Palestinian Unity Government

[jacee]

No one expects Israel to 'collapse', Rue, but to lose international support and credibility due to war crimes in Gaza, aggressive settlements and failure to participate in peace negotiations in good faith.

It is the loss of influence - the psychological effects of BDS - that will succeed.

Its not enough to address the economic effects of a boycott; its vital to address the psychological effects as well, perhaps even more important.

.

Edited March 26, 2015 by jacee

[Big Guy]

The Palestinians are gaining sympathy for their cause. An impartial United Nations report has indicated that the suppression of Palestinians by Israel in continuing and escalating;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/03/report-outlines-devastating-year-palestinians-150326092624937.html

It will be interesting to see what the US reaction will be to the next time the question of recognizing Palestine as a state at the UN.

[jacee]

palestinians-become-member-of-international-criminal-court-

The review will likely focus initially on last year's Gaza conflict. The Palestinians suffered heavy civilian casualties, prompting allegations by some rights groups that Israel committed war crimes. Leaders of Hamas, which rules Gaza, could also face charges because the militant group fired rockets indiscriminately at Israeli civilian areas.

Edited April 1, 2015 by jacee

[Rue]

I never stated anyone expects Israel to collapse Jacee. I was responding to your usual anti Israeli posts.

Get back to me when you discuss Saudi Arabia's bombing of civilians in Yemen, Syria's using has on its civilians, the actions of extremist Sunni and shite extremists on their own civilians.

You have zero credibility.Zero. You only come on the board to focus on one subjective bias. It blinds you clearly to being able to see anything but one thing.

[jacee]

I never stated anyone expects Israel to collapse Jacee. I was responding to your usual anti Israeli posts.

Get back to me when you discuss Saudi Arabia's bombing of civilians in Yemen, Syria's using has on its civilians, the actions of extremist Sunni and shite extremists on their own civilians.

You have zero credibility.Zero. You only come on the board to focus on one subjective bias. It blinds you clearly to being able to see anything but one thing.

And you.

.

[Rue]

So far Jacee all your previous predictions about Israel and war crimes have proven untrue.

I did notice you threw in a reference to Hamas finally.

Legally unless Israel acted unilaterally and not in response to Hamas there can be no findings of war crimes

no matter how much you want that to be.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes....at best it is irony that the Palestinian leadership and Hamas provides complete immunity for Israel with respect to "war crimes" because of their own actions. On second thought, it is not irony....it is the typical stupidity displayed over many decades.

[jacee]

So far Jacee all your previous predictions about Israel and war crimes have proven untrue.

It hasn't gone to court yet.

I did notice you threw in a reference to Hamas finally.

Legally unless Israel acted unilaterally and not in response to Hamas there can be no findings of war crimes

no matter how much you want that to be.

"DISPROPORTIONATE" response will be the issue.

I am glad it will be adjudicated.

.

Edited April 3, 2015 by jacee

[Rue]

It won't be. Its a meaningless word. It can not be proven.

[jacee]

It won't be. Its a meaningless word. It can not be proven.

Hmm ... that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Israel's innocence.

Well I guess we'll see what happens at the ICC.

.

[bush_cheney2004]

"DISPROPORTIONATE" response will be the issue.

Disproportionate response is the objective. Any questions ?

[Rue]

As usual Jacee you try misrepresent my answer and can't grasp the legal issue. Go on do explain how one proves disproportionate response to Hamas. Can't wait. Make sure to provide the case law. Thank you.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Rue

[jacee]

As usual Jacee you try misrepresent my answer and can't grasp the legal issue. Go on do explain how one proves disproportionate response to Hamas. Can't wait. Make sure to provide the case law. Thank you.

I'm not going to try to predict the outcome at the ICC. We will see. I am just glad it will be addressed through proper channels.

However, saying "It can't be proven." is suspiciously evasive.

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by jacee

[jbg]

Very strange how that works. Your entourage has been talking about how the world has turned on Israel for years now on this board but it seems to be managing.

But hey, if McMaster students are boycotting Israel, its just a matter of time until it collapses.

I am surprised you didn't mention Concordia.

Lol.

Do the McMaster students use any hi-tech inventions from Israel?

[jbg]

No one expects Israel to 'collapse', Rue, but to lose international support and credibility due to war crimes in Gaza, aggressive settlements and failure to participate in peace negotiations in good faith.

It is the loss of influence - the psychological effects of BDS - that will succeed.

Its not enough to address the economic effects of a boycott; its vital to address the psychological effects as well, perhaps even more important.

.

As if Israel has much "international support," at least from the solons and chatterers who make that up. The term "international support" and "credibility are terms that are easy to come to the lips or the fingertips (rhyme not intentional). See this post and thread for my thoughts:

Below are examples of quotes referencing the "international community" or "world opinion." These are terms that are easy to come to the lips or the fingertips (rhyme not intentional). There is little or no analysis of what either term means, or what constitutes the "international community" or "world opinion." This has allowed for some extremely weak thought processes and reasoning.The world's population at some time during 2013 was7.125 billion people. I don't think any reputable pollsters are out gauging the opinion of the people of the world on any given topic.

By necessity, the views of the "international community" are taken as the view of the "leaders" of countries, typically at the U.N. level or from statements to the media by the actual heads of state or prime ministers. As anyone listening to the opening speeches at the U.N. General Assembly knows, some of these speeches border on deranged.

As for the opinion of actual people, how would it be influenced if they knew who the donors of foreign aid were? This is a link to a map of donor countries (link). The image itself can be viewed but the link is byond a paywall so I couldn't post it. Would it surprise anyone here that the top ten donor countries are all Western democracies? Is anyone surprised that Israel had the first mobile hospital units (link) on the scenes of the Haiti earthquake and Philippine typhoon?

Would the impoverished people of the world be formulating the view of the "international community" ably expressed below if they were not kept ignorant of these facts? Thoughts?

[jacee]

As if Israel has much "international support," at least from the solons and chatterers who make that up. The term "international support" and "credibility are terms that are easy to come to the lips or the fingertips (rhyme not intentional). See this post and thread for my thoughts:

That's fine jbg. You and Netanyahu can continue pretending that international opinion and support doesn't matter to Israel.

We'll see what kind of negotiated peace agreement that gets you.

.

[Hudson Jones]

I hope the ICC goes after these animals:

Israeli forces open fire on Nabi Saleh weekly protest, injure 6

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Israeli forces opened fire on the Nabi Saleh weekly protest on Friday injuring six Palestinian activists, including two with live rounds, an activist group reported Saturday.

International Solidarity Movement issued a statement stating that the weekly march met "extreme violence" from Israeli forces, with four people shot "in the first five minutes of the protest."

The peaceful protests have increased throughout the years. Israel's violent response to them is one of many examples showing how Israel is not interested in peace and how it's nothing but a fascist state when it comes to those it is occupying.

[jbg]

That's fine jbg. You and Netanyahu can continue pretending that international opinion and support doesn't matter to Israel.

We'll see what kind of negotiated peace agreement that gets you.

.

How do you define "international opinion"?

[jacee]

How do you define "international opinion"?

Still trying to pretend it doesn't matter?

/israel-losing-support-in-uk-ambassador-warns-

[Rue]

Jacee using a court to mask an attempt at political condemnation as a legal argument won't work. The very court you think is set up to make political pronouncements can't prove either Hamas or Israel initiated their conflict or responded incorrectly-the best it can do is say both acted with too much force.

Your desire to simply have Israel punished and singled out is not going to happen. The law is not defined in that manner.

You need to read the international case law on whether force is considered too much or not. That is the issue.Your personally assigning me a Zionist motive of evading responsibility is nice. It once again personalizes the legal issue and makes me a Zionist conspirator but its not the issue. I am not the issue.

How the law defines certain military actions is. You need to read the law and stop assuming it engages in the kind of political rhetoric you want it to.

Now go on, finish what you started. Provide case law that defines excessive force against terrorists by a state. Provide the cases.

They don't exist and there is a reason they do not exist-but please correct me, point them out.

[Rue]

In regards to Israel's reputation, the argument its not popular defines its right to

exist or credibility is hilarious.

Aside from being of course illogical it preaches the tiresome mantra, Israel is poo everyone

says so.

Oh well then. That settles it. Lol.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Rue

[jacee]

Jacee using a court to mask an attempt at political condemnation as a legal argument won't work. The very court you think is set up to make political pronouncements can't prove either Hamas or Israel initiated their conflict or responded incorrectly-the best it can do is say both acted with too much force.

Your desire to simply have Israel punished and singled out is not going to happen. The law is not defined in that manner.

You need to read the international case law on whether force is considered too much or not. That is the issue.

You are welcome to present some.

I'll wait to see what the ICC says.

Your personally assigning me a Zionist motive of evading responsibility is nice. It once again personalizes the legal issue and makes me a Zionist conspirator but its not the issue. I am not the issue.

I don't use the word Zionist. You are conflating me with someone else again I guess. No, you certainly are not the issue.

How the law defines certain military actions is. You need to read the law and stop assuming it engages in the kind of political rhetoric you want it to.

Now go on, finish what you started. Provide case law that defines excessive force against terrorists by a state. Provide the cases.

They don't exist and there is a reason they do not exist-but please correct me, point them out.

Go ahead.

.

[marcus]

The International Court of Justice has ruled that Israel's wall is illegal in many locations, where it has cut deep into Palestinian territory. The ICJ has also ruled that the Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal and contrary to international law.

The punishment can come once there is a resolution in the UN or if countries take the opinion of the courts and apply their own actions towards Israel. The ladder is already happening as many European countries are either refusing to work with Israeli firms who do business in the occupied territories or canceling contracts.

Israel may refuse to follow international law in order to continue the status quo, but other countries have the option of following them. If the Palestinians are able to get themselves heard at the ICC and there is a ruling, Israel will feel the economic pressure even more than they are right now. So this is a good thing for the Palestinians and those who champion justice.

[bush_cheney2004]

Israel may refuse to follow international law in order to continue the status quo, but other countries have the option of following them....

What is the "punishment" ? Why is it optional for other countries ? Is the ICJ still a joke ?

[marcus]

What is the "punishment" ? Why is it optional for other countries ?

The punishment can be arrests of Israeli war criminals once they enter a foreign country. The punishment can also be economic pressure from other countries who respect international law and who refuse to do business with Israel, which is already happening.

Is the ICJ still a joke ?

Only to those with a terrible sense of humour.