CSEC tracking wifi devices at airports and beyond

[Michael Hardner]

Government has always wanted to control the peasants. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Give me a smoking gun, then. If you can produce that then I'm sure the 40% or so of us who still see these surveillances as necessary will change their minds and forgo the perceived security against terrorism.

[Michael Hardner]

I believe what you think is necessary is securing Canadians against terrorist attacks. Everyone can agree on that. It's worth reflecting on our methods, how reliable they are, and how to accomplish our goals with as little intrusion into the freedoms of innocent people.

I agree with that 100%. And I'm also dismayed with the realization that the RCMP and similar agencies will be destroying the lives of innocent naifs who devote their lives to expressions of conscience... it is going to happen.

[bush_cheney2004]

Give me a smoking gun, then. If you can produce that then I'm sure the 40% or so of us who still see these surveillances as necessary will change their minds and forgo the perceived security against terrorism.

45% of polled Canadians would voluntarily sell there personal data for compensation. And far more continue to use applications and data services that obviously are mined by government and commercial interests.

[Michael Hardner]

45% of polled Canadians would voluntarily sell there personal data for compensation.

Sell where ? There ?

And far more continue to use applications and data services that obviously are mined by government and commercial interests.

And yet people continue to use those services. Nobody seems to see TV commercials as an invasion of privacy, but aggregating your data and serving you custom pop-up ads is for some. I prefer the latter setup. I don't think Viagara, or United Way are interested in my personal life beyond what they think they can sell me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sell where ? There ?

Sell anywhere.

And yet people continue to use those services. Nobody seems to see TV commercials as an invasion of privacy, but aggregating your data and serving you custom pop-up ads is for some. I prefer the latter setup. I don't think Viagara, or United Way are interested in my personal life beyond what they think they can sell me.

That's true.....the paranoid and naive gladly join MyFace and participate in the commercial "like me" game. Their actions speak louder than any protests about "privacy".

Edited January 31, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

Check cybercoma's posts for the reasons. It's about control and suppression of any type of dissent.. If you speak out, you are going to be treated like how some view Snowden as a traitor.

Even a little dirt on you will be used against you if you decide to speak out about it.

It's not even that it WILL be used. That's the problem. It's that it CAN be used. It's the fact that they're collecting data on you without your consent and more importantly without you even knowing what they're collecting. It forces you to second-guess everything even if they may not be collecting it at all. The fact that there's evidence that they do without oversight is enough. Edited January 31, 2014 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

That's true.....the paranoid and naive gladly join MyFace and participate is the commercial "like me" game.

And it's all a blessing, especially when compared to hearing that "I feel like chicken tonight song" as we had to do during Gulf War I.

[cybercoma]

With all due respect, there are peasants who think the government is after them and peasants who speak out against the concentration of wealth... let's not malign peasants or be too sure what the powers that be want either, for that matter.

Let's be clear here, the people with financial and political power do not want people upsetting the apple cart. We've seen the erosion of those rights and activities since the 1970s. There was a time when folks were proud to belong to a union. No more. There was a time when people would get together, in public, and protest what they saw as injustices, but now people are afraid to after witnessing how they'll be treated. You stop and compare the police response to G20 versus the police response to the Vancouver riot, an actual riot. If the state can discourage you from protesting before the protest even begins, all the better for those that have the wealth and political clout to get legislation passed in their favour.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's be clear here, the people with financial and political power do not want people upsetting the apple cart.

Generally people in power work in their self-interest the same as all of us, but it's a stretch to imagine that the self-interest of retaining power (which we all have to a degree) would be a stated goal of a surveillance program.

Here's O'Brien's speech to Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives."

There is no such O'Brien in our government today. If it's not a stated goal, then we're just making character assessments of people in power, which doesn't lead us anywhere IMO.

We've seen the erosion of those rights and activities since the 1970s. There was a time when folks were proud to belong to a union. No more. There was a time when people would get together, in public, and protest what they saw as injustices, but now people are afraid to after witnessing how they'll be treated.

But they did indeed protest during G20. And - these are different times, and there are a lot of aspects to the social changes you're talking about, including the fact that many of the things that they were protesting against were defeated, and that the tactic doesn't have the same effect today to name two.

I'm not saying you're wrong either, just that there are so many social changes that have happened since Dr. King, the march on Washington, 1964... It's too easy to blame one thing, and impossible to pin it on the NSA.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I'm not saying you're wrong either, just that there are so many social changes that have happened since Dr. King, the march on Washington, 1964... It's too easy to blame one thing, and impossible to pin it on the NSA.

Besides...Canada = "peace, order, and good government". It is not the USA.

[Michael Hardner]

Besides...Canada = "peace, order, and good government". It is not the USA.

I prefer to see us as being in the back row for a really great show. The view sucks, but you're the first one in the parking lot after the credits roll...

[bush_cheney2004]

I prefer to see us as being in the back row for a really great show. The view sucks, but you're the first one in the parking lot after the credits roll...

Otay, but Canada doesn't have a great tradition of civil unrest and protesting compared to the United States....such comparisons are for dramatic not historic value. A few labour riots, G20, and Vancouver hooliganism doesn't cut it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

Otay, but Canada doesn't have a great tradition of civil unrest and protesting compared to the United States....such comparisons are for dramatic not historic value. A few labour riots, G20, and Vancouver hooliganism doesn't cut it.

Your national pride manifests itself in the most unexpected places.

Yes, I agree with your point.

[Moonlight Graham]

Nobody seems to see TV commercials as an invasion of privacy, but aggregating your data and serving you custom pop-up ads is for some. I prefer the latter setup. I don't think Viagara, or United Way are interested in my personal life beyond what they think they can sell me.

Nobody should ever be allowed to track, give away, or sell your personal data without your expressed consent and where that consent ("yes" or "no") is separate from any other "terms of agreement". We need a massive legal overhaul of our privacy rights in this country. Targeted online ads should be a complete violation of my privacy rights unless I expressly allow them and am allowed to turn them off (along with the info they use to track my preferences).

[Michael Hardner]

Targeted online ads should be a complete violation of my privacy rights unless I expressly allow them and am allowed to turn them off (along with the info they use to track my preferences).

I just don't think people will care about online ads. It's not even clear if the airport surveillance will bother people.

[On Guard for Thee]

Otay, but Canada doesn't have a great tradition of civil unrest and protesting compared to the United States....such comparisons are for dramatic not historic value. A few labour riots, G20, and Vancouver hooliganism doesn't cut it.

Asou already pointed out Canada + peace, order, and "good governance" if I may correct you, does cut it.

[On Guard for Thee]

If you're not doing anything wrong what IS the issue?

Hey, CSEC, feel free to track my movements.

Surely you said that worn out old saw about "if yo're not doing anything wrong......" with tongue in cheek?

[Moonlight Graham]

I just don't think people will care about online ads. It's not even clear if the airport surveillance will bother people.

Both will probably bother people to a certain degree, but not enough for most people to do anything about it. Canadians are a docile and agreeable bunch. Just from interacting with people I know. I think I also care about government and companies invading my privacy more than the average person.

[On Guard for Thee]

My guess is that CSEC will be found to have exceeded their mandate, and therefore broken the law and will find themselves being placed under either parliamentary oversight, or judicial oversight, like any other police force. About time.

[Guest Derek L]

My guess is that CSEC will be found to have exceeded their mandate, and therefore broken the law and will find themselves being placed under either parliamentary oversight, or judicial oversight, like any other police force. About time.

CSEC is not a "police force".........And already has Parliamentary oversight under it's current guise:

DND's oversight is the MND and the NDDN........

[On Guard for Thee]

CSEC is not a "police force".........And already has Parliamentary oversight under it's current guise:

DND's oversight is the MND and the NDDN........

CSEC is overseen by a (1) supernumary judge who reports to one minister. What we need is bill C551. Parliamentary committee.

[Guest Derek L]

CSEC is overseen by a (1) supernumary judge who reports to one minister.

And that Minister would be?

[GostHacked]

I just don't think people will care about online ads. It's not even clear if the airport surveillance will bother people.

That goes back to not quite understanding the technology an how it is being used.

[Michael Hardner]

That goes back to not quite understanding the technology an how it is being used.

Right, and it's not reasonable to expect "the" public to understand it. A collection of trusted advocates could represent the public with regards to the technology.

[GostHacked]

Right, and it's not reasonable to expect "the" public to understand it. A collection of trusted advocates could represent the public with regards to the technology.

These are the same 'trusted' people that are using this 'surveillance grid' against the average citizen under the guise of preventing terrorism. Entities like Google and Microsoft and Apple are in on it. So be careful of who you trust.

Even for an IT guy like me, it is all quite overwhelming, so I can see how most would be confused about the tech, but ignorance is no longer an option. Look how fast this security thing came into being? in the last decade, the Internet and related technologies have exploded (smartphones, smartmeters, wifi appliances, cars connected to the internet, use of CCTV cameras everywhere, voice and facial recognition ect ect ect)

Now what kind of data are those smartmeters siphoning off? You know those things are in place for these new 'smart appliances' Article recently about a fridge being infected with a virus that was sending out spam emails. But there is no real demand for smart appliances (other than a tv maybe) and no need to have them connected to the internet information grid. Do I need to install a firewall and antivirus on my new smartfridge?? If you can get a fridge to spam email, you can also get it to do other things.

The information will overload you. That alone should give you an uncomfortable feeling. It is why most don't want to look into it. It is depressing as f* once you understand the scope.