waldo Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Please review this thread: Trim Your Posts and Quotes . . We can appreciate adding context to a post. However, when said context is presented with inflammatory language and personal attacks BEFORE the substance of the discussion is addressed, then the troll-o-meter starts clicking. what manufactured brand/model of 'troll-o-meter' do you use... and how have you set its measuring criteria? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 So how about a survey asking people who they think are trolls here? See if we get clarity or a 15 way tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Probably a no-go for personal attack reasons...like a survey asking members who they think whines and stomp their feet the most about "trolls". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Probably a no-go for personal attack reasons...like a survey asking members who they think whines and stomp their feet the most about "trolls".Besides, we don't need a survey. The forum is pretty much unanimous on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 what manufactured brand/model of 'troll-o-meter' do you use... and how have you set its measuring criteria? . Reiterating posts is trolling now, but interjecting BS claims about Canada when they're off topic isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Any idiot can see quite plainly that the world is flat. That is an archetypical troll post. It's one not believed by the writer, and is put in place purely to arouse indignant responses. It's an obvious troll post and won't inspire any legitimate discussion, nor is the writer interested in doing more than toying with those who respond. Oh, you think the world is round? Well, prove it! No, pictures won't do. They can easily be altered! Something as obvious as this wouldn't likely engender much bother. But it doesn't take an awful lot of subtlety to get angry responses. Please note that simply saying something insulting is not trolling. It's insulting. Trolling and insulting are not, as some seem to assume, synonyms. Being disrespectful is not trolling either. Mockery and sneering are not trolling. Trolling is quite a specific act. It's often used here to derail a conversation. Wow, sure is sunny out I love this weather It's a little warmer than usual. Yes, but not very humid. Boy, Canada sure is a stupid place. What? Canada isn't stupid. Your country is stupid. Your country is full of cretins! But my country has more people than yours. Your country is racist! See how a nice conversation on the pleasant weather gets derailed? That's trolling. Edited June 10, 2015 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 But my country has more people than yours. Your country is racist! See how a nice conversation on the pleasant weather gets derailed? That's trolling. Yes...but your original post included "genocide". So is the entire TRC thread all about trolling ? Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Yes...but your original post included "genocide". So is the entire TRC thread all about trolling ? Interesting.... I didn't want to blend two different troll subjects into one topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 A thread was recently 'locked' due to perceived insults. I believe that the thread just involved posters who were passionately involved in the topic under discussion. The thread was locked right in the middle of discussions and caused me personally great frustration that I couldn't carry on the debate. It was in my opinion, a callous disregard for the posters involved in the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 There is an old joke about a young bull and an old bull that involves cows but I'm sure that would not be appropriate here. Anyway, the point is, sometimes it's good to take a breather to let things settle down, have people rethink things, regroup, and then go back at it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 There is an old joke about a young bull and an old bull that involves cows but I'm sure that would not be appropriate here. Anyway, the point is, sometimes it's good to take a breather to let things settle down, have people rethink things, regroup, and then go back at it later. Poor excuse to lock a thread. I didn't see any knives drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 You're pretty new here, so your frame of reference is pretty limited. It was not always like this. There was much more participation, a lot more leeway with the conversation, and a lot less interference by the moderators. I've been a member here since 2004. For ten years, I never got a single warning, in the last year I've had three. Never once was there an indication that I was operating outside the rules, now all of a sudden I supposedly am. My posting content and style has not changed in that time, but the moderation certainly has. It WASN'T broke before, but now they are tryng to fix it. What they are doing is screwing it up. The "don't like it, move on" part is the most contentious issue, because the membership here is a small fraction of what it was just a few years ago, and the moderation appears to be determined to get that number as close to zero as possible as fast as they can. This is quite similar to my experience here as well. it's almost as if the forum has received some kind of official complaint or warning from a human rights tribunal or something. They've clamped down on the silliest things and somehow expect it won't be noticed. And yes, the membership has dwindled down to probably a tenth of what it once was. Quite the success story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Edition 57 of issue......trolls are good for traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Besides, we don't need a survey. The forum is pretty much unanimous on it. there was a guy here who used to quite regularly tout his board trolling shtick... wore it as a badge of honor and a testament to his prolific board presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Edition 57 of issue......trolls are good for traffic. really? How's that been working out here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sharkman asserts that there is bias regarding anti-Muslim vs anti-Christian opinions. I take this seriously, as I was raised *devoutly* Christian, and I try very hard to mitigate prejudice against religious people. I am simply saying that posts critical of the Muslim faith are held to a different standard than ones critical of the Christian faith. I challenged you to show me these threads where ALL Muslims are called terrorists or otherwise painted with the same brush as I've pointed out Christianity is. Since you can't find any, you should at least concede the point. https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22muslims+are%22+site%3Awww.mapleleafweb.com%2Fforums&oq=%22muslims+are&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57.4287j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 Ok, have a look for yourself. It's true that it's hard to find people who say "all Muslims are extremists" but that would be an indefensible position. Still, some do agree with these views (http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/14592-views-of-islam/?p=452460) and some who make general statements with regards to violence (). We have threads were people criticize "groups", and sometimes it verges on insults. It's pretty tricky to deal with. An out an out insult based on race would probably be removed, but beyond that it might stay depending on the argument. I don't see any examples where Christians/Muslim criticism is handled differently though. The one example Sharkman gave was not clear: he stated that the poster made an anti-Christian statement but the poster clearly criticized both Islam and Christianity. Sharkman didn't reply when that was pointed out. I put about 15 minutes into this and didn't find any obvious examples. Keep in mind that if the moderators don't act on something, it's quite possible that we didn't see it... and therefore that you didn't report it. How would you have us handle such items, as a rule ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 The forum is pretty much unanimous on it. For the record, there are two sides and two stories: one side has their "obvious troll" and the other side has theirs too. Ironically, the complaints are also similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Any internet forum will always have trolls on it or people who maybe like to try to anger other posters. It will never go away. I think that if the moderators banned everyone who someone thought was a troll we'd have no one on this board at all. I'm sure everybody would point to everyone else at one time or another. Seems to me that some people are far too sensitive, no matter the particular political stripe. This is a place for discussion with almost every poster having a slightly differing opinion, just like the real world. I suggest we all get used to not always agreeing with everyone and not get offended. We all know that people in our society are constantly being offended. Well, you're going to be offended, so just get used to it and get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nobody gets a 'pass' Keep repeating that until you believe it. You're not fooling anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nobody gets a 'pass', and we try to be as impartial as we can when deciding. nobody? Oh my! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Besides, we don't need a survey. The forum is pretty much unanimous on it. If there was an actual survey, I'm sure you'd find the forum much less unanimous about it than you think. Just because the clique of people you agree with has identified someone as a troll, doesn't mean that others agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think the board would be better served by cutting down on things like this; "We have Harper, a sociopath", but it seems the people who complain most about a certain troll care much less about incredibly stupid statements or outright lies than they do trolling. Which is unsurprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Keep repeating that until you believe it. You're not fooling anyone. nobody? Oh my! Would you two like to PM each other and nominate somebody for us to look at again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Would you two like to PM each other and nominate somebody for us to look at again ? Why, so you can just say you don't find any reason to believe that person is trolling, and hand out a warning point for making the observation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Why, so you can just say you don't find any reason to believe that person is trolling, and hand out a warning point for making the observation? Here's an example: Sharkman stated in a thread that we treat anti-Muslim and anti-Christian comments differently. His example of that made no sense (it was a post that criticized BOTH religions) so I went to Google to see what the results were. It took me about 20 minutes to look at 10 pages of search results. I found more about what people say about groups (eg. they couch their terms in softened terms like "many Christians" "most Muslims" etc.) than how we treat groups on the site, so my search wasn't definitive. But I bring up this example to show you that I do take these questions seriously, and I look at different points that are brought up. Also, Charles, Greg and I by no means agree with each other, or are unchanging individually in our views. It's a dialogue, a discussion. The final assertion: that I would hand out a warning point for asking the question is, I guess, just a winking jab. I'd feel better if you guys didn't throw those out there. If you want to express your disappreciation for the work we do and make me feel bad, though, you can continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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