Ferguson unrest

[Michael Hardner]

Plenty of blacks in the US today are not descended from slaves.

Cite ?

[Bonam]

Cite ?

Does that really need a cite? People from all countries, including black people, have continued to immigrate to the US throughout the 20th and 21st centuries in significant numbers.

[Keepitsimple]

". African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#African_Americans

I've quoted that fact before - and the fact that 50% of all US homicides have black victims and 94% of the perpetrators are black. What was your point? Was it to emphasize that the level of black-on-black violence is outrageously high? Was it that you agree that the discussion has been less than open because it does not include these facts?

[Black Dog]

The best(?) I've been able to find is from the FBI that says that there are about 400 "justifiable" police homicides each year - and about 25% are black. That obviously means that 75% are non-black - and where is the outrage about that?

Because it's about far more than just police shooting black people and getting away with it. That's a symbol and a symptom of a system that people don't trust. If you don;'t understand that fundamental fact, you're never going to understand the issues.

I'll also point out that the lack of accurate data on police shootings is itself indicative of a major problem: without such data, how do we know if there's actually a problem and how to fix it if there is? That highlights the issue of a lack of accountability and transparency on teh part of law enforcement.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

What was your point?

That black people die at twice the rate that they should given the percentages.

[Michael Hardner]

Does that really need a cite?

Depending on what "plenty" means, I think so. If it's a million people, then sure that's "plenty" but still not significant, and therefore not really relevant to the discussion.

[GostHacked]

They didn't exactly stamp the country name on their passports when they were kidnapped and brought to America.

Passports were not a thing when the US kidnapped blacks from Africa. But even if my grandparents were kidnapped and brought to Canada, should I still call myself a German Canadian? Or should I simply be a white Canadian? Or simply a Canadian.

[Michael Hardner]

... I still call myself a German Canadian?

If you didn't know what country you came from, you could say you're a European-Canadian. It would probably only raise eyebrows if people wondered why you didn't know which country you were from.

[guyser]

I think this is part of their problem. They are not AFRICAN Americans. They are BLACK Americans. It's like me calling myself A German Canadian because my grandparents immigrated from Germany after WWII. In terms of rhetoric on the news, I think the term African American is a disservice to blacks in general.

That term was coined by , or promoted as the term to embrace, by Jesse Jackson.

He did so since plenty of immigrants had coined their own phrases, Irish American , Italian American and by and large those two groups had historically been subject to racism, but no longer were on any large scale.

Black , the term, carries more negative connotations than Afr American.

And who knew.....the US Army only dropped the usage of Negro last month. Good job US Army......insert facepalm here.

[Bonam]

Depending on what "plenty" means, I think so. If it's a million people, then sure that's "plenty" but still not significant, and therefore not really relevant to the discussion.

Why? If the hypothesis is that black people in America today have problems because their ancestors were slaves, then the group who are not descended from slaves would make a great comparison group to test the hypothesis, and a million is certainly plenty for such an analysis.

[Michael Hardner]

Why? If the hypothesis is that black people in America today have problems because their ancestors were slaves, then the group who are not descended from slaves would make a great comparison group to test the hypothesis, and a million is certainly plenty for such an analysis.

But that's not what we were talking about at all. Why would you have said "plenty of blacks are not descended from slaves" ? Certainly I couldn't be expected to guess you were talking about using them as a comparison group ?

[Bonam]

Why did I say it? Because you made it sound like every black in America was forcibly "kidnapped" from their home country and shipped to America. Which is obviously not the case.

But then you asked what plenty means, and I answered that separately, as in 1 million being plenty enough to be a group worth considering.

Anyway, I can't find hard stats on it but googling around shows some common estimates as being ~10-13% of the black population being 1st-2nd generation immigrations, that is, not descended of American slaves (they may well be descended from slaves elsewhere earlier in history, but then again so is literally every human alive since slavery used to be universal to nearly all human civilizations). 10% is a big enough group that it is not valid to make sweeping general statements like you made.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

If you didn't know what country you came from, you could say you're a European-Canadian. It would probably only raise eyebrows if people wondered why you didn't know which country you were from.

The country I am from is Canada. I would be stupid to call myself European-Canadian.

[GostHacked]

That term was coined by , or promoted as the term to embrace, by Jesse Jackson.

He did so since plenty of immigrants had coined their own phrases, Irish American , Italian American and by and large those two groups had historically been subject to racism, but no longer were on any large scale.

Black , the term, carries more negative connotations than Afr American.

And who knew.....the US Army only dropped the usage of Negro last month. Good job US Army......insert facepalm here.

I do not have a problem with the term Negro. If I did, I'd have a problem with calling myself Caucasian instead of white. I don't have a problem with either term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

Negro is also the word for black in Spanish/Portuguese languages.

[Michael Hardner]

I would be stupid to call myself European-Canadian.

If you feel that way, I suppose. There are lots of people who like to brandish their heritage by hyphenating their Canadian-ness, including American-Canadians...

[GostHacked]

But that's not what we were talking about at all. Why would you have said "plenty of blacks are not descended from slaves" ? Certainly I couldn't be expected to guess you were talking about using them as a comparison group ?

You are looking back at about 150 years of history. Slavery was early on in those years. Since then there has been immigration of blacks from all over the world. So as time goes on, those directly connected to slaves from Africa dwindle.

Do blacks in the UK have this issue? Do they call themselves African-Britains? You can bet slavery happened there as the UK was a global player during that time. Americans were not the only ones using blacks as slaves.

You cannot be an African American when born in Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, or Ferguson. You are a black American. If people get offended by that, then it could be some of that white 'guilt' coming into play.

[GostHacked]

If you feel that way, I suppose. There are lots of people who like to brandish their heritage by hyphenating their Canadian-ness, including American-Canadians...

I used to do that early on in my life. But no more. I not only have a heritage connection to Germany, I also have a heritage connection to England. But that goes back even farther than my German connection. I'd have to call myself a English-German-Canadian. Which is really just stupid.

Edited December 30, 2014 by GostHacked

[Black Dog]

You are looking back at about 150 years of history. Slavery was early on in those years. Since then there has been immigration of blacks from all over the world. So as time goes on, those directly connected to slaves from Africa dwindle.

From all over the world including, presumably, Africa or other nations with populations descended from former black slaves.

Do blacks in the UK have this issue? Do they call themselves African-Britains? You can bet slavery happened there as the UK was a global player during that time. Americans were not the only ones using blacks as slaves.

The UK participated in the slave trade, but its domestic slave population was never as significant as that of the United States.

You cannot be an African American when born in Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, or Ferguson. You are a black American. If people get offended by that, then it could be some of that white 'guilt' coming into play.

It's mighty presumptuous of you to decide how people can and cannot self-identify. Also, what does it mean to be "black"? "Black" people come in a variety of skin tones, after all.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Black Dog

[jacee]

Trying to find accurate information about police shootings in general is impossible.

Here's a place to start researching:

/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Canada

[Black Dog]

Here's a place to start researching:

/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Canada

Talking about the U.S. here.

[Big Guy]

You can call yourself whatever you want to. It is what to call others that is the problem. What one person of a particular heritage wants to be called could be easily considered an insult by another person with exactly the same heritage.

[GostHacked]

You can call yourself whatever you want to. It is what to call others that is the problem. What one person of a particular heritage wants to be called could be easily considered an insult by another person with exactly the same heritage.

Then it's a problem for them, not me.

[cybercoma]

Cite ?

Forget the cite. What does it matter? It's not like a black person has to be descended directly from slaves to suffer the ill consequences of slavery on America's institutions and society. It's not like people discriminate between black people descended from slaves and all those other black folks who didn't. If you're black in America, you get to navigate the society, culture, and institutions that were borne of a slave-dependent and racist society.

[Bob Macadoo]

Forget the cite. What does it matter? It's not like a black person has to be descended directly from slaves to suffer the ill consequences of slavery on America's institutions and society. It's not like people discriminate between black people descended from slaves and all those other black folks who didn't. If you're black in America, you get to navigate the society, culture, and institutions that were borne of a slave-dependent and racist society.

Nawww didn't you know it's human nature to get to know someone rather than pre-judge them on appearances.......unless he claims to be a Nigerian prince....those guys I hate on sight..

[TimG]

Forget the cite. What does it matter?

Translation: You don't care about the facts. You just want to fabricate as many excuses as possible in order to absolve people of any responsibility for their own choices and put the blame on people who have nothing to do with the problems but don't have the correct skin color. Edited December 30, 2014 by TimG