Northern Gateway Pipeline Approved

[On Guard for Thee]

You’ve demonstrated clearly the workings of the world petroleum market and basic economics makes no sense to you….I don’t dispute that...........As has been repeated to you several times, the (three) refineries at the terminus points of Energy East are near capacity already, as such, for Canadians to benefit from the piped bitumen, it would have to be exported to be refined, then shipped back to Canada……..unless refining capacity was increased, but of course, this would have follow on effects for consumers.

What seems to make no sense to you is what should be clearly obvious. Those refineries you speak of are near capacity, (85%) of their capacity is refining oil imported from Saudi etc. So, when you build a pipelone you can take the oil from it and send it into those refineries. Bye bye Saudi oil tankers. Get it?

[bush_cheney2004]

You have Obama bragging that he has put in more pipelines, open up more land for oil, fracked till heart content and nothing said. But here is canada we are not allowed to do anything to help out our own citizens because of a handful of ass holes with pockets loads of foreign money. What gives?

Maybe get your own capital ? Seventy percent of Canadian oil/bitumen production is foreign owned.

Edited June 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

Yep. We should get our own politicians too if we expect things to just...fall into place the way we like.

[Derek 2.0]

What seems to make no sense to you is what should be clearly obvious. Those refineries you speak of are near capacity, (85%) of their capacity is refining oil imported from Saudi etc. So, when you build a pipelone you can take the oil from it and send it into those refineries. Bye bye Saudi oil tankers. Get it?

Again, basic economics and the workings of the petroleum industry are failing you…..The majority of sweet crude refined in the Atlantic provinces is actually form Norway and the United Kingdom (and offshore Newfoundland). The process of refining Alberta bitumen and sour crude is more expensive, requiring more extensive refineries……hence refining Alberta bitumen and/or sour crude would cost more for the producers, and in turn the consumers.

As to “Saudi tankers”, again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The majority of Middle Eastern crude, like Alberta crude (and Venezuelan), is also high in sulphur content, requiring the same extensive process of refinement, which is done in predominantly Texas and Louisiana for the North American market.

[On Guard for Thee]

Again, basic economics and the workings of the petroleum industry are failing you…..The majority of sweet crude refined in the Atlantic provinces is actually form Norway and the United Kingdom (and offshore Newfoundland). The process of refining Alberta bitumen and sour crude is more expensive, requiring more extensive refineries……hence refining Alberta bitumen and/or sour crude would cost more for the producers, and in turn the consumers.

As to “Saudi tankers”, again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The majority of Middle Eastern crude, like Alberta crude (and Venezuelan), is also high in sulphur content, requiring the same extensive process of refinement, which is done in predominantly Texas and Louisiana for the North American market.

TCPL seems to have a different opinion.

[On Guard for Thee]

TCPL seems to have a different opinion.

Maybe scroll down to para. 2.3 and learn some basics.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/infrastructure/5893#h-2-3

[Derek 2.0]

Maybe scroll down to para. 2.3 and learn some basics.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/infrastructure/5893#h-2-3

Reread it before professing "the basics" to me:

Some Eastern Canadian refineries obtain oil supplies from offshore Newfoundland. Canada’s East coast also imports oil from a variety of oil-producing countries. For example, in 2010, most of Eastern Canada’s oil imports came from the countries that are part of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), specifically from Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Angola, Iraq and Venezuela. Some of Eastern Canada’s oil was also imported from North Sea countries, including Norway and the United Kingdom. In addition, oil was imported from Russia, Mexico and the United States.

Now what was the World’s economic health status in 2010? What was the price of oil worldwide and from the Middle East? And of course, would you consider the Middle East more or less stable today, then it was in 2010? And what has happened to the rate of production of both Atlantic Canadian and North Sea oil?

[On Guard for Thee]

Reread it before professing "the basics" to me:

Now what was the World’s economic health status in 2010? What was the price of oil worldwide and from the Middle East? And of course, would you consider the Middle East more or less stable today, then it was in 2010? And what has happened to the rate of production of both Atlantic Canadian and North Sea oil?

I don't quite get why you don't understand that it makes more sense to refine and consume our own oil rather than importing it. It seems quite simple.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't quite get why you don't understand that it makes more sense to refine and consume our own oil rather than importing it. It seems quite simple.

Again, you have a poor understanding of economics and/or fail to understand that Canada (like most modern economies) has a market driven economy.

[On Guard for Thee]

Again, you have a poor understanding of economics and/or fail to understand that Canada (like most modern economies) has a market driven economy.

And it sounds like you don't mind being led around by the nose. Anyway after today's SCC ruling the old Enbridge deal seems to be fading. So now a 180 has occured: instead of "go west young man" it's now "go east".

[Derek 2.0]

And it sounds like you don't mind being led around by the nose. Anyway after today's SCC ruling the old Enbridge deal seems to be fading. So now a 180 has occured: instead of "go west young man" it's now "go east".

Again, a further lacklustre take on the industry……Oil flows (pun intended) to market regardless of compass points.

As to the Supreme Court ruling, perhaps it would be best to reread it……All First Nations have achieved is to be seen as “equals” with other Canadians when getting bent over the barrel (pun again)…….Conveyance and property rights and laws now apply……..

[On Guard for Thee]

 

Again, a further lacklustre take on the industry……Oil flows (pun intended) to market regardless of compass points.

As to the Supreme Court ruling, perhaps it would be best to reread it……All First Nations have achieved is to be seen as “equals” with other Canadians when getting bent over the barrel (pun again)…….Conveyance and property rights and laws now apply……..

 

The signifigance at teh bottom line is you take out the word "consult" and replace it with word "consent"

[Derek 2.0]

   

The signifigance at teh bottom line is you take out the word "consult" and replace it with word "consent"

So your interpretation is that First Nations groups have the same rights to their property, like the rest of Canadians?

[Smallc]

As to the Supreme Court ruling, perhaps it would be best to reread it……All First Nations have achieved is to be seen as “equals” with other Canadians when getting bent over the barrel (pun again)…….Conveyance and property rights and laws now apply……..

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal of it. It changes nothing.

[On Guard for Thee]

So your interpretation is that First Nations groups have the same rights to their property, like the rest of Canadians?

Not under this ruling, but close.

[Smallc]

   

The signifigance at teh bottom line is you take out the word "consult" and replace it with word "consent"

Only on land that has not been ceded.

[Derek 2.0]

Not under this ruling, but close.

Care to demonstrate the rights and laws encompassing property in Canada?

[Derek 2.0]

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal of it. It changes nothing.

It does.....for the better.....ANCSA beget TAPS.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal of it. It changes nothing.

Oh yeah? It's a game changer. There is now a signifigant onus on anybody who wants to do a project on unceded land to prove it is somehow essential.

[Smallc]

It does.....for the better.....ANCSA beget TAPS.

It also confirms that federal and provincial laws apply everywhere in the country, and we're all subjects of the Crown.

[On Guard for Thee]

Care to demonstrate the rights and laws encompassing property in Canada?

Consult is a bit different than consent.

[Smallc]

Oh yeah? It's a game changer. There is now a signifigant onus on anybody who wants to do a project on unceded land to prove it is somehow essential.

There was always the onus to convince aboriginal groups....that didn't change.

[Derek 2.0]

It also confirms that federal and provincial laws apply everywhere in the country, and we're all subjects of the Crown.

Exactly.......On the subject of resource development, it allows First Nations a seat at the grown-ups table……which is beneficial to everyone and much preferred to roadblocks manned by “warriors” and beating drums.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[On Guard for Thee]

There was always the onus to convince aboriginal groups....that didn't change.

Theoretically. Once again, consent is much stronger than consult.

[Derek 2.0]

Consult is a bit different than consent.

How so in relation to Canadian property law?