Princeton Study Concludes US is an Oligarchy not a Democracy

[cybercoma]

Link to the study here.

Authors Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page from Princeton University conducted a multivariate analysis on the influence of various groups on US government policies. They found that average citizens and mass-based interest groups had little to no effect on policy outcomes, whilst economic elites and organized groups representing business interests had a large and significant effect on policy. The article clarifies what they mean by economic elite (90th percentile income earners) and what kinds of interest groups fall under their different categories (in the appendices). Essentially, the article concludes that the US policy is driven by the economic elite and business interests, while the average person has little to no influence whatsoever. Looks like the government truly is for sale to the highest bidders.

[bush_cheney2004]

U.S. policy has always been driven by economic interests. The study set out to prove the obvious.

[cybercoma]

The major take away from the study is summarized on page 23:

"When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it."

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. government is not run by what the majority opinion desires or "favors". Again...obvious stuff.

[waldo]

Looks like the government truly is for sale to the highest bidders.

the best U.S. Government that money can buy... protected and certified by 5 conservative justices of the U.S. Supreme Court!

[cybercoma]

The U.S. government is not run by what the majority opinion desires or "favors". Again...obvious stuff.

Yes. Incredibly obvious stuff. So obvious that they should burn the Gettysberg Address because Lincoln is rolling over in his grave.

Edited April 15, 2014 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes. Incredibly obvious stuff. So obvious that they should burn the Gettysberg Address because Lincoln is rolling over in his grave.

Let him roll....only the most naive person would understand the workings of U.S. or state/local government in any other way. Other nations operate in a similar fashion.

[cybercoma]

Why have elections at all then? If you're saying that the government only operates in the interests of the wealthy and business, then voting is completely unnecessary. Just have a panel of business elites guide policy. That's what is happening anyway.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why have elections at all then? If you're saying that the government only operates in the interests of the wealthy and business, then voting is completely unnecessary. Just have a panel of business elites guide policy. That's what is happening anyway.

No...you don't understand how it works. Monied interests compete with each other as well. Voters get to participate in the process as enablers of the preferred business interests. If you would like no business interest influence, then move to Somalia.

[cybercoma]

Who said anything about "no business interest influence"? Maybe read the study and what I actually wrote before making foolish statements.

[Michael Hardner]

I gleaned the study - it makes reference to historical data but I didn't see it shown. Are things, indeed, different today ? That's my question.

The richest man in America at the birth of the nation was.... George Washington.

[bush_cheney2004]

I gleaned the study - it makes reference to historical data but I didn't see it shown. Are things, indeed, different today ? That's my question.

The richest man in America at the birth of the nation was.... George Washington.

No...it is not any different..except that women and "black" people get to vote too.

[bleeding heart]

Somalia's politics are intensely affected by "business interests," obviously, albeit mostly at the local level of relatively small business (organized crime and the like).

[Michael Hardner]

No...it is not any different..except that women and "black" people get to vote too.

Well, it's a matter of numbers - you do understand that don't you ? Numbers tell you how MUCH of something there is. For example, tax rates.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, it's a matter of numbers - you do understand that don't you ? Numbers tell you how MUCH of something there is. For example, tax rates.

Fine...let's all pretend to be shocked that the U.S. is not a true "democracy".

[Michael Hardner]

Fine...let's all pretend to be shocked that the U.S. is not a true "democracy".

I don't think anybody should be shocked, as these things happen gradually over years. But at a certain point, we all need to agree that the once-tepid water the frog was in has heated up, and he is now truly boiled.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think anybody should be shocked, as these things happen gradually over years. But at a certain point, we all need to agree that the once-tepid water the frog was in has heated up, and he is now truly boiled.

The U.S. was never a true democracy....that is by design. We still have plenty of other frogs...some with six legs.

[Argus]

Fine...let's all pretend to be shocked that the U.S. is not a true "democracy".

I'm not shocked by it at all, but I'd think Americans would care more about it.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not shocked by it at all, but I'd think Americans would care more about it.

Some do...most don't. Celebrity gossip is more interesting to many. We really hate those damn campaign ads messing up "Dancing With The Stars".

[Shady]

The major take away from the study is summarized on page 23:

Did they provide any examples?

[Shady]

I don't think anybody should be shocked, as these things happen gradually over years. But at a certain point, we all need to agree that the once-tepid water the frog was in has heated up, and he is now truly boiled.

Not really. If you examine the history of the country, you'll find periods of the same type of thing. Has everyone forgot about the trust busting of Roosevelt, or the Robber Barons, etc? Besides, with the internet, facebook, Twitter, etc, there's never been an easier time for the average person to reach and influence millions of people.

[Argus]

Some do...most don't. Celebrity gossip is more interesting to many. We really hate those damn campaign ads messing up "Dancing With The Stars".

Sadly, you're not altogether wrong.

What's even more sad is that the only new, powerful, citizen movement to reform politics, that being the Tea Party, which was born of outrage over government money going to rich corporations was very quickly taken over and guided into an organization dedicated to enhancing the power and profits of rich corporations. Its various branches are now owned and operated, like political franchises, by a variety of millionaires and billionaires.

[Argus]

Did they provide any examples?

How about a national, single payer, government run health care program, which the majority of Americans have wanted for a very long time? Or how about campaign finance reform?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Not really. If you examine the history of the country, you'll find periods of the same type of thing. Has everyone forgot about the trust busting of Roosevelt, or the Robber Barons, etc? Besides, with the internet, facebook, Twitter, etc, there's never been an easier time for the average person to reach and influence millions of people.

I agree that without historical context and numbers, we're without an anchor in this conversation.

[eyeball]

I don't think anybody should be shocked, as these things happen gradually over years. But at a certain point, we all need to agree that the once-tepid water the frog was in has heated up, and he is now truly boiled.

Boiled maybe but not quite yet dead, it still has to swell up a little first.

I wouldn't stand too close to that if I were you.

Edited April 16, 2014 by eyeball