Remiel Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 So there is this article from the Huffington Post today: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/08/atikamekw-first-nation-quebec-territory_n_5787216.html . According to Wikipedia, the Atikamekw First Nation has about 7,000 members. And they are claiming sovereignty over an area the size of the Czech Republic or Austria, countries with 10 1/2 million and 8 1/2 million people respectively.The precedent in British Columbia was for a FN of comparable size, but they were claiming an area of what, 1500 square kilometers? This group is claiming 80,000. If this is the way it is going to be it is insane. No one has a moral right to that much land for themselves: eleven square kilometers per person! No ones owes these people an aristocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 If this is the way it is going to be it is insane. No one has a moral right to that much land for themselves: eleven square kilometers per person! No ones owes these people an aristocracy. Don't worry. I'm quite sure they'll be willing to take millions and millions and millions of dollars in exchange for abandoning the claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Don't worry. I'm quite sure they'll be willing to take millions and millions and millions of dollars in exchange for abandoning the claim. That would be crazy. Abandoning a claim. Why not keep title and lease it out successively or jointly to various parties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 That would be crazy. Abandoning a claim. Why not keep title and lease it out successively or jointly to various parties? Yea...that'll work. Look at all the claims being paid now with concrete treaties. Oh wait............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 If you don't endorse race-based 'rights' where certain people are given entitlements based on their race, then apparently you are racist. At least according to the majority of Canadians, who are okay with state institutionalized racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Yea...that'll work. Look at all the claims being paid now with concrete treaties. Oh wait............. wtf are you yapping about? Plenty of bands lease rights to commerce on land they control via treaty or land claim settlement. If its treaty land, they have to work through the Crown. If they have a settlement, they will have their own economic development staff. Duh. No one has a moral right to that much land for themselves: So you feel that Canada as The Crown has no moral right to the millions of acres they now control or 'own' outright? Interesting. Oh, and moral rights are superceded by Supreme Court decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted September 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 So you feel that Canada as The Crown has no moral right to the millions of acres they now control or 'own' outright? Interesting. Canada controls those lands through de facto power and military force. If you recall my previous 50/km^2 rate, in a world with even population distribution we would occupy around 700,000 km^2, as opposed to the 9 mil+ we do now. Cosmic justice is not the source of our control, and yet we are being told we must submit to owing natives vast tracts of land and wealth for that very same cosmic justice when their claims, on a population basis, are often far worse than ours. If the FN in question had 140 km^2, they would have a "fair" share of the Earth. They want 80,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 If you don't endorse race-based 'rights' where certain people are given entitlements based on their race, then apparently you are racist. At least according to the majority of Canadians, who are okay with state institutionalized racism. Now that is just plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Canada controls those lands through de facto power and military force. If you recall my previous 50/km^2 rate, in a world with even population distribution we would occupy around 700,000 km^2, as opposed to the 9 mil+ we do now. Cosmic justice is not the source of our control, and yet we are being told we must submit to owing natives vast tracts of land and wealth for that very same cosmic justice when their claims, on a population basis, are often far worse than ours. If the FN in question had 140 km^2, they would have a "fair" share of the Earth. They want 80,000. What is cosmic justice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 wtf are you yapping about?All govts in this country have sucked when it came time to pay the treaty agreements. Like this one ! http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/09/09/land_deal_with_ontarios_ojibway_still_in_contention_after_164_years.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Now that is just plain stupid. Brilliant and well-thought out response. *sarcasm* Do you like suffering from cognitive dissonance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Canada controls those lands through de facto power and military force. If you recall my previous 50/km^2 rate, in a world with even population distribution we would occupy around 700,000 km^2, as opposed to the 9 mil+ we do now. Cosmic justice is not the source of our control, and yet we are being told we must submit to owing natives vast tracts of land and wealth for that very same cosmic justice when their claims, on a population basis, are often far worse than ours. If the FN in question had 140 km^2, they would have a "fair" share of the Earth. They want 80,000. I was commenting on this: "moral right to that much land for themselves:" If a First Nations has no moral right to their claim, I'm not sure what 'moral right' the Crown has to a far greater area. All govts in this country have sucked when it came time to pay the treaty agreements. Like this one ! http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/09/09/land_deal_with_ontarios_ojibway_still_in_contention_after_164_years.html You still stuck on some bad treaties as some sort of persuasive case that the same circumstances applies to all treaty and non treaty situations? I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 You still stuck on some bad treaties as some sort of persuasive case that the same circumstances applies to all treaty and non treaty situations? I hope not.You still stuck on the idea the govt plays fair with documented treaties? How quaint . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If a First Nations has no moral right to their claim, I'm not sure what 'moral right' the Crown has to a far greater area. Exactly. One cannot morally derive who should own what land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think I said Canada has de facto control. That is not supposed to be synonymous with moral right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If this is the way it is going to be it is insane. No one has a moral right to that much land for themselves: eleven square kilometers per person! No ones owes these people an aristocracy. That's why Section 1 of our Charter exists. It imposes reasonable limits on any/all applications of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 You still stuck on the idea the govt plays fair with documented treaties? How quaint . No, but that was not the question- which was about 'moral rights'. Nice try at moving the goalposts. Well actually it was not very well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Brilliant and well-thought out response. *sarcasm* Do you like suffering from cognitive dissonance? Reread what you posted, then you will understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) No, but that was not the question- which was about 'moral rights'. Nice try at moving the goalposts. Well actually it was not very well done. Really? Hmm... That would be crazy. Abandoning a claim. Why not keep title and lease it out successively or jointly to various parties? Can you possibly show me where moral rights were referenced, touched upon, broached in the above post of yours to which I responded? Its a rhetorical question by the way. Move the goalposts... Edited September 10, 2014 by Guyser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Reread what you posted, then you will understand. Are you implying that I misinterpreted you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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