Missing Aboriginal Women Enquiry?

[WestCoastRunner]

That's only an opinion though. The report has actual investigative evidence.

Who is that commented directed to?

[Smallc]

Who is that commented directed to?

You

[WestCoastRunner]

That's only an opinion though. The report has actual investigative evidence.

I don't really know what you are referring to in your comment above but if you are referring to Robert Picton, you don't have to look far to see how the Vancouver Police failed the aboriginal women. and their policing efforts.

[Smallc]

I'm referring to the RCMP report showing a pretty much identical solve rate. None of these cases, involving any prostitutes, are ever simple.

[Keepitsimple]

The calls for an enquiry have bubbled up again - with Kathleen Wynne calling it "outrageous" that the Harper government is not advocating an enquiry. This topic to date has covered the fact that almost 90% of cases are solved - on a par with the non-aboriginal solve rate. But what has gone unsaid in the debate is the murder rate for male aboriginals. From a recent Toronto Star article:

The Fontaines were aboriginal. Together, they tell the story of a homicide epidemic that has been ravaging indigenous communities for decades.

Between 1980 and 2012, 14 per cent of female murder victims with a known ethnicity were aboriginal, far exceeding their 4 per cent share of the female population, according to Statistics Canada.

But 17 per cent of male murder victims were also aboriginal during that time. In total, nearly 2,500 aboriginal people were murdered in the past three decades: 1,750 male, 745 female and one person of unknown gender.

One really has to ask what an enquiry will do - and what it's mandate would be - and who would serve on the team. Clearly, poverty, lack of education, and remoteness play a role - ensconced by the backward band system that prevents any collective cohesion. These are the core issues that must be acknowledged and addressed - not by the paternal regulation of the Federal Government - but by a collective will of the over 600 "Nations". If these disparate groups cannot come together in a cohesive fashion for the collective good of all, then these hundreds of "Nations" of less than 100 people are nothing more than squatters with tax dollars.

Do we have the guts to tell it like it is?

Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/22/aboriginal_men_murdered_at_higher_rate_than_aboriginal_women.html

[Big Guy]

The calls for an enquiry have bubbled up again - with Kathleen Wynne calling it "outrageous" that the Harper government is not advocating an enquiry. This topic to date has covered the fact that almost 90% of cases are solved - on a par with the non-aboriginal solve rate. But what has gone unsaid in the debate is the murder rate for male aboriginals. From a recent Toronto Star article:

... Clearly, poverty, lack of education, and remoteness play a role - ensconced by the backward band system that prevents any collective cohesion. These are the core issues that must be acknowledged and addressed -

...

I really find it strange that PM Harper stated that cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women should be viewed as “crimes” rather than a “sociological phenomenon,”. This goes against the grain of everything we have learned.

As I understand his position, he is prepared to pass all kinds of legislation to "tighten" laws against crime but NOT to address the cause. While that makes his position on "law and order" more clear it does not make sense.

It would be like putting all kinds of money into the results of cancer in people rather then trying to find the cause to prevent it.

I really do not understand that position. Perhaps someone with more insight can explain that position to me.

[PIK]

Another liberal feel good inquiry, that will accomplish nothing and cost a lot of money. This is just another ploy to try and make harper look bad.

[TimG]

I really find it strange that PM Harper stated that cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women should be viewed as “crimes” rather than a “sociological phenomenon,”.

Perhaps because they ARE crimes and only the most delusional want to distract from that.

As I understand his position, he is prepared to pass all kinds of legislation to "tighten" laws against crime but NOT to address the cause.

The underlying "cause" is a lot of aboriginals have substance abuse problems and are involved in crimes. There is nothing the government can do about that. If you want to go further, you could say the problem are too many aboriginals are obsessed with their own victim-hood/entitlements and this interferes with their ability to pull themselves out of the cycle that they are trapped in. But no "inquiry" would ever be allow to come to that conclusion even if the evidence supports it.

The only thing that would come out of such an inquiry will be a bunch of claptrap that attempts to deflect blame from the individuals committing the crimes and demand even more money to line the pockets of the wealthy native elite who would "administer" programs that can't possibly solve the problem.

Edited August 25, 2014 by TimG

[Big Guy]

Perhaps because they ARE crimes and only the most delusional want to distract from that.

...

Of course a crime is a crime. What I am questioning is that our PM has decided to attack those who break the law and ignore the reasons why they do so. I do not think I am delusional to understand the process of dealing with any problem. Once you establish the fact that there is a problem then the next automatic step is to find the cause. Then you deal with the cause to alleviate the problem. That

I believe is common sense.

A bridge falls down. You make the area safe and then find out why it happened before you rebuild the bridge.

To blame the aboriginal women for their own fate is to blame any woman for her own rape because she is a woman, blame the guy who just got mugged because he looked like he had money or blaming children who have been assaulted by pedophiles for being children. It does not make sense.

The only other possibility is that some people feel that these aboriginal women bring it upon themselves and deserve being murdered because they are women, perhaps drug dependent and aboriginal. Is that your argument?

I have even seen arguments that these women have chosen to become prostitutes - a very dangerous profession - so it is their fault that they chose that profession, got killed or disappeared.

Is that what an enquiry will find and that is why we should not have one?

[TimG]

A bridge falls down. You make the area safe and then find out why it happened before you rebuild the bridge.

In this case there is a chance that any inquiry would produce useful insights that would guide future developments. There is little chance of an inquiry into "aboriginal women" would produce anything other than platitudes.

To blame the aboriginal women for their own fate is to blame any woman for her own rape because she is a woman, blame the guy who just got mugged because he looked like he had money or blaming children who have been assaulted by pedophiles for being children. It does not make sense.

I am not the one suggesting there is a connection between random crimes. If you want to claim they are random crimes then you are right - the victims are NOT to blame. If you want to insist there is a connection between random crimes it will only come from the generally dysfunctional aboriginal culture. You can dismiss that as "blaming the victim" but sometimes the victim IS to blame.

I have even seen arguments that these women have chosen to become prostitutes - a very dangerous profession - so it is their fault that they chose that profession, got killed or disappeared.

Having dealt personally with addicts I can tell you that the only rational position is to recognize that making bad choices is the fault of the addict. The only way an addict can get better is to make a decision to stop making bad choices and seek help. The role of the government is to make sure help is available whenever an addict decides to seek it. This is one area where the government could do more.

Is that what an inquiry will find and that is why we should not have one?

An inquiry won't find anything that is not already widely known. It would be an exercise in political grandstanding while generating income for professional activists. Edited August 25, 2014 by TimG

[waldo]

Do we have the guts to tell it like it is?

I guess Harper's unwillingness to open an inquiry doesn't aid your gut call... does it? All these comments from Harper Conservative supporters stating an enquiry would never "tell it like it is" are meaningless in the face of Harper's refusal to actually hold an inquiry!

[Black Dog]

Perhaps because they ARE crimes and only the most delusional want to distract from that.

Crime is a sociological phenomenon.

[PIK]

My understanding is 89% of these crimes have been solved with husbands doing a lot of them and the fact that twice as many men are murdered, but nobody cares about that. So really this is about nothing, but to try and make harper look bad.

[Boges]

My understanding is 89% of these crimes have been solved with husbands doing a lot of them and the fact that twice as many men are murdered, but nobody cares about that. So really this is about nothing, but to try and make harper look bad.

I heard Ezra say that today, so immediately that evidence is invalid with this lot.

[PIK]

I heard Ezra say that today, so immediately that evidence is invalid with this lot.

I read it the other day and it was not ezzra. But if he said it, you know he researched it. That is why the left hates him, he actually researches the stories. Edited August 26, 2014 by PIK

[Black Dog]

My understanding is 89% of these crimes have been solved with husbands doing a lot of them and the fact that twice as many men are murdered, but nobody cares about that. So really this is about nothing, but to try and make harper look bad.

OK, so maybe let's look into that too. Cool?

I read it the other day and it was not ezzra. But if he said it, you know he researched it. That is why the left hates him, he actually researches the stories.

Nah, he's human garbage, that's why.

[PIK]

OK, so maybe let's look into that too. Cool?

Nah, he's human garbage, that's why.

Human garbage , for telling the truth? All this is ,is to get the eye off of the chiefs and band councils, who could be the biggest problem for their people.

[waldo]

I read it the other day and it was not ezzra. But if he said it, you know he researched it. That is why the left hates him, he actually researches the stories.

Ezrant does research? Your perpetual gushing for the Ez makes a guy pine for the good old days with Captain Canada and his oft displayed affection for the 'fatherly Harper'

[Black Dog]

Human garbage , for telling the truth?

No for being a piece of garbage in general.

All this is ,is to get the eye off of the chiefs and band councils, who could be the biggest problem for their people.

The majority of these cases happen off reserve, not sure how that's an indictment of the chiefs and band councils exactly.

[Big Guy]

...

The majority of these cases happen off reserve, not sure how that's an indictment of the chiefs and band councils exactly.

An enquiry would be into the reasons why so many aboriginal women disappear or are killed. Everyone seems to agree that poverty is one of the reasons and the way federal money is distributed in bands would then have to come out. Would this not then bring the problem of misuse of funds by chiefs? Does anybody really think that those chiefs and band councils who are misappropriating and misdirecting federal funds want this enquiry?

[PIK]

Ezrant does research? Your perpetual gushing for the Ez makes a guy pine for the good old days with Captain Canada and his oft displayed affection for the 'fatherly Harper'

Ya he does.

[On Guard for Thee]

My understanding is 89% of these crimes have been solved with husbands doing a lot of them and the fact that twice as many men are murdered, but nobody cares about that. So really this is about nothing, but to try and make harper look bad

There are slightly more murdered aboriginal men than women but nowhere near twice as many. StatsCan figures show the difference as 17% vs 14%. However aboriginal women are much more likely to be victoms of violent crimes including spousal abuse which is one ot the concepts behind having the socialogical oriented enquiry. Of course solving idividual crimes will remain with the police.

[Keepitsimple]

From Ezra Levant's column this morning:

.........That's a tragedy, of course. But what's the judicial inquiry for?

The RCMP are not keeping this crisis hidden. In fact, they have gathered quite a bit of information about these murders. Almost 30% of these Aboriginal victims were murdered by their husbands, 23% by another family member. And another 30% were murdered by an acquaintance. So only 8% of Aboriginal women were murdered by strangers. That raises a lot of questions. But not questions best put before an inquiry, or even to Stephen Harper.

The statistics get darker. Of the family members and acquaintances who tend to kill Aboriginal women, 44% of them are drunk, compared to 15% of murderers of non-Aboriginal women. Seventy-four percent of the murderers of Aboriginal women are unemployed - much worse than for the murderers of non-Aboriginal women.

The most infuriating statistic is that 71% of the murderers of Aboriginal women already had a criminal record. Fifty-three percent had been convicted before of a violent crime; 62% had a history of violence with the specific murder victim herself. The alcohol abuse, the social abuse, the lack of jobs, the welfare rates, all point to social ills in Aboriginal communities, particularly reserves. Indian chiefs have some answering to do.

But so does Ottawa. Because so many of these murderers are graduates of our two-tier justice system that gives Aboriginal offenders lighter sentences, or no sentences at all.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/25/a-tragedy-that-doesnt-cry-for-an-inquiry

Edited August 26, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Black Dog]

The most infuriating statistic is that 71% of the murderers of Aboriginal women already had a criminal record. Fifty-three percent had been convicted before of a violent crime; 62% had a history of violence with the specific murder victim herself. The alcohol abuse, the social abuse, the lack of jobs, the welfare rates, all point to social ills in Aboriginal communities, particularly reserves. Indian chiefs have some answering to do.

But but but not a sociological problem.

But so does Ottawa. Because so many of these murderers are graduates of our two-tier justice system that gives Aboriginal offenders lighter sentences, or no sentences at all.

Riiiight. That's why almost a quarter of the federal prison population is Aboriginal despite them making up 4 per cent of the total population.

[waldo]

From Ezra Levant's column this morning:

PIK maintains the irreLevant one does research... where's his data/summary findings to go along with his column? To declare it simply as "RCMP data" is hardly "research worthy"!