Fracking, oil development and government welfare

[Argus]

It is always instructional to realize that some people think cause and effect have no connection whatsoever.

Demonstrate how the indian residential schools in Canada caused poverty, alcoholism and drug abuse on indian reservations in the United States.

[eyeball]

The rates of poverty, alcoholism and drug abuse, which, of course, leads to violence and family breakdowns, are FAR higher on reservations in the United States than in the general population, and they never had the same program you're referring to.

Really?

American Indian boarding schools

The number of Native American children in the boarding schools reached a peak in the 1970s, with an estimated enrollment of 60,000 in 1973. Investigations of the later twentieth century have revealed many documented cases of sexual, manual, physical and mental abuse occurring at such schools

Edited May 28, 2014 by eyeball

[jacee]

overthere, on 26 May 2014 - 3:44 PM, said:Maybe we should steal another couple of generations of their children, teach them some manners. right?

Maybe if we'd continued that program natives might have become integrated into society and wouldn't have hugely higher rates of drug addiction, alcoholism, poverty, unemployment, suicide, depression, teenage pregnancies and violence.

I'll put you on the

''IN CANADA, GENOCIDE IS A GOOD THING !"

list.

Next.

[overthere]

Demonstrate how the indian residential schools in Canada caused poverty, alcoholism and drug abuse on indian reservations in the United States.

First you manufacture a strawman, now you want me to dress it up, put on its makeup and go out on a date?

You're the one who claims that several generations of children forcibly removed from their families, has no impact on those families or that culture.

Go ahead and demonstrate that, I'll make some popcorn and settle in for a bit.

[GostHacked]

Sorry, OT, you may not be aware that we established on another thread that colonialism only impacted Africans.

Yeah well, that line of thinking is simply wrong.

Colonialism touched every part of this planet. If it was not the British, it was the Germans, or the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Spaniards, or the Vikings, or the French ....... do I go on?

And colonialism still affects something like the USA today. It's why they are African-Americans. Call it an identity crisis. While in Canada and elsewhere on the planet, you are simply a black person. We don't have African-Canadians.

A black person born in the USA is not African-American. Instead if you are going to use the words, go for American-African. America comes first right??

[Argus]

Really?

American Indian boarding schools

Not quite the same thing. Most of these schools were on the reservation, and the boarding schools were mainy for indians from very small reservations. Few of them were sent their against the wishes of their parents either. And while the article states that some abuse took place, you could say that of any boarding school in the northern hemisphere at that time.

[Argus]

I'll put you on the

''IN CANADA, GENOCIDE IS A GOOD THING !"

list.

Next.

I'll put you on the

"I don't know what genocide means but I'm gonna use it anyway!" list

[Argus]

First you manufacture a strawman, now you want me to dress it up, put on its makeup and go out on a date?

So you don't actually know.

[Smallc]

I'll put you on the

"I don't know what genocide means but I'm gonna use it anyway!" list

Any time you put something like what happened to aboriginals in residential schools in the same category as the holocaust or holomodor...

You make a laughing stock of yourself and cheapen the word and the particular event.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Smallc

[jacee]

Any time you put something like what happened to aboriginals in residential schools in the same category as the holocaust or holomodor...

You make a laughing stock of yourself and cheapen the word and the particular event.

Anytime you fail to comprehend what genocide is, you fail to understand your country.

Argus' suggestion:

Maybe if we'd continued that program [ie, removing children from their families] natives might have become integrated into society ...

Forced assimilation is genocide, as it is done with the intention to destroy a people.

eta: You can call it Canada's 'kinder, gentler' form of genocide, or "cultural genocide" if that makes you feel better. Same thing ... "with intent to destroy" a people.

To reconnect to topic:

The thread is about fracking, opposed by many First Nations who do have constitutional rights to object.

Some people feel the slow genocide should have continued until full assimilation was achieved and all rights as Aboriginal Peoples were suppressed.

Edited May 28, 2014 by jacee

[eyeball]

And while the article states that some abuse took place, you could say that of any boarding school in the northern hemisphere at that time.

So I would have to conclude that the effects of dispossession, attempted genocide, abuse of one way, shape, form or another causes a deep lasting dysfunction in human beings. It's not surprising so much of the planet is in such pretty rough shape when you think about it. There probably isn't a culture or society on Earth that isn't suffering to some degree from PTSD.

Just sucking it up will only go so far I imagine and as I've said before we'll need some sort of grand reconciliation or Kumbiya moment in time, where our roots and what causes them to hurt us so much are painfully obvious to all. How hard can it be to face this down, take a big breath, let it go and start a new day?

We will surely consume ourselves along with everything else if we don't.

[Argus]

The thread is about fracking, opposed by many First Nations who do have constitutional rights to object.

Some people feel the slow genocide should have continued until full assimilation was achieved and all rights as Aboriginal Peoples were suppressed.

What exactly is wrong with assimilation? Canada is full of Germans who don't speak German and know very little about Germany, full of Celts who don't speak Gailic, Ukrainians who have little knowledge of Ukraine, Scots who've never worn a kilt, etc. etc. People have come here from all over the world, from a huge variety of cultural backgrounds, and blended into a single people. Have they retained their previous cultures? Not so much. Would we want them to? The place would be chaos if they did. Imagine eighty seven official languages, and eighty seven different school boards in every city.

Do I feel like I was killed because I don't speak the language of my ancestors or practice their culture? Nope. Languages change over time anyway, and so do cultures. Would a modern day Englishman be able to speak to his English ancestor from a thousand years ago? Would he have the same culture? Of course not!

[jacee]

What exactly is wrong with assimilation? Canada is full of Germans who don't speak German and know very little about Germany, full of Celts who don't speak Gailic, Ukrainians who have little knowledge of Ukraine, Scots who've never worn a kilt, etc. etc. People have come here from all over the world, from a huge variety of cultural backgrounds, and blended into a single people. Have they retained their previous cultures? Not so much. Would we want them to? The place would be chaos if they did. Imagine eighty seven official languages, and eighty seven different school boards in every city.

Do I feel like I was killed because I don't speak the language of my ancestors or practice their culture? Nope. Languages change over time anyway, and so do cultures. Would a modern day Englishman be able to speak to his English ancestor from a thousand years ago? Would he have the same culture? Of course not!

By choice.

Forced assimilation is genocide.

Free will is the issue.

Nobody gets to decide for you, and you don't get to decide for someone else.

.

Edited May 29, 2014 by jacee

[Argus]

By choice.

Forced assimilation is genocide.

Free will is the issue.

Nobody gets to decide for you, and you don't get to decide for someone else.

.

To repeat, languages and cultures change over time. There is no choice involved. That is the natural way of the world. And it make sense and makes it easier for communities to flourish and communicate with each other. The Angles and Saxons once spoke separate languages. Those languages blended, and the two people became one people. That sort of thing happens all over the world, quite naturally. But in Canada we continue to fight the flow of time, not only trying to keep natives separate, but Frenchmen, as well. It serves no purpose but to divide us all into separate groups.

[Smallc]

That's a nice theory but in practice it doesn't apply. The world has always consisted of a dominant culture taking the place of other weaker cultures. It isn't genocide it's reality.

[jacee]

To repeat, languages and cultures change over time. There is no choice involved.

Yes there is choice.

Genocide is illegal now.

http://clg.portalxm.com/library/keytext.cfm?keytext_id=209

.

Edited May 29, 2014 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

Those languages blended, and the two people became one people. That sort of thing happens all over the world, quite naturally.

You make it sound so pleasant. Weren't there years of warring and raids involved though ? That would solve it, I guess.

[PIK]

I wonder what he knows about fracking.

Quite a bit, since he actually researchers his material. Fracking is bringing America's GHG down big time. He also showed the scam with the water pipes spewling gas. And just recently he showed how the people running the anti fracking movement are nothing but scammers selling out to who ever has the money, like the sauds. I can't believe how people have been fooled by all these anti everything groups, to the pt of destroying our country.

[Argus]

That's a nice theory but in practice it doesn't apply. The world has always consisted of a dominant culture taking the place of other weaker cultures. It isn't genocide it's reality.

Even English, which people would call a dominant language, is a wild mixture of words absorbed from many other languages, including derivatives of the original foundation peoples, as well as a lot of French, German, Latin and Swedish. And it too has changed over the years, so much that you wouldn't be able to communicate with your ancestors, assuming you are English. That is the normal process with languages, as it is with cultures, because language is a means to communicate, and it does this far better if everyone speaks and understands it. I don't speak Gaelic. I don't want to. I speak English, and am not sad and forlorn about the 'genocide' to my culture.

[Argus]

Yes there is choice.

Genocide is illegal now.

http://clg.portalxm.com/library/keytext.cfm?keytext_id=209

.

Hahaha! You going to pass a law to keep the earth from rotating and the tide from coming in?

[Argus]

You make it sound so pleasant. Weren't there years of warring and raids involved though ? That would solve it, I guess.

Back then there were ALWAYS wars and raids. But languages tend to blend when communities coexist and interact, not when they're seperate and warring.

[Michael Hardner]

Back then there were ALWAYS wars and raids. But languages tend to blend when communities coexist and interact, not when they're seperate and warring.

In other words, after the conquest ?

[jacee]

I don't speak Gaelic. I don't want to.

That's your choice.

But you don't get to make that choice for others.

[jacee]

In other words, after the conquest ?

.

[Smallc]

That's your choice.

But you don't get to make that choice for others.

Economics and reality does that just fine.