Canada_First Posted July 6, 2015 Report Posted July 6, 2015 Why is not a single leader advocating withdrawal from the UN?We don't need the UN. Canada please withdraw immediately Quote
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2015 Report Posted July 6, 2015 So you support the killing of our people What a stupid thing to say. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He was a 15 year old forced to fight in a war zone by his father....does that matter? According to international law he would be designated a child soldier, and U.S. jargon about "illegal combatants" would also not apply. But then again, neither Canada nor the U.S. seems to recognize international law these days. And what does inter national law say about Child soldiers....does it say they can not be held accountable for war crimes or crimes they may have done. does it say they cant be tried in an adult court or receive adult punishments. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Big Guy Posted July 7, 2015 Author Report Posted July 7, 2015 That is what I find frustrating about this public forum. It appears that for many posters, some issue has to be black or white, right or wrong or left or right or .... Very few issues appear to be discussed intelligently without posters attempting to polarize positions. Most important issues can and should be considered through nuances, conditions, interpretations of historical data, expert analysis and individual visions of society. Instead, it is the same people using anything that comes up as yet another stick with which to use against their perceived "opponents" on the board. Too bad. The few time posters give an issue some thought and take their time to comment on the issues, some interesting and informative views are shared. This thread is an example of the worst possible way that any group could discuss an issue. So 853 posts later, it is the same posters slinging the same insults at the same posters. What a waste of time and effort. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
The_Squid Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 And what does inter national law say about Child soldiers....does it say they can not be held accountable for war crimes or crimes they may have done. does it say they cant be tried in an adult court or receive adult punishments. 3. States Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons within their jurisdiction recruited or used in hostilities contrary to the present Protocol are demobilized or otherwise released from service. States Parties shall, when necessary, accord to such persons all appropriate assistance for their physical and psychological recovery and their social reintegration. If you Google it, you can read all about it. Where did Canada do #3 above for Khadr? This is what Canada has ratified and signed on to. Quote
Canada_First Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 What a stupid thing to say. I understand it sounds alarmist but what other way can it be really? Quote
cybercoma Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 I understand it sounds alarmist but what other way can it be really?It could be that people recognize that a child doesn't have much say over where his father brings him and that when his father puts a gun in his hand, he's going to do what his father tells him, and that it's exceedingly reprehensible for a child coerced by his father to attack soldiers to be tortured after becoming a prisoner of war. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) But sure. He's a war hero. /s Edited July 7, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Canada_First Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 It could be that people recognize that a child doesn't have much say over where his father brings him and that when his father puts a gun in his hand, he's going to do what his father tells him, and that it's exceedingly reprehensible for a child coerced by his father to attack soldiers to be tortured after becoming a prisoner of war. Sure but he knew what he was doing. I knew what I was doing at 15 as you did as well. Most teenagers are rebellious, except for this guy? He deserves punishment. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 3. States Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons within their jurisdiction recruited or used in hostilities contrary to the present Protocol are demobilized or otherwise released from service. States Parties shall, when necessary, accord to such persons all appropriate assistance for their physical and psychological recovery and their social reintegration. If you Google it, you can read all about it. Where did Canada do #3 above for Khadr? This is what Canada has ratified and signed on to. That was not my question, does international law give them a free pass fro crimes they may of committed. The UN charter is very clear, that they can be tried for crimes. And if they can be held accountable, then they must be able to serve sentences. Did Omar receive any treatment while under Canadian penal system, not sure. I dont agree with everything that has been done to Omar be it by Canadian authorities, or the American justice system. However i do agree with his sentence, and doing his time for them. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
cybercoma Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Sure but he knew what he was doing. I knew what I was doing at 15 as you did as well. Most teenagers are rebellious, except for this guy? He deserves punishment.How rebellious would you be if you were the son to an Islamofascist radical, who dragged you to a warzone? And how does any of that excuse torturing a child? Edited July 7, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Canada_First Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 How rebellious would you be if you were the son to an Islamofascist radical, who dragged you to a warzone? And how does any of that excuse torturing a child? He was a prisoner. In the prison he was in he was interrogated not tortured. He is an enemy of our nation and our allies. He's lucky he's alive at all. This is the thanks we get for saving his life? This guy needs to show some gratitude. Now he's standing in line with his hand out which is typical for his ilk. Quote
WIP Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Sure but he knew what he was doing. I knew what I was doing at 15 as you did as well. Sure you did! In recent years, neuroscientists have confirmed the nuts&bolts of why teenagers are a problem: the brain is still developing, the subject is much more prone to act on impulse than an adult and have too little regard for risk......things every parent has known and has not needed scientific confirmation of for centuries. This is why legal standards have set the bar lower for children and teens who commit crimes, than adults. The odds on reform or rehabilitation are greater than with adult offenders. The obvious exception that gets trotted out, are the criminal psychopaths. If caught at a young age, they cannot be rehabilitated because of damaged brain function doesn't allow empathy, so they have no moral compass. The majority of psychopaths are not criminals though, but most have great difficulty maintaining relationships because they have to fake their way through by acting in ways that they believe other people expect them to act. In order to be law-abiding, psychopaths have to follow systems of preset rules.....being virtuous just not compute. So, when it comes to a psychopathic young offender, who develops an interest in committing sex crimes or becomes a serial killer, this is someone who will always be a threat to others. The problem is the legal system is so far behind the science of the mind, they still don't have a legal code that uses the right criteria to separate them for life. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He was a prisoner. In the prison he was in he was interrogated not tortured. He is an enemy of our nation and our allies. He's lucky he's alive at all. This is the thanks we get for saving his life? This guy needs to show some gratitude. Now he's standing in line with his hand out which is typical for his ilk. As has been pointed out numerous times since Wikileaks started revealing to the public what the US was doing with their "enhanced interrogations," these fall under the category of torture....even as how it was defined by US Law until they got out their little bottles of whiteout and concocted creative ways of excusing their abuses....for domestic consumption, if nobody else accepts it! The US has charged, convicted and executed Germans, Japanese and others in previous times for waterboarding and other warcrimes that they are now using themselves. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
On Guard for Thee Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He was a prisoner. In the prison he was in he was interrogated not tortured. He is an enemy of our nation and our allies. He's lucky he's alive at all. This is the thanks we get for saving his life? This guy needs to show some gratitude. Now he's standing in line with his hand out which is typical for his ilk. You think waterboarding and sleep deprivation are just regular interrogation techniques do you....where did you say you were born again. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) .... The US has charged, convicted and executed Germans, Japanese and others in previous times for waterboarding and other warcrimes that they are now using themselves. The US has executed lots of people for lots of reasons...including Americans. So what ? What's so special about convicted murderer and terrorist Khadr ? Edited July 7, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
The_Squid Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 The US has executed lots of people for lots of reasons...including Americans. So what ? What's so special about convicted murderer and terrorist Khadr ? What makes him special is that he's Canadian. I notice the Americans didn't execute him, but gave him back.... and now he's out. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 What makes him special is that he's Canadian. I notice the Americans didn't execute him, but gave him back.... and now he's out. He's so special that Canada violated his Canadian rights. The Americans kept him alive for intel reasons. Nothing special about Khadr, a convicted war criminal and terrorist from Canada. No cross border shopping for him. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
The_Squid Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He's so special that Canada violated his Canadian rights. The Americans kept him alive for intel reasons. Nothing special about Khadr, a convicted war criminal and terrorist from Canada. No cross border shopping for him. Don't worry.... Canada will compensate and recognize the Charter violations. If there was nothing special about him, he would still be a US prisoner.... the fact that he's Canadian made him special enough to give back and set free... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He's so special that Canada violated his Canadian rights. The Americans kept him alive for intel reasons. Nothing special about Khadr, a convicted war criminal and terrorist from Canada. No cross border shopping for him. And no cross border shopping for meritless US law suits. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Don't worry.... Canada will compensate and recognize the Charter violations. If there was nothing special about him, he would still be a US prisoner.... the fact that he's Canadian made him special enough to give back and set free... Canada always does that....after the fact. Canadian war criminals and terrorists belong in Canada for hug-a-thug rehabilitation. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 Canada always does that....after the fact. Canadian war criminals and terrorists belong in Canada for hug-a-thug rehabilitation. Well it beats being tortured in an illegal US prison. Quote
The_Squid Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Canada always does that....after the fact. Canadian war criminals and terrorists belong in Canada for hug-a-thug rehabilitation.That's true... the gov't occasionally needs to be held to account for these violations, and it often is.He certainly isn't a Canadian war criminal... that label is asinine. He was a child soldier and is now free and will likely get plenty of remedy through the courts. Luckily, he's still young enough to get his life back. No cheap goods for him? Oh, how sad... He will be able to afford Canadian retail prices on shoes once he's compensated though.... don't worry... Edited July 7, 2015 by The_Squid Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He certainly isn't a Canadian war criminal... that label is asinine. He was a child soldier and is now free and will likely get plenty of remedy through the courts. Luckily, he's still young enough to get his life back. He's a Canadian and a convicted war criminal...hence he is a Canadian war criminal. Let me guess...he was just minding his own business in Afghanistan trying to sell Girl Guide cookies to all the nice Taliban folks. Buy ten boxes and get a free grenade ! Oh dear...if he can't cross border shop in the United States, then he has lost another Canadian birthright. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted July 7, 2015 Report Posted July 7, 2015 He's a Canadian and a convicted war criminal...hence he is a Canadian war criminal. Let me guess...he was just minding his own business in Afghanistan trying to sell Girl Guide cookies to all the nice Taliban folks. Buy ten boxes and get a free grenade ! Oh dear...if he can't cross border shop in the United States, then he has lost another Canadian birthright. He was convicted by a kangaroo court. A conviction likely soon to be overturned by a proper court. Quote
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