Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Do you read it in Arabic? The Koran is not written in modern Arabic. No Arabic speaker today can read it. They are reading translations of the original. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Read slowly: you choose to intrepret Islam a certain way. Others choose to intrepret it in a different way. Where? What region of the world has interpreted Islam to be peaceful and harmonious? What Muslim nation does not have official discrimination against non-Muslims? What Muslim nation has social customs and laws that are not drawn from THIS interpretation of the Koran? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Yet, despite your lack of belief in Bronze-age myths, you said: You contended, in ignorance, that ISIS had it right in regards to Islam. A lot of Muslims seem to think so too. 92% of Saudi’s believe that ‘Islamic State conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law’ - Poll. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Keep in mind that some of member Altai's explanations clash with those of other Muslims including those at IslamQA.info. We have no problem grilling Betsy on some of her dubious apologetic stances on Biblical scriptures, despite the fact that she has most likely spent more time pouring over them than most. Bear in mind Betsy is not a 16 year old girl. I don't see the profit in arguing literal translations of the Koran with a 16 year old girl - especially one who has already shown she believes whatever the Turkish government tells her and labels western media "Anti Turkish propaganda". Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Still would you deny that most Christians and Muslims don't live by the scriptures? Even though many become apologetic, contortionists in an attempt to keep the charade alive. I would say most Christians in the West don't live by the scriptures, especially the Old Testament. However, Muslims seem a lot more attached and dedicated to theirs, especially in third world. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 Which countries in the Muslim world support a different "interpretation?" That's like saying all Western nations operate in exactly the same way. Which is total rubbish. Quote
?Impact Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 I would say most Christians in the West don't live by the scriptures, especially the Old Testament. However, Muslims seem a lot more attached and dedicated to theirs, especially in third world. How many Muslims in the West (your qualification) live by the Qu'ran (the Old Testament like passages)? Quote
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 That's like saying all Western nations operate in exactly the same way. Which is total rubbish. So which? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 8, 2016 Report Posted September 8, 2016 How many Muslims in the West (your qualification) live by the Qu'ran (the Old Testament like passages)? I have no way of knowing that. They must live, in most respects, according to our laws, except in their private lives. However, in the Muslim world, they live as THEY CHOOSE, so I think asking which of the Muslim world countries embrace a peaceful Islam of tolerance, peace and understanding, as you guys on the Left keep assuring us is by far the most common interpretation of the Koran, is entirely fair. So let's have that list. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
?Impact Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 However, in the Muslim world, they live as THEY CHOOSE, so I think asking which of the Muslim world countries embrace a peaceful Islam of tolerance, peace and understanding, as you guys on the Left keep assuring us is by far the most common interpretation of the Koran, is entirely fair. The world has been a very violent place. Yes, since the end of the cold war most of that violence has been in 'Muslim' countries (North Korea is a notable exception). Note that the West (and Soviets) has interfered in most of those countries with significant violence. It is not that Muslims are getting worse, it is that the other parts of the World have healed faster/better. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 So let's have that list. No way, Jose. The world has been a very violent place. Yes, since the end of the cold war most of that violence has been in 'Muslim' countries (North Korea is a notable exception). Note that the West (and Soviets) has interfered in most of those countries with significant violence. It is not that Muslims are getting worse, it is that the other parts of the World have healed faster/better. Healing from the depredations of the West? Or what? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Peter F Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 A lot of Muslims seem to think so too. 92% of Saudi’s believe that ‘Islamic State conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law’ - Poll. Excellent source Argus! Unfortunately, we only have the original article discussing the poll results (screen caps below) which was published in Al-Hayat news in Saudi Arabia on July 22, 2014, and that confirm a 92% outcome of support for the Islamic State, but no details or example of all the questions, sources and responses to the poll itself. That Sunni Muslims are supportive of the Islamic State should come as no surprise to anyone. ISIS represents the core tenents of Islam and the duty each Muslim must do to spread and install Islam around the world. At the same time Saudi authorities are concerned because one of ISIS’s aims is to topple the Saudi royal family. Who wrote that blog entry Argus? Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 Then they are not Muslim. No more than an apparent Christian who ignores Thou Shalt Not Steal. This is nonsense. Stealing is a sin, but it doesn't invalidate your Christian beliefs. There are many preachers who minister to inmates who have sent many murderers to heaven because they accepted Christ.... Being sin-free is not a condition of being a Christian. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 This is nonsense. Stealing is a sin, but it doesn't invalidate your Christian beliefs. There are many preachers who minister to inmates who have sent many murderers to heaven because they accepted Christ.... Being sin-free is not a condition of being a Christian. Breaking the Ten Commandments is okay in Christianity. Handy to know. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 Breaking the Ten Commandments is okay in Christianity. Handy to know. Now you're changing the goal posts. You said you aren't a Christian if you break a commandment. That's absolutely not true. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 Now you're changing the goal posts. You said you aren't a Christian if you break a commandment. That's absolutely not true. I disagree. The Ten Commandments are deal breakers re: getting into Heaven. You might be Christian...but, you'll be serving in Hell. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) I disagree. The Ten Commandments are deal breakers re: getting into Heaven. You might be Christian...but, you'll be serving in Hell.So now you have completely changed what you claimed. LOLMost Christians believe you can still go to heaven even if you screw the neighbour's wife... So your new claim is wrong as well... At least to a very large proportion of Christians. Forgiveness for sins is one of the central tenets of a lot of Christianity. Edited September 9, 2016 by The_Squid Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 So now you have completely changed what you claimed. LOL Most Christians believe you can still go to heaven even if you screw the neighbour's wife... So your new claim is wrong as well... At least to a very large proportion of Christians. Forgiveness for sins is one of the central tenets of a lot of Christianity. What individual Christians *think* the Bible means is irrelevant. It's not up for a vote. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
cybercoma Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) What individual Christians *think* the Bible means is irrelevant. It's not up for a vote. What are you talking about? There's as many different beliefs about how to get into heaven as there are Christian sects. Yet, the all follow the same Bible. Edited September 9, 2016 by cybercoma Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 What are you talking about? There's as many different beliefs about how to get into heaven as there are Christian sects. Yet, the all follow the same Bible. The Ten Commandments are different from 'sect to sect'? Do tell.... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 What individual Christians *think* the Bible means is irrelevant. It's not up for a vote. So once you steal a chocolate bar when you're 15, you can never get to heaven? What brand of Christianity are you talking about? A basic tenet is forgiveness for sins. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 So once you steal a chocolate bar when you're 15, you can never get to heaven? What brand of Christianity are you talking about? A basic tenet is forgiveness for sins. Thou Shalt Not Steal. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 One accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and your Sins are washed clean. After that one is expected to tow the line. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 Thou Shalt Not Steal. LOL Which Christian sect doesn't forgive someone for stealing? I've been googling while we have been posting back and forth and I can't find any sect that believes what you say they believe. If you steal, you can be forgiven and still get to heaven. You're losing this argument really badly... Quote
The_Squid Posted September 9, 2016 Report Posted September 9, 2016 One accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and your Sins are washed clean. After that one is expected to tow the line. Your argument changes again!!! Quote
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