongful convictions and bad accusations. What do you think is more likely with our system? Wrongful convictions or wrongful non-convictions? And what do you think that we should be trying harder to avoid? Again, there's a reason that the system is as it is. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 It's impossible to determine, yet you're going to craft a narrative around all these wrongful convictions and bad accusations. What do you think is more likely with our system? Wrongful convictions or wrongful non-convictions? Anyway, Smallc, my point is that our system is setup so that it disproportionately creates wrongful non-convictions. This is by design and should stay that way. It's better to have a system where guilty people walk free than one where innocent people are punished for something they didn't do. Now relate this to coming forward with sexual assault or rape claims. It's an ordeal most victims would rather not go through, have little trust in, and would just as soon put the issue behind them and ignore it. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 A wrongful conviction is worse than a non-conviction...every day of the week. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 Anyway, Smallc, my point is that our system is setup so that it disproportionately creates wrongful non-convictions. This is by design and should stay that way. It's better to have a system where guilty people walk free than one where innocent people are punished for something they didn't do. Now relate this to coming forward with sexual assault or rape claims. It's an ordeal most victims would rather not go through, have little trust in, and would just as soon put the issue behind them and ignore it. And at the end of the day, that's a their choice. There's little we can do about it other than attempting to reduce the incidence of assaults. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 What I've said, repeatedly is that we need to start believing victims when they come forward. We are not the courts. The vast majority of people don't make these claims lightly and in fact most people never make the claims and would rather forget the crimes had ever happened. Instead, as you can see from a lot of the posts here, people are ready to just on the victims and bash them, dragging them through the mud while dismissing or shrugging their shoulders at the accused. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 A wrongful conviction is worse than a non-conviction...every day of the week. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Quote
Smallc Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 What I've said, repeatedly is that we need to start believing victims when they come forward. Why? I need proof in pretty much every area of life. Why should this be any different? Quote
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2014 Report Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Why? I need proof in pretty much every area of life. Why should this be any different? If you don't understand why by now, then I give up. Continue giving predators the benefit of the doubt because that's what the courts would do. If you have no compassion for victims, until they prove undeserving of it, then there's not a hell of a lot anyone can do for you. I hope you treat the people in your life better than you treat strangers. Edited November 22, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
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