BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[Hal 9000]

Nonsense, you haven't been paying attention it was over 3 months. The government kept them out, kept the bargaining process to a standstill until they had saved enough money from teachers' salaries(165 million). Once they reached their magic number, they pulled E80 off the table and started negotiating.

The deal is almost the same deal that was offered before school was to begin. Sure, the BCTF saved the gov't some money, but the teachers themselves would've come out better had they settled earlier.

The teachers did this for the kids...right? So, why all the angst?

P.S - Don't take it out on me if you and your wife are pissed - talk to Mr. Iker.

[TimG]

Once they reached their magic number, they pulled E80 off the table and started negotiating.

The sticking point for the government was the wage package. They needed the BCTF to accept the package which other unions agreed to. Once the BCTF basically accepted that package they moved on the other issues. This is what I said would happen 2+ months ago and this is what happened. The only party to blame for the drawn out strike was the BCTF who was too stupid to understand that the government had absolutely no room to negotiate on the wage package.

[overthere]

I was a Christy Clark fan but no longer. This was a fiasco and the end result is that there is still no resolution to class size and class composition.

You're just being pouty now, did you think the techers would get everything? Ah, I see why. It's because they always have in the past.

The end result is actually that the govt kept within its fiscal means, or at least has not added materially to the $60 billion BC provincial debt.

Would you admire your leader again if she only made the easy decisions?

[sharkman]

The deal is almost the same deal that was offered before school was to begin. Sure, the BCTF saved the gov't some money, but the teachers themselves would've come out better had they settled earlier.

The teachers did this for the kids...right? So, why all the angst?

P.S - Don't take it out on me if you and your wife are pissed - talk to Mr. Iker.

That conveniently forgets E80. Some of you posters seem to be overlooking this for some odd reason. Negotiations were dead in the water until that thing was taken off the table.

[overthere]

Follow

The

Money

[cybercoma]

In my discussion about winners/losers in this strike, I forgot one group. The NDP. I would give them a temporary losing grade. Why?

Why? Probably because you're afraid you'll burst into flames if you said anything positive about them.

[Pct2017]

I never saw the actual language that was contained in the infamous E80/E81, but as I understand it, it was a clause that would have allowed EITHER party to reopen the contract once the appeals had run their course. Now, again, I have no access to the proposed deal that the whiny teachers are voting on toady, but news reports have it that there is a clause in the settlement that will allow EITHER party to adjust the contract once the appeals have run their course. What am I missing here?

[Pct2017]

Why? Probably because you're afraid you'll burst into flames if you said anything positive about them.

Please enlighten me (get the pun?) and give me the details on how the NDP gained any political points in their role in this debacle.

[TimG]

That conveniently forgets E80. Some of you posters seem to be overlooking this for some odd reason. Negotiations were dead in the water until that thing was taken off the table.

As I said above: E80 is irrelevant spin.

The sticking point for the government was the wage package. They needed the BCTF to accept the package which other unions agreed to. Once the BCTF basically accepted that package they moved on the other issues. This is what I said would happen 2+ months ago and this is what happened. The only party to blame for the drawn out strike was the BCTF who was too stupid to understand that the government had absolutely no room to negotiate on the wage package.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TimG

[cybercoma]

Please enlighten me (get the pun?) and give me the details on how the NDP gained any political points in their role in this debacle.

Who knows? I don't follow BC politics. I just like how you pretend that your opinion was going to be unbiased, when everyone knows you would never say a good thing about the NDP anyway.

[sharkman]

You're just being pouty now, did you think the techers would get everything? Ah, I see why. It's because they always have in the past.

The end result is actually that the govt kept within its fiscal means, or at least has not added materially to the $60 billion BC provincial debt.

Would you admire your leader again if she only made the easy decisions?

Look, you don't know our premier, you only see little soundbites in the Manitoba news now and then. She did absolutely nothing for this dispute, she didn't have to delegate anything, the Education minister does that. My favourite quote from him was when he was asked if students would lose anything with the time they've missed. Even the biggest fanboy can laugh at the following, "We have guaranteed that the educational journey will remain whole". Talk about tip toeing around the question.

[sharkman]

As I said above: E80 is irrelevant spin.

The sticking point for the government was the wage package. They needed the BCTF to accept the package which other unions agreed to. Once the BCTF basically accepted that package they moved on the other issues. This is what I said would happen 2+ months ago and this is what happened. The only party to blame for the drawn out strike was the BCTF who was too stupid to understand that the government had absolutely no room to negotiate on the wage package.

Nonsense, the government didn't want this deal done until now. That's why they took E80 off the table. Iker was willing to negotiate during Ready's first attempt, he threw 125 million on the table, but the government did absolutely nothing in response, so Ready walked out.

[TimG]

Nonsense, the government didn't want this deal done until now. That's why they took E80 off the table. Iker was willing to negotiate during Ready's first attempt, he threw 125 million on the table, but the government did absolutely nothing in response, so Ready walked out.

You are in complete denial. The BC Government needed the BCTF to accept the standard wage package - full stop. Throwing $125 million on the table was a completely meaningless gesture because it still meant the BCTF was rejecting the standard package.

As soon as the BCTF accepted the wage package the deal was done. E80 is an irrelevant distraction used by union hacks who can't admit the entire debacle is the union's fault.

[sharkman]

They were close WRT the wage package at least 3 weeks ago.

[TimG]

They were close WRT the wage package at least 3 weeks ago.

As I said, close was not good enough and anyone with any sense would have understood that the government had no room to move on the wage package. It is no coincidence that a deal was done as soon as the union accepted the government's wage package. E80 is a distraction.

[sharkman]

The BCTF stopped negotiating on the wage package when it became clear that the government was not willing to move on E80. After E80 was off the table, the government moved on the wage package.

[TimG]

The BCTF stopped negotiating on the wage package when it became clear that the government was not willing to move on E80.

Excuses. The government did not move on the wage package. All they did is offer slightly higher compensation for a longer deal. When the union agreed - E80 came off the table.

E80 was never the issue but the union wants to pretend it was because they don't want to admit that their pigheadedness cost teachers thousands of dollars in lost wages.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TimG

[sharkman]

I think your hatred of all things union is colouring your perspective somewhat there, Tim. Maybe you should forgo any more long weekends, those despicable union contraptions! I hope you don't eat meat, somewhere in the industry bringing it to the dinner table is a damn union worker, personally ripping you off.

Whatever though, call it anything you want, you're not the first person to think this way.

Edited September 18, 2014 by sharkman

[Wilber]

As I said, close was not good enough and anyone with any sense would have understood that the government had no room to move on the wage package. It is no coincidence that a deal was done as soon as the union accepted the government's wage package. E80 is a distraction.

The government did move on the wage package. They moved quite a bit. While there is almost no difference in the total percentage, the government's offer was back loaded to have the biggest increases at the end of the contract. The agreement gives almost half of it by the first of next year.

The 400 million now goes to the teachers and will not have to be split with CUPE. Elementery teachers will get more prep time.

E80 is gone.

The teachers did make some gains over what the government was offering. Certainly not what they were asking but that wasn't realistic anyway. We should be asking both parties, what took you so long?

For those who use private school's, that's up to them but it doesn't have anything to do with the public system. On the other hand, the agreements public school teachers make with the government have a lot to do with how private school teachers are compensated.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Wilber

[overthere]

Excuses. The government did not move on the wage package. All they did is offer slightly higher compensation for a longer deal. When the union agreed - E80 came off the table.

E80 was never the issue but the union wants to pretend it was because they don't want to admit that their pigheadedness cost teachers thousands of dollars in lost wages.

You have to throw him a bone.........

Let him think whatever he needs to lessen the sting, the waste of months unpaid.

It's like puppy love.... it seems frivolous to others but it is still important to the puppy.

[Pct2017]

Teachers have voted 86% yes. Kids back in school Monday. Now what do we talk about? I will kind of miss this.

[sharkman]

You'll miss it, eh?

[socialist]

I've heard there are a lot of angry teachers. But I'm glad to see them go back for the kids. The BC Liberals have lost a lot of support over their handling of this lock out. In 6 years the BCTF will get the funding required from an NDP government.

[Pct2017]

Let's have a look at how all of the various groups involved did at the end of the day:

GOVERMENT - They did OK. First, they did things differently than before. They stood their ground on behalf of the taxpayers of the province. They held the teachers wage increase to an acceptable level which will not trigger problems with the other PSU's. They did not have to pay out the $1200 bonus which was on the table in June. They got all existing grievances extinguished for $108 million, which is less than what they saved in salaries in June. They did give up $480 million over five years to address class composition.

BCTF - they did alright, but only alright. They did get the $480 million for class composition, but $80 million of that is dedicated to CUPE workers. So $400 million over five years at a loaded cost of about $100k per teacher works out to about 600 new members. A small amount of this gain will be lost to the migration of students to private schools during the strike. Their handling of the strike, strike pay and the negotiations should have the membership asking a lot of questions, but that script has yet to be written. They appeared dazed and confused by the government strategy of saying no. They did gain the $108 million, but had to give up all previously lodged grievances. In fairness, this money should go to the teachers, but....

STUDENTS - minimal damage at the end if the day. The last two weeks in June is useless play time, so no impact there. Government exams were written and marked. First week or two in September is generally pretty laid back, so again limited harm. And depending on how pouty the teachers are when they go back, whatever time was lost can be made up with increased class time intensity. And any kid in grade 8 or above will never face another strike by their teachers.

PARENTS - again, minimal damage as the $40/day for younger students offset child care costs.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS - big winners. Enrolment up and not likely to ever reverse this trend.

TEACHERS - this was the group that lost big time. Financially, they lost five and a half weeks salary for absolutely no return, unless you figure the quarter of one percent over six years as a victory. And, quite frankly, they consolidated their reputations as whiny, greedy non- professions for a great many of us. They will increase their ranks by about 600 as stated above, but that works out to about 10 per school district which will do little to create less work for most teachers. Another way of looking at it is one extra teacher for every 830 kids or so. Will they get any of the $108 million is up to their union.

Am very happy that this sorry saga is over, and for our family it means that we will never have a teacher strike that affects us ever again as both kids will be long gone in five years.

In my dissection of winners/losers of the whiny teachers strike, I said the BCTF did alright because they got about $80 million of new money to hire members. Well, I am here to say I was wrong. Dead wrong. I had made the incorrect assumption that this money was all new and would be an increment to the existing Learning Improvement Fund. Now it comes to light that this fund replaces the LIF. So, the LIF was $75 million per year vs the new funding at $80 million per tear. Yup, the BCTF gained $5 million per year or about 50 new members. That is less than one teacher per school district.

So, with that in mind, I have to adjust the score for the BCTF as the biggest losers of all.

[Hal 9000]

I've heard there are a lot of angry teachers. But I'm glad to see them go back for the kids. The BC Liberals have lost a lot of support over their handling of this lock out. In 6 years the BCTF will get the funding required from an NDP government.

But, I thought you said that the Gov't was panicking...was feeling the heat. You said that the kids and families had won thanks to the BCTF. Why the change in your thoughts? Why would the teachers vote in a deal (86%) that they're unhappy with?