Composers & Singers

August1991 · October 28, 2014

Burt Bacharach can't sing; Dionne Warwick can't compose music; Hal David can neither sing nor compose but he can put words to music.

This seems obvious to me. Different people are good at different things. Such collaborative efforts are so obvious.

Yet, we are often told that it's better to collaborate (co-operate, trade) with "local people". Why?

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The point of my OP is different. When did this idea start that singers should compose and sing their own songs? Did it start in the 1960s with Bob Dylan? The Beatles? Did Elvis Presley compose the songs that he sang?

Yet nowadays, it seems an important "coolness factor" that a singer is also the composer/lyricist.

Why?

bush_cheney2004 · October 28, 2014

The business of making money has always been cool. Singer-songwriting is first and foremost about the business of publishing, music licensing, and performance rights / royalties.

Composer vs. Lyricist....see Elton John and Bernie Taupin...like this from 1992:

Elton John and Bernie Taupin are due to sign a music publishing deal today in Los Angeles with Warner/Chappell Music that will give them the largest cash advance in music publishing history.

The estimated $39-million, 12-year agreement is more than twice the previous highest advance--the estimated $19 million the same company paid in September to Prince for the right to administer worldwide the songs in his Controversy Music catalogue.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-04/entertainment/ca-1205_1_music-publishing

Edited October 28, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

On Guard for Thee · October 28, 2014

The business of making money has always been cool. Singer-songwriting is first and foremost about the business of publishing, music licensing, and performance rights / royalties.

Composer vs. Lyricist....see Elton John and Bernie Taupin...like this from 1992:

Elton John and Bernie Taupin are due to sign a music publishing deal today in Los Angeles with Warner/Chappell Music that will give them the largest cash advance in music publishing history.

The estimated $39-million, 12-year agreement is more than twice the previous highest advance--the estimated $19 million the same company paid in September to Prince for the right to administer worldwide the songs in his Controversy Music catalogue.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-04/entertainment/ca-1205_1_music-publishing

I bet you listen to a lot of barry manilow don't you? Or maybe pat boone?

Michael Hardner · October 28, 2014

Yet, we are often told that it's better to collaborate (co-operate, trade) with "local people". Why?

Because there has to be some kind of local economy, or the country will decline in every respect.

When did this idea start that singers should compose and sing their own songs?

It's the opposite - when did specialist composers separate themselves from performing ? Creating a song that you sing and perform yourself is natural. To compose music for others, you require a complicated system of music notation as well as a legal system that supports copyright, etc.

I suspect that composition as a separate career (aside from, say, Vivaldi and the gang) happened after the jazz era... tin pan alley

Did it start in the 1960s with Bob Dylan? The Beatles? Did Elvis Presley compose the songs that he sang?

Yet nowadays, it seems an important "coolness factor" that a singer is also the composer/lyricist.

Why?

The coolness factor isn't as you say "nowadays". There are still people who perform only, and the Idol-shows have brought attention to the craft of pure singing. Rhianna is a famous pop singer today, and she has songwriters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhianna_(singer)

HipHop was more of an art form than just performance, and so Missy Elliot, Eminem, Dr. Dre... these people advanced the art form with their writing and also performed the songs.

Mighty AC · October 28, 2014

I think there is a credibility or "coolness factor" when performers pen their own lyrics in some genres of music. However, I think everyone expects pop music to be written, packaged and overproduced by a management team and then just performed by a singer. Max Martin is the most powerful person in pop music and most have never heard of him. He has written and produced over 100 top 10 hits in the US and UK, for acts like Katy Perry, Celine Dione, The Backstreet Boys, N Sync, Kelly Clarkson, Pink, Aerosmith, Avril Lavigne, Taylor Swift, etc.

GostHacked · October 28, 2014

Yet nowadays, it seems an important "coolness factor" that a singer is also the composer/lyricist.

Why?

Most of the generic same sounding artists suffer from not being able to write their own material. But that can be blamed on the record company wanting to make money off the next hit. But with pop music, even if you do write your own lyrics, in many cases it is generic stuff we heard before. How many party songs talk about drinking and getting f'd up on the dance floor? Or break up sad songs, a dime a dozen. But alas that is pop music, not really meaning it is good music.

Mighty AC hints at why this is the case. Max Martin is the force behind many 'artists'. So as a producer his influence will come through more so than the artists. Reason why Def Leppard's two albums, along with Shania Twain and Bryan Adams (waking up the neighbours) all musically sound the same. Same chord structure, same 'sound', same rhythm.

Anyone who works with Puff Daddy will have his influence come through as much as the artist he produces. So really you only have a few behind the scenes making all the pop music for the masses. So, it all does eventually sound the same... and know you know why.

Another thing is if you want to be popular, you will give up some writing control to the producers ect. Pop music is not about quality, it's about the best next hook with the rehashed lyrics that will get you tapping your foot.

The battle between artists wanting to write their own lyrics and letting the producers do it, had been an ongoing constant battle. Only one person I know that did it his way, and only his way was Prince. Warner Bros was the only label that allowed Prince to write, compose, record, arrange and produce his own music. He was going to be doing it that way or not at all. And he still continues to do that to this day. He also just dropped another album. He also produces and writes a lot for other artists, but in many cases one would not know it, as Prince's styles are broad.

Prince also had trouble with WB in the end, and 'Emancipation' was a 3cd shitfest to free himself of WB's obligations. So sometimes a crap album will be released for a reason.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/29/prince-art-official-age-and-plectrumelectrum-review

Rush is another example of a band doing it their way, sticking to their guns and the label caves in. When they recorded 2012, they got told by the label, 'we want more pop music or this is it for you'. So they did what they wanted to spite the label, knowing it could be the last gig. 2012 went on to be one of the best selling albums when it was released and threw Rush onto the international stage. Record labels do not always know what is best or what is good music. Rush is still doing exactly what they want today and the label leaves them to it.

I'd prefer it if singers/artists could write their own lyrics. If they do not, then they are simply a performer and not an artist per se.

guyser · October 28, 2014

Sigh... 2112....2112....not 2012.Apart from that, all good.

GostHacked · October 28, 2014

Sigh... 2112....2112....not 2012.Apart from that, all good.

I'll take the berating on that one. I should have known better.

guyser · October 28, 2014

And I knew you did!

Derek 2.0 · October 29, 2014

Yet nowadays, it seems an important "coolness factor" that a singer is also the composer/lyricist.

Why?

What's old is new again?

With some modern artists as mentioned, could not be they have talent as opposed to the appearance of it? Maybe so........

Edited October 29, 2014 by Derek 2.0

Topaz · October 29, 2014

Would any of you agree that the late 50's to the early 70's were the best years for music and people who were the greatest song writers? Rock&Roll is so bad, they people had to turn to a level of Country Music. Where's all the creative writers now??

Mighty AC · October 30, 2014

Would any of you agree that the late 50's to the early 70's were the best years for music and people who were the greatest song writers? Rock&Roll is so bad, they people had to turn to a level of Country Music. Where's all the creative writers now??

No, I think we just see old music through a rose coloured lens of hits. As time goes on the mediocre filler songs drop away and all we hear are the biggest hits of the era.