Ferguson unrest

[Black Dog]

And real problems begin with real facts. Every year in the US, there are 7000 black homicides - 95% of which are perpetrated by other black Americans. That represents 50% of all homicides - even though blacks represent less than 15% of the population. It's time for the media to get off the Liberal "white guilt" soapbox and start dealing with these facts. Blacks are over-represented in the criminal justice system not because they are black, they are not over-represented in run-ins with police because they are black.....they are over-represented because they are more likely to be involved in criminal activity. As to why that is the case can be argued until the cows come home - but facts are facts and its more than time to deal with it.

Yeah because it's only one or the other. Your user name has never been more appropriate.

[Keepitsimple]

Yeah because it's only one or the other. Your user name has never been more appropriate.

Open your mind......the media continually argue the very real contributors of the residue of slavery and the resulting hereditary poverty......but we can't ignore the other factors - that young black men are being murdered by black men - at dizzying rates. That the "cultural" predominance of the one mother, many father families and embracing the "Baby-Mom" fosters the lack of respect and feeling of rejection and unwantedness that fuels the violent mindset of so many inner-city kids. We've got the same issues here in Toronto with Caribbean newcomers without the added US historical baggage - the Baby-Mom culture just doesn't work in a prosperous society.

[On Guard for Thee]

Sounds like white guilt denying real facts to maintain status quo. US homiciides in 2010 ran 84% white on white, 93% black on black. Hate crime at the same time were 70% anti- black motivated compared to 18% anti white. Violent crime stats show little difference between white and black disparities while blacks receive lengthier sentences for the same crimes.

[Black Dog]

Open your mind......the media continually argue the very real contributors of the residue of slavery and the resulting hereditary poverty......but we can't ignore the other factors - that young black men are being murdered by black men - at dizzying rates.

Again: how are these different, separate problems?

[Michael Hardner]

Again: how are these different, separate problems?

Or, reworded, how can we say for sure that there is no causative link between these problems...

[Keepitsimple]

Again: how are these different, separate problems?

And again - they are not separate - but only one side gets all the attention. How many people would have an inkling of those facts......that 50% of homicides in the US are black victims and 95% of the perpetrators are black? It's almost impossible to even find that kind of information. Try and find some data on how many of those black perpetrators have had no father in their life. There are community and religious groups who are doing yeoman work in addressing these problems but it's a huge uphill battle - especially when we are unable to have an honest public discussion.

[eyeball]

The numbers cited are a testament to how long the dysfunction caused by things like wholesale slavery, rape, torture and murder can linger in a people and cause an entire culture to feel the effects for generations.

The typical right wing response, suck it up and get over it, is a testament to their deficiency in empathy if not humanity. It probably has a lot to do with why such dysfunction last so long.

The right wing is like religion, it makes just about everything worse.

[Keepitsimple]

The numbers cited are a testament to how long the dysfunction caused by things like wholesale slavery, rape, torture and murder can linger in a people and cause an entire culture to feel the effects for generations.

The typical right wing response, suck it up and get over it, is a testament to their deficiency in empathy if not humanity. It probably has a lot to do with why such dysfunction last so long.

The right wing is like religion, it makes just about everything worse.

Empathy and Humanity have their limits - and then it's time to evolve. Here in Toronto,, there's little reason for empathy OR humanity. People arrive from Jamaica - a country rife with murder, drugs and Baby Moms - and instead of embracing a new beginning, they continue the ways that should have been left behind. Empathy and Humanity are not reserved for those on the Left - but willful blindness and the inability to confront reality surely is.

[On Guard for Thee]

You ought to get out more. I grew up in TO but have lived in a number of the largest cities in this country and I have more often seen the opposite of the ills you keep harping about. Maybe try a different tack than the baby moms thingy.

[eyeball]

Empathy and Humanity are not reserved for those on the Left - but willful blindness and the inability to confront reality surely is.

What? Lefties have to confront the reality of right-wing prescriptions for fixing the world's problems all the time.

The first generation or so of all immigrants usually do keep to their ways. As for Jamaica, don't forget it was a hell-hole of slavery, rape, torture and murder too for generations.

Maybe you guys just need to evolve a little more capacity for patience.

Edited December 30, 2014 by eyeball

[WestCoastRunner]

I did not refer to freeloading. What I am stating is the unfortunate fact that blacks are becoming a semi-permanent underclass. Some do escape. Those that escape though are denigrated by their own people for "acting white."

This sounds like a soundbite from some right-wing newscast.

Do you have any cite to confirm that they are denigrated for acting white?

[TimG]

Do you have any cite to confirm that they are denigrated for acting white?

Do you consider Barak Obama a credible source?

“Go into any inner-city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach kids to learn.They know that parents have to parent, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.”

—Barack Obama, Keynote Address, Democratic National Convention, 2004

[WestCoastRunner]

Do you consider Barak Obama a credible source?

I get what you are insinuating and I agree that Obama is a great credible source. However, that means squat to me. If blacks wish to rise above their surroundings, let them. I'm not sure of the argument here. I haven't heard of a credible source denigrating blacks for succeeding.

[TimG]

I'm not sure of the argument here.

The argument is the problem is, in part, caused by culture and that changes to culture cannot be imposed from outside - they must come from inside. That is the message I believe that Obama was trying to communicate.

[Black Dog]

And again - they are not separate - but only one side gets all the attention. How many people would have an inkling of those facts......that 50% of homicides in the US are black victims and 95% of the perpetrators are black? It's almost impossible to even find that kind of information.

Are you serious? This information is easily accessible. You found it, didn't you? And do you think high rates of so-called "black-on-black" crime is news to that community?

Try and find some data on how many of those black perpetrators have had no father in their life. There are community and religious groups who are doing yeoman work in addressing these problems but it's a huge uphill battle - especially when we are unable to have an honest public discussion.

Is that sort of like how we can't have an honest public discussion on police violence without people bringing up tangential issues like high black crime rates or unwed mothers?

[Black Dog]

The argument is the problem is, in part, caused by culture and that changes to culture cannot be imposed from outside - they must come from inside. That is the message I believe that Obama was trying to communicate.

And from whence did this culture spring?

[Keepitsimple]

Is that sort of like how we can't have an honest public discussion on police violence without people bringing up tangential issues like high black crime rates or unwed mothers?

The issues are not tangential - if high black crime rates mean that blacks are more often putting themselves into confrontations with police - then obviously, you're going to have more "use of force" situations. The results should not be that surprising. On the other hand, try and find some information that shows how many "whites" were shot by police.....or for that matter, how many whites were shot by black police officers. Good luck with that.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Black Dog]

The issues are not tangential - if high black crime rates mean that blacks are more often putting themselves into confrontations with police - then obviously, you're going to have more "use of force" situations. The results should not be that surprising.

It's a chicken-egg argument. I will point out, however, that presumptions about black criminality were the basis and justification for many of the overt racist laws and policies of the past 300 years. No stats on black crime required.

On the other hand, try and find some information that shows how many "whites" were shot by police.....or for that matter, how many whites were shot by black police officers. Good luck with that.

Trying to find accurate information about police shootings in general is impossible.

[On Guard for Thee]

It certainly is tough in the US. Many police forces do not, and are not required to post info., which of course makes it easy for anyone to tweak what is available to suit their fancy, no matter how twisted.

[Keepitsimple]

Trying to find accurate information about police shootings in general is impossible.

The best(?) I've been able to find is from the FBI that says that there are about 400 "justifiable" police homicides each year - and about 25% are black. That obviously means that 75% are non-black - and where is the outrage about that?

[Michael Hardner]

... that there are about 400 "justifiable" police homicides each year - and about 25% are black.

". African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#African_Americans

[GostHacked]

The best(?) I've been able to find is from the FBI that says that there are about 400 "justifiable" police homicides each year - and about 25% are black. That obviously means that 75% are non-black - and where is the outrage about that?

Non-black? What kind of category is that? It's a nice tactic to hide other information. Where is the break down? Whites, hispanics, blacks, asians, ect ect ect....... How about the ratio of women to men? What was their social status?

[GostHacked]

". African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#African_Americans

I think this is part of their problem. They are not AFRICAN Americans. They are BLACK Americans. It's like me calling myself A German Canadian because my grandparents immigrated from Germany after WWII. In terms of rhetoric on the news, I think the term African American is a disservice to blacks in general.

[Michael Hardner]

I think this is part of their problem. They are not AFRICAN Americans. They are BLACK Americans. It's like me calling myself A German Canadian because my grandparents immigrated from Germany after WWII. In terms of rhetoric on the news, I think the term African American is a disservice to blacks in general.

They didn't exactly stamp the country name on their passports when they were kidnapped and brought to America.

[Bonam]

They didn't exactly stamp the country name on their passports when they were kidnapped and brought to America.

Plenty of blacks in the US today are not descended from slaves. As immigration continues, those descended from slaves will become a minority among black Americans (if they aren't already).

Edited December 30, 2014 by Bonam