Cliven Bundy: deadbeat rancher or media hero?

[Shady]

So the video on TV was doctored somehow?

Probably.

[Smallc]

Probably.

You were there?

[Shady]

You were there?

Sorry, I was more or less just humouring him. Anecdotal so-called video of a smear that Harry Reid started doesn't really mean much. However, I saw a video of one of the BLM suggesting that Bundy's house should be bombed.

[Argus]

The people with guns showed up after the SWAT team did. Which again was completely unnecessary. I don't know what you'd arrest them for though. Legally possessing firearms on private property? *rolls eyes*

You don't think the police would be right to take issue with this guy?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-militia-insight-idINBREA3G26620140417

[Shady]

You don't think the police would be right to take issue with this guy?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-militia-insight-idINBREA3G26620140417

What does take issue mean? Regardless, I think it's against the law to point a firearm at a law enforcement officer. If he did that, they should find out who he is and arrest him or charge him. If he didn't, and he isn't breaking any law, then there's no issue to be taken. Anyways, like I've already said, you garnish wages, or put liens on property. Fully armed SWaT teams aren't needed to resolve basic tax issues. That's my opinion. However, it doesn't mean that I agree with this Bundy fellow, or any of his supporters. Some people for some reason think that's the case.

[kimmy]

That's just an urban legend. Never happened. Let's everybody try and stick to facts here.

The facts:

“We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front,” he said. “If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

-Bundy ally Richard Mack, on Fox News.

Surely Fair And Balanced wouldn't edit the video to make Bundy and his mooks look bad. Fox News had been trying to make the guy into a hero, right until the part where he started talking about "Negroes" anyway.

Video also shows the "protester" pointing his AR15 at people between the barriers on the bridge, btw.

-k

[kimmy]

Good point, looks like they've already been garnishing wages. One has to wonder exactly what the point was of sending a SWAT team in to kill cattle. I guess some kind of show of force. Not very smart in my opinion. Garnishment and liens would be sufficient.

And again: how long do you imagine that this withered old fool is going to live that the government would be able to recover what they are owed by garnishing his social services cheques? He apparently thinks he's a prophet, but even if he lives as long as Noah, his social security cheques aren't going to add up to $1.2 million.

The premise that they went there to kill cattle is false. They went there to impound the cattle, and they had over 100 cattle impounded. Six cattle died during the round-up, which might be evidence that the BLM agents are crappy cowboys, but doesn't match with your claim that they went there with the intention of killing cattle.

Unless... maybe they were being impounded so they could be taken to a FEMA Death Camp! That's it, right Gost?

-k

[Shady]

And again: how long do you imagine that this withered old fool is going to live that the government would be able to recover what they are owed by garnishing his social services cheques? He apparently thinks he's a prophet, but even if he lives as long as Noah, his social security cheques aren't going to add up to $1.2 million.

The premise that they went there to kill cattle is false. They went there to impound the cattle, and they had over 100 cattle impounded. Six cattle died during the round-up, which might be evidence that the BLM agents are crappy cowboys, but doesn't match with your claim that they went there with the intention of killing cattle.

Unless... maybe they were being impounded so they could be taken to a FEMA Death Camp! That's it, right Gost?

-k

I don't suspect he'll live all that long. That's why I mentioned putting a lein on his property. What part of that didn't you get? I mentioned it half a dozen times. Hoping he'll live a long time makes about as much sense as auctioning off his cattle. It amounts to the same thing. Unless of course you think they'll be able to auction his cattle for the next hundred years.

His land is much more valuable. I guess we can agree to disagree.

[Shady]

Fox News had been trying to make the guy into a hero, right until the part where he started talking about "Negroes" anyway.

That's not true. Some people posed the same question I have. Others barely covered the story. And as your video clearly states, that's not making him look like a hero now is it? That video is before any such Negro talk.

Edit: Thanks for posting the video though. I don't know why it was such a problem for the previous person to make a claim, but make zero attempt to illustrate it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Shady

[kimmy]

I don't suspect he'll live all that long. That's why I mentioned putting a lein on his property. What part of that didn't you get? I mentioned it half a dozen times. Hoping he'll live a long time makes about as much sense as auctioning off his cattle. It amounts to the same thing. Unless of course you think they'll be able to auction his cattle for the next hundred years.

His land is much more valuable. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Seizing his cattle and removing them from public land wasn't a bad idea. It was a perfectly reasonable course of action. It only became a "bad idea" after a militia arrived to prevent them from doing it.

Any reason to think that attempting to seize his property wouldn't also be met by a militia of "patriots" with AR15s?

I can agree that the situation has not been handled very well. It should have been dealt with a long time ago. However, the facts are this: when the BLM went in to enforce a court order to impound his cattle, this guy declared "the range war is on!" and this militia arrived, giving the BLM little choice other than to back down.

The rule of law should not be trumped by a militia of mooks.

That's not true. Some people posed the same question I have. Others barely covered the story. And as your video clearly states, that's not making him look like a hero now is it? That video is before any such Negro talk.

Edit: Thanks for posting the video though. I don't know why it was such a problem for the previous person to make a claim, but make zero attempt to illustrate it.

So if I check out Hannity's pre-"the Negro" coverage, I won't find Hannity calling Bundy a patriot, or depicting him as a hard working American businessman being stomped under the foot of Big Government?

Of course *now* they say "hey, we're not supporting Bundy, we just think this is an example of excess force being used by the government". This is, after all, the same Hannity who said that waterboarding isn't a big deal and said he'd be willing to waterboarded any time to prove it (but never did). After all this is the network that defended the cop who peppersprayed all those students because pepper spray is basically just a condiment.

-k

[Shady]

Seizing his cattle and removing them from public land wasn't a bad idea. It was a perfectly reasonable course of action. It only became a "bad idea" after a militia arrived to prevent them from doing it.

Any reason to think that attempting to seize his property wouldn't also be met by a militia of "patriots" with AR15s?

I can agree that the situation has not been handled very well. It should have been dealt with a long time ago. However, the facts are this: when the BLM went in to enforce a court order to impound his cattle, this guy declared "the range war is on!" and this militia arrived, giving the BLM little choice other than to back down.

The rule of law should not be trumped by a militia of mooks.

So if I check out Hannity's pre-"the Negro" coverage, I won't find Hannity calling Bundy a patriot, or depicting him as a hard working American businessman being stomped under the foot of Big Government?

Of course *now* they say "hey, we're not supporting Bundy, we just think this is an example of excess force being used by the government". This is, after all, the same Hannity who said that waterboarding isn't a big deal and said he'd be willing to waterboarded any time to prove it (but never did). After all this is the network that defended the cop who peppersprayed all those students because pepper spray is basically just a condiment.

-k

In my opinion seizing cattle was a bad idea. Several died, I'm not sure how that happens, is that going to be subtracted from what he owes? Or are they going to reimburse him for that. But like I said, it's a good idea of you think they should be seizing cattle for the next hundred years, if not longer. Putting a lien on his property takes care of much of the debt, without any of the trouble.

As for Hannity, yep he did before all the other stuff. I don't consider Hannity as all of Fox News. He's one person. Much of the rest didn't do the same. So I'm not sure why you discount that. I guess it doesn't fit your stereotype. Anyways, like I said, we can agree to disagree.

[GostHacked]

The people with guns showed up after the SWAT team did. Which again was completely unnecessary. I don't know what you'd arrest them for though. Legally possessing firearms on private property? *rolls eyes*

This is correct. The militia was an answer to the SWAT teams and heavily armed BLM agents. They have their own SWAT team? That's kind of telling of how much power the BLM has.

[GostHacked]

So the video on TV was doctored somehow?

I would bet money on it. Like how they took Bundy's racist remarks out of context. They did not show the whole video, which he questioned if blacks were better on welfare or as slaves. That's not being racist.

[kimmy]

In my opinion seizing cattle was a bad idea. Several died, I'm not sure how that happens, is that going to be subtracted from what he owes? Or are they going to reimburse him for that. But like I said, it's a good idea of you think they should be seizing cattle for the next hundred years, if not longer. Putting a lien on his property takes care of much of the debt, without any of the trouble.

As for Hannity, yep he did before all the other stuff. I don't consider Hannity as all of Fox News. He's one person. Much of the rest didn't do the same. So I'm not sure why you discount that. I guess it doesn't fit your stereotype. Anyways, like I said, we can agree to disagree.

Seizing the cattle also prevents him from accumulating more fees and fines, considering the cattle are not supposed to be there. It seems like the obvious first step.

-k

[GostHacked]

Unless... maybe they were being impounded so they could be taken to a FEMA Death Camp! That's it, right Gost?

-k

I would kindly tell you off here. You are better than this Kimmy.

[kimmy]

I would bet money on it. Like how they took Bundy's racist remarks out of context. They did not show the whole video, which he questioned if blacks were better on welfare or as slaves. That's not being racist.

If you're asking whether they were better off as slaves, you're a racist. Full stop. If you're saying they haven't got anything to do because they never learned to pick cotton, you're a racist. Period. No amount of "context" changes it.

As for the dude talking about putting the women at the front: he said it.

-k

[kimmy]

I would kindly tell you off here. You are better than this Kimmy.

You're right, that was unnecessary.

-k

[Shady]

Seizing the cattle also prevents him from accumulating more fees and fines, considering the cattle are not supposed to be there. It seems like the obvious first step.

-k

Fair enough. They may want to hire professionals in the future though, that don't kill several in the process.

[Boges]

I would bet money on it. Like how they took Bundy's racist remarks out of context. They did not show the whole video, which he questioned if blacks were better on welfare or as slaves. That's not being racist.

No, I'd say that's pretty racist. And I did see that portion of the video. Of course black people aren't better off as slaves.

[GostHacked]

As for the dude talking about putting the women at the front: he said it.

-k

I agree that was a stupid thing to say and do. But in a way the tactic would work. The agents would more likely fire on men compared to women or children. It's not smart, I will agree with that. It's actually cowardice in action.

[GostHacked]

No, I'd say that's pretty racist. And I did see that portion of the video. Of course black people aren't better off as slaves.

Are natives better of on reserves? <-- Is that a racist comment?

[Boges]

The United States fought a civil war to remove slavery. Any attempt by anyone to seem nostalgic about how things were before that war seems to shouted down as racist. I agree with that.

[Argus]

This is correct. The militia was an answer to the SWAT teams and heavily armed BLM agents. They have their own SWAT team? That's kind of telling of how much power the BLM has.

More likely a response to the kind of armed wack jobs they have to deal with.

[Remiel]

This is beyond insane. This guy should be tried for sedition.

[kimmy]

Are natives better of on reserves? <-- Is that a racist comment?

Are you really comparing reserves to slavery? Are you MENTAL? BTW, natives are free to decide for themselves if they would be better off if they left the reserve. They can choose to do that.

-k