Social Justice Rap and Public Education

[eyeball]

Yes, but Marxism is not one of those things.

Like I said there's always homeschooling.

[Hal 9000]

Like I said there's always homeschooling.

The fact that so many people are in favour of this is scary. Do people even understand at all how Stalin, Hitler, Chairman Mao convinced the people to give up all power? Social Justice is at the heart of it all. Have you read anything from Marx, How about Orwell or Bradbury. This has all happened before and it never ends well.

[cybercoma]

You know far more on PROBABLY every topic? Beyond that, I have a hard time understanding run-on gibberish. Learn to write before responding to me.

It's simple. You assume I read every topic you post about. I don't because the things you write are usually a waste of my time. So I wrote "probably" because I can't be bothered reading all of your posts to know if there's ever a shimmer of hope in any of them. Edited October 1, 2014 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

This is turning into tit-for-tat insults - please move on.

[Hal 9000]

It's simple. You assume I read every topic you post about. I don't because the things you write are usually a waste of my time. So I wrote "probably" because I can't be bothered reading all of your posts to know if there's ever a shimmer of hope in any of them.

One thing I'll give Socialist is that he knows his Marxism. Unlike you and some other people here, he at least knows that social justice and political correctness are the hooks that drag you into Marxism.

[guyser]

Unlike you and some other people here, he at least knows that social justice and political correctness are the hooks that drag you into Marxism.

Horse pucky.

No one is promoting Marxism, thats just a rube you throw out . The folks here are promoting a just society by injustice and valuing diversity

[Hal 9000]

Horse pucky.

No one is promoting Marxism, thats just a rube you throw out . The folks here are promoting a just society by injustice and valuing diversity

Of course you don't believe it! Just have a look at history, it's all there!

[cybercoma]

One thing I'll give Socialist is that he knows his Marxism. Unlike you and some other people here, he at least knows that social justice and political correctness are the hooks that drag you into Marxism.

Then you have no idea what Marxism is. There are no hooks that pull you into Marxism, other than revolution. Social justice and political correctness have absolutely nothing to do with Marxism and appear nowhere in Marx's texts. I mean, you've read Marx's work, right? You actually know what you're criticizing, right?

[guyser]

Of course you don't believe it! Just have a look at history, it's all there!

Pretty much confirms you havent a clue what you are talking about.

[Hal 9000]

Then you have no idea what Marxism is. There are no hooks that pull you into Marxism, other than revolution. Social justice and political correctness have absolutely nothing to do with Marxism and appear nowhere in Marx's texts. I mean, you've read Marx's work, right? You actually know what you're criticizing, right?

You can't be serious! Everything from political correctness to social justice has been planned and predicted.

You'll go along with it as long as you can deny that your being taken it. The next step for you is to call me intolerant and hateful - so, go on, let me have it.

[socialist]

You can't be serious! Everything from political correctness to social justice has been planned and predicted.

You'll go along with it as long as you can deny that your being taken it. The next step for you is to call me intolerant and hateful - so, go on, let me have it.

I actually agree with Hal here. If you read the Communist Manifesto you will see many parallels to social justice. A society where we are all equal. A society where privatization doesn't oppress people. Many people don't understand Marxism. It has been given a bad name by neo-liberals so they can continue to privatize all that they can.

The Public education establishment stands up against all the neo-liberal ideals that are slowly permeating society.

[socialist]

I will say that socialism is on the rise. Look at the hundred of thousands of people who marched in New York for the planet. It's ironic that capitalistic greed and pollution is leading us to a need for world wide socialism to initiate climate justice.

Michael Hardner, do you agree?

[overthere]

I will say that socialism is on the rise. Look at the hundred of thousands of people who marched in New York for the planet. It's ironic that capitalistic greed and pollution is leading us to a need for world wide socialism to initiate climate justice.

Michael Hardner, do you agree?

That is an overly familiar form of address. He prefers Brother Hardner or Comrade.

[socialist]

That is an overly familiar form of address. He prefers Brother Hardner or Comrade.

MIchael Hardner is an astute member of this forum. he understands social justice, unlike many fools here.

Edited October 1, 2014 by socialist

[eyeball]

The fact that so many people are in favour of this is scary. Do people even understand at all how Stalin, Hitler, Chairman Mao convinced the people to give up all power? Social Justice is at the heart of it all. Have you read anything from Marx, How about Orwell or Bradbury. This has all happened before and it never ends well.

Hold on now, what on Earth makes you think capitalism won't or shouldn't be in the curriculum too, as it should be? All I'm saying is that I see little reason why societal values can't or shouldn't be included in what we teach kids in public school.

As for teaching kids about how antisocial concentrating power into fewer and fewer hands is, I'm with you 100%. I would definitely say teaching kids about freedom, liberty, justice, democracy, human rights etc is the best insurance we have against a government being able to convince people they should give it more authority.

[Michael Hardner]

You don't need to call me out in your discussion.

[Big Guy]

Hold on now, what on Earth makes you think capitalism won't or shouldn't be in the curriculum too, as it should be? All I'm saying is that I see little reason why societal values can't or shouldn't be included in what we teach kids in public school.

As for teaching kids about how antisocial concentrating power into fewer and fewer hands is, I'm with you 100%. I would definitely say teaching kids about freedom, liberty, justice, democracy, human rights etc is the best insurance we have against a government being able to convince people they should give it more authority.

If the youngster is given the true facts of history, then he/she is able to make up their own minds based on the historical result of such societal organizations. The history of Britain, the process and evolution of establishing a Magna Carta shows how humans react to different forms of govenance. The long term success of a dictatorship has many historical precedence from ancient Rome to recent Germany.

I suggest that the dry factual result of the success and failures of different societal organizations can be understood with the study of history. Human nature has not, does not and will not change. A study of history will show the result of different societal structures.

If we do not learn from the past then we learn nothing.

[Hal 9000]

Hold on now, what on Earth makes you think capitalism won't or shouldn't be in the curriculum too, as it should be? All I'm saying is that I see little reason why societal values can't or shouldn't be included in what we teach kids in public school.

As for teaching kids about how antisocial concentrating power into fewer and fewer hands is, I'm with you 100%. I would definitely say teaching kids about freedom, liberty, justice, democracy, human rights etc is the best insurance we have against a government being able to convince people they should give it more authority.

In high school I learned about Capitalism, socialism, communism...and most of the other ...ism's. Social Justice is so far away from capitalism, kids will hear nothing good about it...nothing! Capitalism is their target! A curriculum based on social justice, will not be about "what it is", it's about "what you should do to become a good social justice warrior".

P.S - Adolf Hitler was a social justice warrior too and implemented the ideology into 1930's and 40's Germany.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Hal 9000

[Michael Hardner]

So conservatism AND capitalism are the opposite of justice now ?

[Michael Hardner]

Really, binary views of the world are so dull. Canada, Sweden, New Zealand are all wonderful places to live, probably the best in history. All are capitalist societies. And conservatism is relative to the times. We have a Conservative government where many cabinet members voted for transgender rights in Canada.

Social justice is part of every party's agenda, feminism is part of our society - there is nothing to fight about here. These are good ideas that have taken root in our free, open, and capitalistic societies.

If you want to continue arguing like it's 1917, go ahead, but those fights were settled long ago. If there were anything substantive in such fights, then governments would be looking to change the curricula of the schools but there isn't.

As I said, if you want to change how things are done - give feedback to those in power. Nobody seems to be talking about changing things, though, so I guess the status quo is probably just fine.

[cybercoma]

Well, some people are talking about changing things, but they almost exclusively seem to be anonymous internet commentators.

[Bonam]

So conservatism AND capitalism are the opposite of justice now ?

You missed the key word here. Social justice has absolutely nothing to do with justice.

[Michael Hardner]

You missed the key word here. Social justice has absolutely nothing to do with justice.

Let's examine this:

Social justice is "justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

Canada has progressive taxation, subsidized university, and is (arguably) a society with more opportunity and also a favourable business climate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#List

Social justice is not only helpful in a capitalist society, but essential in that it creates a meritocracy where those with the greatest ability can succeed. It also has other benefits, such as creating healthy domestic markets, and sustaining political stability and civic engagement. This becomes important in times of change and challenge such as now.

Social justice is a difficult thing to maintain, but an essential part of a capitalist society where power can otherwise accumulate and protect itself against change (and improvement).

[Hal 9000]

Let's examine this:

Social justice is "justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

Canada has progressive taxation, subsidized university, and is (arguably) a society with more opportunity and also a favourable business climate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#List

Social justice is not only helpful in a capitalist society, but essential in that it creates a meritocracy where those with the greatest ability can succeed. It also has other benefits, such as creating healthy domestic markets, and sustaining political stability and civic engagement. This becomes important in times of change and challenge such as now.

Social justice is a difficult thing to maintain, but an essential part of a capitalist society where power can otherwise accumulate and protect itself against change (and improvement).

I don't know, Cuba seems to be maintaining it well. A few issues in Venezuela , but they'll take care of that...one way or another.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't know, Cuba seems to be maintaining it well.

I gave you a serious response. If you want to say something silly and run away, then that's fine too.