All They Need is a Handgun.

[Wilber]

Not according to other reports:

Loughner was tackled to the ground by 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel Bill Badger, who had been shot himself, and was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm

You mean this?

Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it. Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the 14th injury.Loughner was tackled to the ground by 74-year-old retired United States Army Colonel Bill Badger, who had been shot himself, and was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not draw his firearm.31 shell casings were found at the scene by investigators.

Even the part you posted makes it clear that Zamudio's firearm wasn't a factor.

[bush_cheney2004]

You mean this?

Even the part you posted makes it clear that Zamudio's firearm wasn't a factor.

Zamudio didn't need to use his CCW weapon as he arrived too late. This does not mean that all concealed carry weapons can/would not be a factor in other circumstances.

[Wilber]

Zamudio didn't need to use his CCW weapon as he arrived too late. This does not mean that all concealed carry weapons can/would not be a factor in other circumstances.

You hear that argument all the time but it never seems to happen.

[bush_cheney2004]

You hear that argument all the time but it never seems to happen.

It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. Far more likely are personal encounters wherein CCW holders exercise their rights.

[Wilber]

It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. Far more likely are personal encounters wherein CCW holders exercise their rights.

Oh, that's what they are doing. I thought they were shooting each other.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh, that's what they are doing. I thought they were shooting each other.

Well, we are fresh out of Red Coats and Canadian loyalists. So other Americans will just have to do.

[Wilber]

Well, we are fresh out of Red Coats and Canadian loyalists. So other Americans will just have to do.

Noticed how well that's working for ya.

[bush_cheney2004]

Noticed how well that's working for ya.

It's working out just fine, with more courts affirming citizen rights and states passing CCW laws. The gun homicide rate in the U.S. is down by 49% since 1993.

[On Guard for Thee]

Oh, that's what they are doing. I thought they were shooting each other.

Apparently they are shooting each other. My idea is simply this: when the last American shoots the second to last American, give us a call and we'll slip on down.

[Boges]

We talking about the kid that killed 5 people on Friday? Apparently people were sufficiently worried about this guy's mental state. He was visited by authorities and they didn't search his place. Had they done that they would have found what he used to do what he did.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/california-shootings-victims-all-uc-santa-barbara-students-1.2653517

Stuff like this has happened in Canada. And the rest of the world, I think the US faces huge criticism about it because of the Gun lobby and their ability to neuter any reasonable gun control nationally.

But anyone who thinks gun control will stop crazy people from being crazy are delusional.

[Black Dog]

We talking about the kid that killed 5 people on Friday? Apparently people were sufficiently worried about this guy's mental state. He was visited by authorities and they didn't search his place. Had they done that they would have found what he used to do what he did.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/california-shootings-victims-all-uc-santa-barbara-students-1.2653517

Stuff like this has happened in Canada. And the rest of the world, I think the US faces huge criticism about it because of the Gun lobby and their ability to neuter any reasonable gun control nationally.

But anyone who thinks gun control will stop crazy people from being crazy are delusional.

No one has said that. But what gun control can do is minimize the amount of damage crazies can inflict.

[Wilber]

It's working out just fine, with more courts affirming citizen rights and states passing CCW laws. The gun homicide rate in the U.S. is down by 49% since 1993.

The typical NRA answer. The answer to too many guns is even more guns. Therin lies a fundamental difference between our societies. Canadians value the right to feel safe without having to carry a gun more than they do the right to carry one.

BTW. 500 US children a year are killed by accidental firearms discharges, vs how many mass murders prevented by packing citizens?

Edited May 26, 2014 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

The typical NRA answer. The answer to too many guns is even more guns. Therin lies a fundamental difference between our societies. Canadians value the right to feel safe without having to carry a gun more than they do the right to carry one.

Then why do so many Canadians travel to and live in the United States ? Do they think guns don't work during winter ?

I see no problem with such differences in "our societies". More people emigrate to the U.S. than Canada....always have.

BTW. 500 US children a year are killed by accidental firearms discharges, vs how many mass murders prevented by packing citizens?

Who knows....far more "US children" are killed by other preventable things each year.

Edited May 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

Then why do so many Canadians travel to and live in the United States ? Do they think guns don't work during winter ?

I see no problem with such differences in "our societies". More people emigrate to the U.S. than Canada....always have.

Who knows....far more "US children" are killed by other preventable things each year.

Canadians go south for warm weather and immigrate for economic opportunities. I don't feel particularly unsafe in the US, I just don't want to be part of a society that feels it needs to arm itself.

Yes more children die from other causes, just pointing out privately owned firearms kill a lot more innocent people than their proponents claim they save.

[Black Dog]

Canadians go south for warm weather and immigrate for economic opportunities. I don't feel particularly unsafe in the US, I just don't want to be part of a society that feels it needs to arm itself.

Yes more children die from other causes, just pointing out privately owned firearms kill a lot more innocent people than their proponents claim they save.

Look, man, a lot of those kids that died by accidental gunshots would have just died some other way, like in car accidents or getting shot on purpose.

[Wilber]

Look, man, a lot of those kids that died by accidental gunshots would have just died some other way, like in car accidents or getting shot on purpose.

Of course. Silly me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians go south for warm weather and immigrate for economic opportunities. I don't feel particularly unsafe in the US, I just don't want to be part of a society that feels it needs to arm itself.

That's how the "society" was created, and grew to displace your well armed British Empire on the world stage...guns...and the will to use them. If you travel in the 'states' for livelihood or pleasure, then you seem to want it both ways.

Yes more children die from other causes, just pointing out privately owned firearms kill a lot more innocent people than their proponents claim they save.

Depends on what "saving" means....I am reminded by another member that many thousands of men and women thwart assaults and robberies using their firearms each year in the U.S. Accidental deaths in Canada will get you 60 days....served at just two days a week !

[On Guard for Thee]

Look, man, a lot of those kids that died by accidental gunshots would have just died some other way, like in car accidents or getting shot on purpose.

Hell yeah, we're all gonna die so Praise the lord and Pass the Ammo. It's just fate.

[Wilber]

That's how the "society" was created, and grew to displace your well armed British Empire on the world stage...guns...and the will to use them. If you travel in the 'states' for livelihood or pleasure, then you seem to want it both ways.

Ya, the difference is the British grew out of their wild west days.

Depends on what "saving" means....I am reminded by another member that many thousands of men and women thwart assaults and robberies using their firearms each year in the U.S.

That's a situation you created all by yourselves.

Accidental deaths in Canada will get you 60 days....served at just two days a week !

I agree with you on that particular sentence but in spite of such things, we still have far fewer homicides.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ya, the difference is the British grew out of their wild west days.

...and they lost it all. At least there is still the Queen.

That's a situation you created all by yourselves.

I think that was the point....we choose these things. Canadians choose differently.

I agree with you on that particular sentence but in spite of such things, we still have far fewer homicides.

There are far fewer Canadians than Americans.

[Wilber]

...and they lost it all. At least there is still the Queen.

And you think you will keep yours by shooting each other?

I think that was the point....we choose these things. Canadians choose differently.

True

There are far fewer Canadians than Americans.

Guess I should have specified per capita but I thought you would figure that out yourself.

[bush_cheney2004]

And you think you will keep yours by shooting each other?

It has worked so far. No Queen needed...just guns.

[Bitsy]

One of the biggest problems is the tens of thousands of guns that are illegally smuggled into America from Mexico.

Source, please.

[Wilber]

It has worked so far. No Queen needed...just guns.

The Brits used to hack each other to death with swords, maces and axes and shoot each other with long bows. They grew out of that to.

[Bitsy]

It's working out just fine, with more courts affirming citizen rights and states passing CCW laws. The gun homicide rate in the U.S. is down by 49% since 1993.

The reasons for the decline are of interest.

Why has gun violence fallen so drastically in the past few decades? Pew Research cites a couple of reasons. Gun violence reached its peak in 1993 due in large part to crack cocaine’s influence on the drug market. As crack became a less popular drug and the economy flourished and allowed more citizens in high-crime areas to obtain legitimate jobs, gun violence lessened significantly.

Pew points to other factors as well. In addition to higher rates of incarceration and stricter laws limiting at-risk youth from owning illegal firearms, Pew Research also cited the possibility of the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision preventing gun deaths 20 years later. According to this theory, many youths who would otherwise have grown up in a cycle of poverty and violence were instead aborted, leading to less at-risk youth and young adults on the street. This is simply one possibility among many, however.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gun-violence-down-49-1993-peak-despite-public-perception-high-crime-1243671