Northern Gateway Pipeline Approved

[On Guard for Thee]

Why would you say that? If you did your homework, you'd see that TAPS survived the 2002, 7.9 Denali quake….So you are now hoping for divine intervention to support your point?

I wonder where divine intervention was for the Kalamazoo river. That didn't even require an earthquake.

[WestCoastRunner]

...one would have the distinct impression that there has been very little - if any shipping into Kitimat - and that tankers would be undertaking voyages in a tiny channel that winds perilously between numerous islands. It's important to counter these outlandish scare tactics with some basic facts - and I don't care who the source is, as long as the facts are generally accurate.

There has never been supertankers navigating these waters. Why don't you open your minds and absorb some of the information that has been posted instead of brushing it off as scare tactics.

[On Guard for Thee]

Then why would you call this quake timely?

Because it emphasizes my point that earthquakes hapenn in this area, regularly.

[Smallc]

The same could be said to you in reverse. Each point has been made to look far more reasonable with the facts brought to the fore.

[Derek 2.0]

I wonder where divine intervention was for the Kalamazoo river. That didn't even require an earthquake.

"I wonder where divine intervention was for the city of Winnipeg. That didn't even require an earthquake."

[On Guard for Thee]

Why do you think they have a moratorium on tanker traffic in these waters?

[Derek 2.0]

Because it emphasizes my point that earthquakes hapenn in this area, regularly.

Yet you just said:

Nothing to spill where THIS one hapenned. Maps aren't your forte are they?

Are maps not your forte?

[Derek 2.0]

Why do you think they have a moratorium on tanker traffic in these waters?

The same reason Nanaimo and Vancouver are nuclear weapons free zones?

[On Guard for Thee]

Yet you just said:

Are maps not your forte?

Do you actually think there are pipelines in the Aleutian Islands?

[Derek 2.0]

Do you actually think there are pipelines in the Aleutian Islands?

No, you're the one that brought up today's earthquake in the Aleutian Islands to somehow make a "point" on the Northern Gateway...

[On Guard for Thee]

No, you're the one that brought up today's earthquake in the Aleutian Islands to somehow make a "point" on the Northern Gateway...

I thought you knew something about the rign of fire.

https://engwell.wikispaces.com/RING+OF+FIRE+MAP

[Derek 2.0]

I thought you knew something about the rign of fire.

https://engwell.wikispaces.com/RING+OF+FIRE+MAP

Yeah........what of it? As I said, in '02 a 7.9 earthquake didn't destroy TAPS......I'd hazard a guess that pipeline construction technology has improved since the 1970s...So what was your point again?

[On Guard for Thee]

Yeah........what of it? As I said, in '02 a 7.9 earthquake didn't destroy TAPS......I'd hazard a guess that pipeline construction technology has improved since the 1970s...So what was your point again?

My point is that your guess could very well be a hazard.

[Smallc]

There's already a pipeline into Vancouver...isn't that on the Ring of Fire?

Edited June 24, 2014 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

My point is that your guess could very well be a hazard.

Perhaps, but using the fact that TAPS (built in the 1970s) survived the largest interior earthquake in North America in 150 years, it’s a safe guess…….unless of course you feel the engineering of pipelines has regressed in the last ~40 years.

[On Guard for Thee]

There's already a pipeline into Vancouver...isn't that on the Ring of Fire?

Well you now have the map I sent you, have a look. Point being, it's probably not hard to imagine how an earthquake can shake a pipeline apart. When I used to do patrols on the Mackenzie pipe one of the things they looked for was indications the heat of the pipe was melting the permafrost, which could cause the pipe to "float" and possibly break. So I imagine a good lick on the Richter scale could achieve the same. Having been lucky so far with your YVR line shouldn't give us a false sense.

[Derek 2.0]

There's already a pipeline into Vancouver...isn't that on the Ring of Fire?

There sure is, it's terminus is about a 15 minute drive from my home.......aside from a negligent backhoe operator a few years ago, the Trans Mountain pipeline has survived all earthquakes in this region since the 1950s.

[Derek 2.0]

Well you now have the map I sent you, have a look. Point being, it's probably not hard to imagine how an earthquake can shake a pipeline apart. When I used to do patrols on the Mackenzie pipe one of the things they looked for was indications the heat of the pipe was melting the permafrost, which could cause the pipe to "float" and possibly break. So I imagine a good lick on the Richter scale could achieve the same. Having been lucky so far with your YVR line shouldn't give us a false sense.

Yet based on historic evidence, both the Trans Mountain and TAPS pipelines, built in the 1950s and 1970s respectively, haven’t shaken apart…….That of course isn’t to say it could never happen, but of course, the proposed Northern Gateway will have ~40 years of gained engineering advancements incorporated into it‘s design, as such, it will be safer then the above mentioned older pipelines, with the two current pipelines posing a greater threat to shaking apart.

[hitops]

Yet based on historic evidence, both the Trans Mountain and TAPS pipelines, built in the 1950s and 1970s respectively, haven’t shaken apart…….That of course isn’t to say it could never happen, but of course, the proposed Northern Gateway will have ~40 years of gained engineering advancements incorporated into it‘s design, as such, it will be safer then the above mentioned older pipelines, with the two current pipelines posing a greater threat to shaking apart.

Don't distort the issue with the record of a 50 year old pipeline. I know stuff.....earthquakes happen, they break things, I've seen it on TV. Nobody who builds things or lives in BC has ever thought about this or ways to deal with it, that's why every single residential, industrial and commercial property and every piece of infrastructure in that area falls apart and needs to be rebuilt after every earthquake, right? Ha ha see how smart I am. Earthquakes are shaky!

Edited June 24, 2014 by hitops

[On Guard for Thee]

Due to the nature of my career I have been required

Yet based on historic evidence, both the Trans Mountain and TAPS pipelines, built in the 1950s and 1970s respectively, haven’t shaken apart…….That of course isn’t to say it could never happen, but of course, the proposed Northern Gateway will have ~40 years of gained engineering advancements incorporated into it‘s design, as such, it will be safer then the above mentioned older pipelines, with the two current pipelines posing a greater threat to shaking apart.

I understand that technology has improved, for sure. Due to the nature of my career I have been required, quite happilly, to attend classroom training on "risk assesment/management" Of course step one there is dump any politics and deal with the facts as best you know them. And I have no political nor financial with any of the players involved. I just try to apply those same techniques of risk management. When I do that I find "east" is better than "west"

[On Guard for Thee]

Don't distort the issue with the record of a 50 year old pipeline. I know stuff.....earthquakes happen, they break things, I've seen it on TV. Nobody who builds things or lives in BC has ever thought about this or ways to deal with it, that's why every single residential, industrial and commercial property and every piece of infrastructure in that area falls apart and needs to be rebuilt after every earthquake, right? Ha ha see how smart I am. Earthquakes are shaky!

Earthquakes are shaky? Wow you are smart.

[hitops]

Due to the nature of my career I have been required

I understand that technology has improved, for sure. Due to the nature of my career I have been required, quite happilly, to attend classroom training on "risk assesment/management" Of course step one there is dump any politics and deal with the facts as best you know them. And I have no political nor financial with any of the players involved. I just try to apply those same techniques of risk management. When I do that I find "east" is better than "west"

That would be because despite your classroom training, you have not factored in the cost of reduced access to global markets into your calculation.

Speaking of which, what exactly IS your calculation? You know, the one you learned to compose after all that training?

Earthquakes are shaky? Wow you are smart.

I can't take credit, just repeating your argument. Shaky things = pipelines will break. Thanks for the amazing thoughtful and insightful comment. Care to revise it?

Edited June 24, 2014 by hitops

[Derek 2.0]

Don't distort the issue with the record of a 50 year old pipeline. I know stuff.....earthquakes happen, they break things, I've seen it on TV. Nobody who builds things or lives in BC has ever thought about this or ways to deal with it, that's why every single residential, industrial and commercial property and every piece of infrastructure in that area falls apart and needs to be rebuilt after every earthquake, right? Ha ha see how smart I am. Earthquakes are shaky!

I agree, Earthquakes are both bad and scary…….frankly, I feel all is lost and we should abandon the West Coast and move to the prairies.

[waldo]

Yet based on historic evidence, both the Trans Mountain and TAPS pipelines, built in the 1950s and 1970s respectively, haven’t shaken apart…….That of course isn’t to say it could never happen, but of course, the proposed Northern Gateway will have ~40 years of gained engineering advancements incorporated into it‘s design, as such, it will be safer then the above mentioned older pipelines, with the two current pipelines posing a greater threat to shaking apart.

since you're mentioning the Trans-Alaska pipeline surviving that 7.9 quake... and you're emphasizing engineering advancements since it's 1977 build... will the new proposed Kinder Morgan TransMountain pipeline also... at least... build to that 1977 "standard"? With the pipeline above ground supported on telflon 'shoes' free to move across with width of underlying 'slider beams'... like that? Cause that cost $8 billion in 1977 dollars - but it was able to survice the 2002 quake that shifted the fault (through the pipeline corrider) 18 feet horizontally/2.5 feet vertically. And if not, why not? Care to advise what Kinder Morgan included in regards seismic risk as a part of its NEB submission?

.

[waldo]

Earthquakes are shaky? Wow you are smart.

watch it! Careful! Apparently, the guy has some book learnin! So he says, anyway. Just a casual mention while presuming to pump his cred and demean the abilities of any bumpkins silly enough to challenge him!