-1=e^ipi Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 China's emissions per capita have now exceeded that of the EU. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29239194 Does this change how 'climate change negotiations' should take place? Or are the alarmists still motivated by some bizarre western guilt complex? Quote
Topaz Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 As I said before, if countries start coming down on China and India about their high emissions, those countries could have their corporations kick out of those countries, which would be a good thing for the workers in North America. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 CO2 emissions per capita tells a different story: Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
-1=e^ipi Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 CO2 emissions per capita tells a different story: Uhh, I was refering to CO2 emissions per capita... Quote
Guest Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 CO2 emissions per capita tells a different story: The graph doesn't compare China to the EU as a whole... Quote
eyeball Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) China's emissions per capita have now exceeded that of the EU. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29239194 Does this change how 'climate change negotiations' should take place? Or are the alarmists still motivated by some bizarre western guilt complex? The only guilty westerners are the fools who think trucking and trading with a country ruled by communist oligarchs is a good idea. I was called a right-wing whack-job for expressing this sentiment when the Liberals turned down this cul-de-sac, now I'm called a commie by Conservatives eager to put the pedal to the metal. Now I'm an alarmist. Edited September 21, 2014 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 The graph doesn't compare China to the EU as a whole... Nor should it....the EU is not a nation. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 No, but that's what the OP does. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 No, but that's what the OP does. Of course...for reasons that are obvious. Many EU economies are just now coming out of the tank. This is the same game that Europe played for the Kyoto baseline emissions targets. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 Or are the alarmists still motivated by some bizarre western guilt complex? Yes. They will tell you it's all about "historical net emissions" or some such. Quote
waldo Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 Does this change how 'climate change negotiations' should take place? how are they taking place... what's your reference point that you're measuring the "should" against? Or are the alarmists still motivated by some bizarre western guilt complex? who are your "alarmists" that you're speaking to? Explain that motivation you claim existed. by the by, do you attribute any of that China emissions total (or per capita number) to developed countries outsourcing emissions to China... and if you do, how much of it do you so attribute? Quote
Topaz Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Speaking of e-missions, today the Harper government has decided to go after the auto industry and bring in federal vehicle e-missions regulations As if we don't have enough, money grabbing laws. Truckers aren't going to like this either and the auto makers will feel the same. I think, today, autos don't do much damage as far as e-missions, its more oil and gas and some other industries. People will be peeved off with this. https://ca.autos.yahoo.com/news/leona-aglukkaq-announces-vehicle-emissions-165800158.html Edited September 23, 2014 by Topaz Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 Harper is just synchronizing with United States vehicle emissions standards. For the most part, California has driven U.S. emissions standards and technology for decades, and Canada just follows as a practical matter of design and manufacturing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Speaking of e-missions, today the Harper government has decided to go after the auto industry and bring in federal vehicle e-missions regulations As if we don't have enough, money grabbing laws. Truckers aren't going to like this either and the auto makers will feel the same. I think, today, autos don't do much damage as far as e-missions, its more oil and gas and some other industries. People will be peeved off with this. https://ca.autos.yahoo.com/news/leona-aglukkaq-announces-vehicle-emissions-165800158.htmlThis is nothing new. As BC said, California has been the driving force behind reductions in vehicle emissions for over 40 years and has dragged the rest of the world along with it. EU standards are getting closer to North American standards every year, almost identical except for diesel NOX emissions and even they are getting close.The key to reducing CO2 emissions is reducing the amount of fuel burned and types of fuel used. Edited September 23, 2014 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Keepitsimple Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 The only guilty westerners are the fools who think trucking and trading with a country ruled by communist oligarchs is a good idea. I was called a right-wing whack-job for expressing this sentiment when the Liberals turned down this cul-de-sac, now I'm called a commie by Conservatives eager to put the pedal to the metal. Now I'm an alarmist. ahhh.....you're just Eyeball Quote Back to Basics
Argus Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) by the by, do you attribute any of that China emissions total (or per capita number) to developed countries outsourcing emissions to China... and if you do, how much of it do you so attribute? That's an interesting excuse. So does that mean that we're not responsible for our oil field emissions, that in fact, it's the US 'outsourcing' emissions to us? And if we start exporting to China does that mean China is outsourcing its emissions to us too? Sixty percent of emissions are now from the third world, including China. And no one is going to get any of them to cut back. Even getting them to put in pollution controls is gonna be a difficult task. Edited September 23, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 That's an interesting excuse. So does that mean that we're not responsible for our oil field emissions, that in fact, it's the US 'outsourcing' emissions to us? And if we start exporting to China does that mean China is outsourcing its emissions to us too? it was a simple question, one asked without any qualification added. You appear a bit defensive there, hey? Quote
eyeball Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 ahhh.....you're just Eyeball I'm just trying to be consistent. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
waldo Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 inconvenient questions... or what? Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 24, 2014 Report Posted September 24, 2014 Speaking of e-missions, today the Harper government has decided to go after the auto industry and bring in federal vehicle e-missions regulations As if we don't have enough, money grabbing laws. Truckers aren't going to like this either and the auto makers will feel the same. I think, today, autos don't do much damage as far as e-missions, its more oil and gas and some other industries. People will be peeved off with this. https://ca.autos.yahoo.com/news/leona-aglukkaq-announces-vehicle-emissions-165800158.html Yes, I'm outraged. I demand that autos pollute as much as possible so that we can chew our air, just like China. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Argus Posted September 24, 2014 Report Posted September 24, 2014 it was a simple question, It was an excuse. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
-1=e^ipi Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Posted September 29, 2014 who are your "alarmists" that you're speaking to? Explain that motivation you claim existed. by the by, do you attribute any of that China emissions total (or per capita number) to developed countries outsourcing emissions to China... and if you do, how much of it do you so attribute? The point is, if you want to tackle the issue of CO2 emissions, you can't leave out major CO2 emitters. Developing countries shouldn't be excluded just because they are 'developing'. And developed countries shouldn't have an disproportionately high burden due to some guilt about the emissions of their parents decades ago (which is a position many hold). The concepts of developed and developing countries are losing meaning quite rapidly. Quote
TimG Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) And developed countries shouldn't have an disproportionately high burden due to some guilt about the emissions of their parents decades ago (which is a position many hold).One point that alarmists keep ignoring: "developing" countries have benefited enormously from the CO2 emissions in the developed world that led to the creation of markets, capital and technology which they depend on to develop their economy today. Without those developed world emissions for 100+ years China would still be a nation of farmers. IOW - the idea that developed countries have some "debt" to pay for past emissions is nonsense. Edited September 29, 2014 by TimG Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 Trying to equate everything in terms of bank accounts is worse nonsense. It's hard to bullshit the planet, she just ain't listening. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 Trying to equate everything in terms of bank accounts is worse nonsense. It's hard to bullshit the planet, she just ain't listening. Emotional gibberish that contributes nothing. Quote Back to Basics
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