jbg Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. Everybody has a right to exist.And what if they're not ready for independence? They have no economy and no plans for an economy. Only plans on how to suck more international aid, to wind up in killing machines or Swiss bank accounts. I do not think that it is Israel's decision if Palestine will exist or not - it will be up to the international community to recognize such a nation - or not.Why is the "international community" so user-friendly to Sudan, North Korea and Iran? From what springs their legitimacy? As I have been saying repeatedly, the Israeli policy on Gaza is completely misdirected. The Israeli policy on new settlements is a mistake and the international community is moving towards a support of Palestine. They are winning the public relations war. That may be a more important war to win than the last few in that area.Do you see any energetic approaches by the Arabs to peace? Israel has been doing things that the USA disagrees with and has warned against. If Israel continues on its current path the USA will have to reassess its financial relationship with Israel. I believe that Canada should be reassessing its relationship with Israel right now. Canadian support of Israel is doing little good for Canada and in fact is causing problems for us. Time for Canada to look elsewhere in the Middle East for an ally.Barack Obama is a joke except he's not funny. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bonam Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) As I have been saying repeatedly, the Israeli policy on Gaza is completely misdirected. How so? Israel pulled all its people out of Gaza and left the governance of the territory to the locals. When it was attacked with weapons, it imposed a partial blockade in order to try to prevent more of these weapons from entering the territory. When rockets are shot at it from the territory, Israel has struck back at the launch sites. None of these policies seem misdirected... perhaps Israel could benefit from better aim in some cases but that's a matter of technology, not policy. Edited January 1, 2015 by Bonam Quote
jbg Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 How so? Israel pulled all its people out of Gaza and left the governance of the territory to the locals. When it was attacked with weapons, it imposed a partial blockade in order to try to prevent more of these weapons from entering the territory. When rockets are shot at it from the territory, Israel has struck back at the launch sites. None of these policies seem misdirected... perhaps Israel could benefit from better aim in some cases but that's a matter of technology, not policy.The point that those kinds of posts are trying to make is that Israel should not exist as a Jewish state. One minute they suggest return to the 1967 borders witha a few minor adjustmemnts and leaving Jerusalem in Israeli hands. That was almost agreed upon in 2000. At that point Arafta demanded a "right of return" that would have quickly flooded Israel withenough refusgess to tip the demographic edge towards the Arabs and end any thought of it being a Jewish state. Even before the demographics changed the pverty of those immigrants would have created budget-busting social service needs. Israel's only "misguided" action is existing. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Big Guy Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 Everything posted here is based on some factual evidence and then an opinion based on that evidence. That is why people have different opinions. I try to look objectively (what I consider to be objective) at an event and anticipate the consequences of it as related to Canada. Canada is a priority for me. Those who disagree can call it spin, I call it material to discuss. Also, I look at the Middle East happenings as to what I think is best for Canada. Others here appear to interpret things as to what is best for Israel. Good for them. I look at Israel the same as Greece, Germany, Iran etc. nations which do things that are the best for them - as it should be - not necessarily best for Canada. I believe that the Israeli policy on Gaza is a mistake, that latest invasion was a mistake and the building of new settlements (which have been criticized by the USA and the rest of the world) is a mistake. Canada has put all its Middle East eggs into the Israeli basket - and I think that is a mistake. It looks to me like Netanyahu will continue to do things which he feels are the best for an expanded Israel. Good for him. He is prepared to thumb his nose at the rest of the world. For Canada to continue to support Israel as it continues to make more enemies in the world is a mistake. We should not be associated with Israeli policies. We should be looking out for what is best for Canada. What I think is best for Canada is to cut Israel loose to continue doing its own thing for its own benefit and look for other allies in that region for our own benefit. We need to have our own foreign policy for the Middle East not a "me too Israel" policy which we appear to now follow. At this point in time I think Iran is the future power there and I believe we should be in communication and negotiation with the Iranians. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 The facts are that Canada has increased support for Israel. The facts are that Canada is currently bombing Israel's enemies. The facts are that Canada wants to expand an existing free trade agreement with Israel. The facts are that wishing for a change in U.S. foreign policy is not a self-determined Canadian policy. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Israel retaliates in an unrelated and unjustified manner: israel-withholds-tax-revenues-from-palestinian-authority-as-dispute-escalates JERUSALEM The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated. The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Israel retaliates in an unrelated and unjustified manner: israel-withholds-tax-revenues-from-palestinian-authority-as-dispute-escalates JERUSALEM The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated. The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague. What do they expect? War is war. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
WestCoastRunner Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Israel retaliates in an unrelated and unjustified manner: israel-withholds-tax-revenues-from-palestinian-authority-as-dispute-escalates JERUSALEM The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated. The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Israel retaliates in an unrelated and unjustified manner: israel-withholds-tax-revenues-from-palestinian-authority-as-dispute-escalates JERUSALEM The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated. The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Sounds like simple blackmail to me. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Big Guy Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Posted January 4, 2015 It would be interesting then if the USA withheld its $3 billion in annual military aid because Israel continues to build settlements when told to stop by the USA and the rest of the world. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 It would be interesting then if the USA withheld its $3 billion in annual military aid because Israel continues to build settlements when told to stop by the USA and the rest of the world. The "rest of the world" has no say in the matter. The US Congress will continue to support Israel at current levels, regardless of expanded settlements. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Big Guy Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Posted January 4, 2015 How can Israel excuse and rationalize withholding funds belonging to the Palestinians because the Palestinians dare to exercise their right to apply to join the ICC? If the Palestinians do not qualify to be members then the ICC will make that decision. The Palestinians do not need the permission of the USA or Israel to exercise their national rights. And posters here wonder why the Palestinians are winning the war of world opinion. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) How can Israel excuse and rationalize withholding funds belonging to the Palestinians because the Palestinians dare to exercise their right to apply to join the ICC? Actions have consequences. If the PA makes a decision not to work with Israel those consequences can be real and severe. Would the Allies have won WW II if they fought with both hands tied behind their back? And posters here wonder why the Palestinians are winning the war of world opinion. For your answer, see this thread (link). The recourse to the mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning. Edited January 4, 2015 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 What do they expect? War is war. There is no legal war. And this is no legal retaliation. It's disgusting. The more Israel makes itself look bad, the more Palestinians look good in the eyes of the world, pursuing independence through legal means. . Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 There is no legal war. They've been in a state of declared war (except Egypt and Jordan) since 1948. And this is no legal retaliation. It may have been a response to the Palestinian Authority attempting a creeping unilateral declaration of indedepence (UDI). If they go that route the Israelis would be within their rights to stop all transit accross their borders to the PA. Let the PA resupply throiugh Jordan, using Arab funds. It's disgusting. If you're referring to the double standard applied to Israel it sure is. The more Israel makes itself look bad, the more Palestinians look good in the eyes of the world, pursuing independence through legal means. For your answer, see this thread (link). The recourse to the mantra of "eyes of the world" betrays flabby and weak reasoning. As far as "independence through legal means" they had that chance in 1948. Israel accepted U.N. partition; the Arabs did not. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Sounds like simple blackmail to me. It's theft too, since the funds belong to Palestinians. . Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 It's theft too, since the funds belong to Palestinians. . As long as the funds are held in trust Israel does not have to fund a death struggle against it. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bob Macadoo Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Israel retaliates in an unrelated and unjustified manner:israel-withholds-tax-revenues-from-palestinian-authority-as-dispute-escalates JERUSALEM The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated. The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Can someone explain to me is this taxation of revenue in the West Bank using Israeli Revenue Agency or taxation of Palestinian income in Israel? If its the former......sue.....if its the latter.......don't work there. Quote
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 They've been in a state of declared war (except Egypt and Jordan) since 1948. It may have been a response to the Palestinian Authority attempting a creeping unilateral declaration of indedepence (UDI). If they go that route the Israelis would be within their rights to stop all transit accross their borders to the PA. Let the PA resupply throiugh Jordan, using Arab funds. Oh that'll make Israel look good. If you're referring to the double standard applied to Israel it sure is.No I was referring to Israel's theft of Palestinian funds. For your answer, see this thread (link). The recourse to the mantra of "eyes of the world" betrays flabby and weak reasoning. As far as "independence through legal means" they had that chance in 1948. Israel accepted U.N. partition; the Arabs did not.So they can't have it now?And if they try we'll steal their money and starve them? How mature. . Quote
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 As long as the funds are held in trust Israel does not have to fund a death struggle against it. A death struggle? How dramatic. Pursuing legal statehood for Palestine is not a death warrant for Israel. . Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 And if they try we'll steal their money and starve them? How mature. . A death struggle? How dramatic. Pursuing legal statehood for Palestine is not a death warrant for Israel. . Maybe the Palestinians need to formally end their state of belligerance, in Arabic as well as in English. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Maybe the Palestinians need to formally end their state of belligerance, in Arabic as well as in English. Oh that's helpful. . Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Oh that's helpful. . Why not? Because it subverts your notion of Israel's duty to surrender unilaterally? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Why not? Because it subverts your notion of Israel's duty to surrender unilaterally? Surrender what? Quote
Rue Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 1-surrender its right to be a Jewish state. 2-surrender its right to defend itself against Hamas, Fatah or any other terrorist organization or nation that remains in a declared state of war with Israel and refuses to recognize its right to live in peace as a Jewish state. Did you really need that clarified? Quote
Big Guy Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Posted January 4, 2015 I have no intention to try to convince either RUE (Sorry, I no longer read your longer responses - it takes too long) or jbg of my position on Israel. I have no dog in that fight. Personally, my sentiments are with the oppressed and I see the Palestinians in the Middle East (and especially Gaza) as the oppressed and the Israelis as the oppressors. When I read about another oppressive move then I post it. The Americans have their foreign policy - Canada should have its own. By supporting Israel, we are supporting its actions in the region and its treatment of the Palestinians. I do not support those actions or that treatment. I believe that it is in the interests of Canadians that we disassociate ourselves from Israeli and its policies which I feel are aggressive and oppressive. Canada does need to maintain some influence in the Middle East but I feel that can be created with opening a dialogue and negotiations with Iran. I have no doubt that Israel will continue its aggressive actions in the Middle East and that is its right. It will enjoy the benefits of that policy and/or consequences of those actions. I also think that Canada should have nothing to do with those actions. That is our right. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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