guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Wow, talking about victimising the victim!What victim? Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Double Jeopardy A second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal or conviction or multiple punishments for same offense Could you please give me examples of how the Screen Actors Guild penalizes their members "all the time" for mistakes? There are many convicted criminals who are very successful actors. She is being punished for this twice, she can't leave him now. Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 What victim? You mocked her for staying with him, and now he's without a job. It was jarring for it's callousness. They're lives must be Hell right now. It's her own fault for not ending the relationship the minute she woke up though. Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Double Jeopardy A second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal or conviction or multiple punishments for same offense Meaning in Court...as in Courthouse? As in before a Judge or Jury? The penal system? Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 You mocked her for staying with him, and now he's without a job.Yea..so? She/they deserve it. It was jarring for it's callousness.What his fist punch? Her inability to have any smarts? Or the NFL penalty? Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Could you please give me examples of how the Screen Actors Guild penalizes their members "all the time" for mistakes?McCarthey for one. But I meant, and apologize if you didnt, how Hollywood punishes lots of people for many things.Not just SAG>AFTRA Thus the happens all the time. Edited September 9, 2014 by Guyser2 Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Yea..so? She/they deserve it. What his fist punch? Her inability to have any smarts? Or the NFL penalty? The NFL penalty is a completely different story. That could cost Roger Goddell his job. There are 3 possibilities here. 1) She's a beaten fiancé/wife and her spirit is broken by this man. Which would be very sad but there's not real evidence to prove that. 2) She's a Gold Digger and because she wasn't married at the time, she stuck it out and if he ever her after getting married she'd have gotten a big pay day but not before. She might even try to provoke it. 3) She really loved him and what happened was a one-off deal (no couple can avoid fights) and they've moved past it but are now being brought back to it by the media. No one but her knows what is the true scenario. Anyone else commenting is only dealing in reckless speculation. Edited September 9, 2014 by Boges Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 The NFL penalty is a completely different story. That could cost Roger Goddell his job.Thats true, especially if it can be proven that the NFL had the videotape(some say they did) and tried to bury it. 3) She really loved him and what happened was a one-off deal (no couple can avoid fights) and they've moved past it but are now being brought back to it by the media.Almost never is it a one off deal. Quote
Mighty AC Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 It's very sad that everyone is telling her how she should feel. Because she didn't leave him THEN, she's left to suffer now because her husband has been fired. What would you say if she only stayed with him and married him for the money? Because that could easily be a factor here, no one knows. Do you think an abuser should escape punishment if the victim claims to have forgiven him/her? If she did marry Ray for the money then she may want to reevaluate her decision now. Who knows, it may save her life. Both the NFL and the Ravens are businesses that have to protect their image. Regardless of whether or not the league had seen the elevator video when they levied the two game suspension, they had to respond in this manner once the video leaked. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Do you think an abuser should escape punishment if the victim claims to have forgiven him/her? If she did marry Ray for the money then she may want to reevaluate her decision now. Who knows, it may save her life. Both the NFL and the Ravens are businesses that have to protect their image. Regardless of whether or not the league had seen the elevator video when they levied the two game suspension, they had to respond in this manner once the video leaked. The league and the team had made their decision. What did they think happened? He said he knocked her out, we already saw the result of the punch on video before this. The NFL is showing a shocking lack of decisiveness and leadership. What they did yesterday doesn't protect their image at all, it's reactionary. And hypocritical considering how many NFL player have been charged with domestic assault. He pleaded guilty so the law made their choice to give him a lesser penalty because it's a first time offence. They didn't change their mind once the video became public. Edited September 9, 2014 by Boges Quote
Mighty AC Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 She is being punished for this twice, she can't leave him now. Why not? If she actually forgave Ray and really does love him there is no need to leave him. If she is a gold digger and stuck around for the money, why does that decision prevent her from divorcing him now that the big paycheque has vanished? Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Why not? If she actually forgave Ray and really does love him there is no need to leave him. If she is a gold digger and stuck around for the money, why does that decision prevent her from divorcing him now that the big paycheque has vanished? She could do that, but that makes her a complete monster, and everyone will know it. This happened months ago and she's since married him. If she does leave him now, it would have to be because of the money. Unless of course he hits her all the time. No evidence of that. Quote
Mighty AC Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 The league and the team had made their decision. What did they think happened? He said he knocked her out, we already saw the result of the punch on video before this. The NFL is showing a shocking lack of decisiveness and leadership. What they did yesterday doesn't protect their image at all, it's reactionary. And hypocritical considering how many NFL player have been charged with domestic assault. He pleaded guilty so the law made their choice to give him a lesser penalty because it's a first time offence. They didn't change their mind once the video became public. Of course the move was reactionary. The NFL is a business with an image to protect. The video evidence changed the public perception of the league thus they had to react to protect the bottom line. All pro leagues have had criminals and degenerates play for them, but that shouldn't prevent them from raising their standard of conduct at some point. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 She could do that, but that makes her a complete monster, and everyone will know it. Possibly, but so what? If she made an ugly choice for money that didn't work out, she'll have to live with it. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Of course the move was reactionary. The NFL is a business with an image to protect. The video evidence changed the public perception of the league thus they had to react to protect the bottom line. All pro leagues have had criminals and degenerates play for them, but that shouldn't prevent them from raising their standard of conduct at some point. The NFL is going to re-admit a player later this year who got drunk, drove and killed a guy. So their "image" isn't improved by firing a guy over something many players have done in the past but doing it on video. Goddell might end up losing his job over this because he didn't make much of an effort to obtain said video. The law and order comish dropped the ball, then overcompensated to try and fix it. Edited September 9, 2014 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Possibly, but so what? If she made an ugly choice for money that didn't work out, she'll have to live with it. Or she made a choice to stay with the man she's been with since college and the media has ruined her and her husband's life. Quote
Mighty AC Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) The NFL is going to re-admit a player later this year who got drunk, drove and killed a guy. So their "image" isn't improved by firing a guy over something many players have done in the past but doing it on video.Sure it is. The brutal scene in the video caused people to take notice, hence they had to react to help protect their image. People didn't notice or care before so the NFL let domestic abuse slide. Or she made a choice to stay with the man she's been with since college and the media has ruined her and her husband's life.I'd say Ray ruined their lives with his actions. I would also lose my job if I was caught on film punching my wife if the face. It would be ludicrous for either me or my wife to blame whomever made the video public. Edited September 9, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Sure it is. The brutal scene in the video caused people to take notice, hence they had to react to help protect their image. People didn't notice or care before so the NFL let domestic abuse slide.The cover up is worse than the crime. Had they released the video and said Rice gets say 9 games. Would there be outrage? NFL players have done worse for less. But now the NFL has lost credibility on their punishment department because they tried to slide in a rather light penalty on a star player because the owner of the Raven's wanted it. Edited September 9, 2014 by Boges Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Or she made a choice to stay with the man she's been with since college and the media has ruined her and her husband's life.Not hard for the media to rig up a cable to make that left hook connect with her jaw. But they did it ! Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 Not hard for the media to rig up a cable to make that left hook connect with her jaw. But they did it ! What I mean is that they thought this was past them. (they ended up getting married) and now what seemed to be in the past has been brought back to haunt her too. The NFL has to bare some blame here though. They tried to protect Rice, one of the league's star, and ended up making the situation worse. Quote
guyser Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 What I mean is that they thought this was past them. (they ended up getting married) and now what seemed to be in the past has been brought back to haunt her too.She is rightly embarassed , probably from reading that she set women back a few decades. The NFL has to bare some blame here though. They tried to protect Rice, one of the league's star, and ended up making the situation worse. They dont share any blame, Rice hit her, the NFL didnt. But as I said before, if the NFL is proven to have buried the video then they havew their own mess to clean. Quote
Boges Posted September 9, 2014 Report Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) But as I said before, if the NFL is proven to have buried the video then they havew their own mess to clean. Even if they didn't see the video they could have easily found a way to get it. They put their head in the sand hoping it would go away because Rice is a star. I heard Goodell saying that paying to get the video was illegal. Then why isn't TMZ being charged? As for her. I just don't like people making broad judgments a complex relationship based on one event. We don't have evidence he beats her all the time. People are just assuming that. So now because she didn't leave, she's getting mocked? Is that how domestic violence is being treated now? Edited September 9, 2014 by Boges Quote
Big Guy Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Posted September 10, 2014 It starts with two people having too much to drink and getting into an argument in an elevator. She lunges at him, he cold cocks her. It morphs into an issue of spousal abuse and the responsibility of professional sports organizations to change societal norms. End result - he loses his ability to earn big bucks through his physical ability. She expresses her feelings. She is then pilloried by other women organizations who have their own agenda. They are both now in the news, radioactive and spiralling downwards. Lesson - don't drink too much. And if you are prone to do so then wait until you are in a place where there are no cameras before you begin to battle. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Mighty AC Posted September 10, 2014 Report Posted September 10, 2014 The cover up is worse than the crime. Had they released the video and said Rice gets say 9 games. Would there be outrage? NFL players have done worse for less. But now the NFL has lost credibility on their punishment department because they tried to slide in a rather light penalty on a star player because the owner of the Raven's wanted it. I agree completely. The NFL wanted to let it slide because Ray helps them and the Ravens make money. Morally, both the NFL and Ray RIce are lacking here. However, the video went public and the NFL had to make up for a bad decision. Ray deserved to pay the price for his decision even if the league was originally hoping to sweep it under the rug. I love that Ray Lewis said "I'm nothing like Ray Rice". You know you effed up when a murder accomplice distances himself from you. Anyway, I expect Rice will be back in a year. Thankfully, Ray's willingness to beat women and Janay's glass jaw have probably prompted the league to treat domestic violence cases more seriously going forward. You know, provided they think the public will get wind of the details. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted September 10, 2014 Report Posted September 10, 2014 Lesson - don't drink too much. And if you are prone to do so then wait until you are in a place where there are no cameras before you begin to battle. That's good advice. The alcohol is never an excuse. I once had my nose broken by the girlfriend of a dude that was attempting to jump into a one on one fight involving an idiot friend of mine. I simply tackled the very large dude while he attempted to sucker my idiot friend and then I just held him out of the main attraction. While doing so his girlfriend kicked me in the face. Anyway, I had that split second of rage where I envisioned myself knocking her out....but instead...despite my drunkenness I turned my body and let her beat on the back of my head while I held her boyfriend down. Many gruesome incidents could be avoided by more responsible consumption of alcohol and a better framework for dealing with anger. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
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