What improvements would you like to see in this discussion forum?

[GostHacked]

What about trying to get a troll banned not because you care much about their views but because the troll keeps waylaying conversation to make it as hostile as possible?

This is the major point that needs sticking. However the moderation seems to view the reporting of said incidents as 'whining'. And directly calling other posters 'whiners' would be a personal attack, and against the rules. Not a very mature or consistent stance to take if you want to engage the posters here in how to make it better. Clearly there is one thing that can be done to improve the quality of the boards, as many have expresses the same thing as I have.

If one poster has a problem with only one poster, then there is no issue. If many posters have problem with the same single poster, then there is an issue. Notice how that poster loves to flaunt the rules against others now that he has been called out on it. Trolling is against forum rules. If it is not, then change the rules and prepare for a barrage of troll posts.

I've had no less than 5 other members message me privately regarding this particular poster. Some who have contacted me are are on opposite sides of certain topics. So even some posters can push their views aside to come together on one topic that the board moderation is failing to address. But I am sure they are just a bunch of whiners. . .

[bush_cheney2004]

......Let me give an example, citing no one in particular. Say posters are discussing the state of the military, and its various assets and would-be purchases. Another poster, say one from another country, posts about how pathetic the Canadian military is and boasts about his country's military, and then goes on to say how many immigrants his country ges, and how many Canadians want to go and live there, and how many go there to get health care treatment, etc. etc. There's no question this is deliberate trolling that's designed to cause other posters to cast insults at both him and his country.

Not necessarily....and certainly not when the starting points in such discussions are purposeful "insults" and off-topic references to another country to crudely define a Canadian context and identity. Logically, this would also have to be considered "trolling" and is practiced on a regular basis here by several members. Expectations of private conversations about other nations and other nationals by and for only Canadians is not practical on an internet forum that, by definition, invites contributions from many points of view from around the world.

The short version of this response has always been that those who dish it out must be prepared to accept the same in return without whining about it. Pointing out the gross inconsistencies and neurotic manifestations about other nations and nationals is not trolling.

Edited April 12, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Not necessarily....and certainly not when the starting points in such discussions are purposeful "insults" and off-topic references to another country to crudely define a Canadian context and identity.

get stuffed, Captain America!

Pointing out the gross inconsistencies and neurotic manifestations about other nations and nationals is not trolling.

ya, ya... you've described your past mission crusade many times over! Notwithstanding you've self-described your own stated "pointing out" as trolling, and accepting to the fact the current board moderator openly stated he chooses not to directly enforce the MLW Trolling Rule, given the rule exists, if you now desire to self-identify/label your modus-operandi differently, please do so. If not trolling, what are you calling it now?

[bush_cheney2004]

get stuffed, Captain America!

It seems you have picked up where you left off before that long vacation.

ya, ya... you've described your past mission crusade many times over! Notwithstanding you've self-described your own stated "pointing out" as trolling, and accepting to the fact the current board moderator openly stated he chooses not to directly enforce the MLW Trolling Rule, given the rule exists, if you now desire to self-identify/label your modus-operandi differently, please do so. If not trolling, what are you calling it now?

Does it really matter ? I am delighted that this process has played out the way it has, with calm and clear perspectives seeing it for what it is. Other members have joined in stopping the attempted "witch troll burnings", and the board actually got better while the constant complainers retired to lick their wounds. Confirmation of repeated and coordinated attempts to unfairly ban other members is just icing on the cake.

Stick to the topic with spirited debate and all will be well. No need to try to censor or ban others as "trolls" just because one disagrees with them.

[waldo]

It seems you have picked up where you left off before that long vacation.

don't flatter yourself... most of it was being away by choice. Should I replay the sequence that got me the timeout? The exact wording you used? Perhaps you should describe exactly why you used that wording... and the like purposeful wording you've used across dozens of posts, dozens of threads... posts where you've offered nothing more than an unrelated drive-by intended to do nothing more than disrupt, with your like purposeful wording. Of course, I (also purposely) replied as I did, if for no other reason than to showcase the charade MLW board moderation has become.

Does it really matter ? I am delighted that this process has played out the way it has, with calm and clear perspectives seeing it for what it is. Other members have joined in stopping the attempted "witch troll burnings", and the board actually got better while the constant complainers retired to lick their wounds. Confirmation of repeated and coordinated attempts to unfairly ban other members is just icing on the cake.

Stick to the topic with spirited debate and all will be well. No need to try to censor or ban others as "trolls" just because one disagrees with them.

you have your new whiners/complainers talking point well in hand! No one wants you banned... far from it. If you acted properly, you're great comic relief. But of course you're delighted; your BFF certainly has your back!

[bush_cheney2004]

don't flatter yourself... most of it was being away by choice. Should I replay the sequence that got me the timeout?

No, because your vitriol has now grown to include this very forum and its moderator(s). Please learn from the experience instead of striking out at others.

you have your new whiners/complainers talking point well in hand! No one wants you banned... far from it. If you acted properly, you're great comic relief. But of course you're delighted; your BFF certainly has your back!

It's not about me, but rather the process. You can't censor people by just labeling them "trolls" whenever one pleases. Get back in the game...play fair...follow forum rules. All will be well.

[waldo]

No, because your vitriol has now grown to include this very forum and its moderator(s). Please learn from the experience instead of striking out at others.

ah yes, along comes your victim play! But yes, of course, you want nothing to do with a replay of that posting sequence... a replay I could add to with dozens of posts where you've purposely used the same/like wording; done purposely on your part to simply evoke reaction/response... to your choice/purposeful wording.

It's not about me, but rather the process. You can't censor people by just labeling them "trolls" whenever one pleases. Get back in the game...play fair...follow forum rules. All will be well.

no - again, there is no intent to censor you... give it a rest! It's the absolute height of your hypocrisy for you to be calling for "fair play". If you want to speak of rules and abiding to them, why do you continue to flaunt your abuse of the MLW rule against Trolling? Oh, that's right... in combination with the nature of absentee landord moderation, this moderator (when present) has openly/proudly proclaimed a bias position that effectively negates direct enforcment of the MLW rule against trolling. The game you speak of is fixed. It's the reason a multitude of past and significant contributing members have left... it's the reason this board flounders. It's the reason why 50+% of a day's posts can be tracked to, quite literally, a scant half-dozen members... with you, invariably, leeding the posting "rush"!

[bush_cheney2004]

ah yes, along comes your victim play! But yes, of course, you want nothing to do with a replay of that posting sequence... a replay I could add to with dozens of posts where you've purposely used the same/like wording; done purposely on your part to simply evoke reaction/response... to your choice/purposeful wording.

Not really sure what you mean here...the forum's archives are available for all to search and see. They are not hidden from view. The mods and others have already (and correctly) directed that we are responsible for our actions and reactions...not anybody else. This is not pre-school.

no - again, there is no intent to censor you... give it a rest! It's the absolute height of your hypocrisy for you to be calling for "fair play". If you want to speak of rules and abiding to them, why do you continue to flaunt your abuse of the MLW rule against Trolling? Oh, that's right... in combination with the nature of absentee landord moderation, this moderator (when present) has openly/proudly proclaimed a bias position that effectively negates direct enforcment of the MLW rule against trolling. The game you speak of is fixed.

This issue has already been dispositioned by the mods and members yet you persist in striking out. This is totally unnecessary and does not move discussions forward. We have had several good threads with engaged, on topic posts for a change. Those who choose to stay do so voluntarily, regardless of threats from those who want things only their way.

[Bob Macadoo]

Time to add this topic to the ME forum.....

[waldo]

The mods and others have already (and correctly) directed that we are responsible for our actions and reactions...not anybody else. This is not pre-school.

mods??? There is a single MLW board mod. One mod. One mod who chooses to exercise a self-expressed bias in choosing not to directly enforce the existing MLW rule against trolling. One mod who puts the onus on MLW members to "IGNORE & REPORT"... as in "you report, he ignores"!

and yes, in spite of your smugness and overt glee at being given free-reign to shyte on this board, other members have called you and your act out for exactly what you are/it is. But then again, you have done as much yourself, right? Speaking of, as you say, actions... perhaps you could speak to why someone labeling you a troll, calling your actions trolling, as deemed by this single/sole board moderator, is ruled to be casting an insult in spite of your very own self-described/self-acknowledged trolling presence.

[waldo]

Time to add this topic to the ME forum.....

ME forum?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Speaking of, as you say, actions... perhaps you could speak to why someone labeling you a troll, calling your actions trolling, as deemed by this single/sole board moderator, is ruled to be casting an insult in spite of your very own self-described/self-acknowledged trolling presence.

This has already been explained by the mod(s). Calling other members "trolls" is a violation of forum rules.

[Argus]

Might I suggest Waldo and BC take their back and forths to a separate thread. None of that is contributing to this one, and I doubt anyone else really cares.

[Argus]

Not necessarily....and certainly not when the starting points in such discussions are purposeful "insults" and off-topic references to another country to crudely define a Canadian context and identity.

Sure, if the starting points are insults to other countries then those insults can quite easily be dealt with. Obviously, context is everything. But the context makes it fairly easily discernible whether crowing about ones own country is trolling or not.

[bush_cheney2004]

Might I suggest Waldo and BC take their back and forths to a separate thread. None of that is contributing to this one, and I doubt anyone else really cares.

I agree....the topic is how to improve this forum. Arguing about "trolls" with the moderator(s) and other members does not advance this topic.

Edited April 12, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

I agree....the topic is how to improve this forum. Arguing about "trolls" with the moderator(s) and other members does not advance this topic.

it should go without saying that reducing trolling would be a significant board improvement... perhaps the single most improvement. All your now designated complainers/whiners are highlighting the single-most action that has contributed, that continues to contribute, to lost membership and the absence/infrequent presence of long-standing significant members who have simply given up on the/your trolling actions. It's so telling that you can choose to ignore raised concerns and diminish/belittle/relegate those raising concerns as complainers/whiners... so telling.

[WWWTT]

I have a closer appreciation for how busy Greg is than most members do here in the forum. It is easy for me to be patient with him.

Maybe Greg is in jail? I hear incarceration can suck up a lot of your free time. Anyways, that's his business. I hope he feels better soon! Can't wait to see the new changes.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

no - you are selectively... and inequitably applying your personal goalpost measuring. More pointedly, this board's principal troll has openly acknowledged his want/propensity for trolling. How is identifying with that self-acknowledgement a "personal attack"? You outright coddle this boards principal troll. In your self-expressed and proudly asserted "moderation bias" you choose to not directly enforce the MLW rule against trolling. Rather, you hold to a ridiculous premise that presumes members interpret a rule you refuse to directly enforce. You double-down on that by expecting members to "IGNORE & REPORT" something that presumes on the inappropiate onus you force members to attempt to interpret... i.e., the MLW rule against trolling that you refuse to directly enforce. More pointedly, you in turn ignore and refuse to acknowledge member reports concerning trolling.

accepting to your volunteer presence, it appears you rely entirely on member reports to identify your opportunities to guage trolling. What that nonsensical approach feeds is your inability to understand that members interpret trolling over a lengthy period of time... a repeat pattern that associates with multiple/purposeful trolling... a repeat pattern that typically includes multiple occurences and flavours of refuting/debunking the trolls nonsense. Your approach to evaluate trolling on a single reported post is a useless measure that only fuels member frustration... particularly when you in turn suspend members for reacting to the trolling/troll you refuse to deal with.

even if you discount this board's principle troll's self-acknowledgement to a want/propensity for trolling, your statement has no relation to calling out this board's principle troll. The actions of this board's principle troll do not lend themselves to either "open learning" or "open debate". Quite obviously, trolls have no desire for either!

You know what Waldo, at one time I agreed with you.

But at some point of time I realized that this is not my site, nor am I a moderator. I'm just a participant with a general understanding of the rules to work within.

Try to understand that CA has experience in moderating this site and he is using his experience to better it. I don't have his experience so I have to trust his at some point of time.

I still disagree that MH is a regular contributor here, this gives him an unfair advantage in debating, nor can you put him on ignore as any other poster, BIASED!

That's all bro, nothing personal.

WWWTT

[Bob Macadoo]

ME forum?

Sorry... Middle East topics....avoided due to the banter of two trolls as it were therein. You've successfully goaded your nemesis....have fun.

[WWWTT]

Might I suggest Waldo and BC take their back and forths to a separate thread. None of that is contributing to this one, and I doubt anyone else really cares.

They are discussing an issue relevant to this thread I believe.

WWWTT

[jbg]

I have, but by way of the "Report" function. And I don't make a public note of it.

I stand corrected.

Thank you. On the other hand you could safely consider me a leftist I suppose.

[Argus]

They are discussing an issue relevant to this thread I believe.

WWWTT

No, they're just spitting and scratching at each other.

[GostHacked]

Waldo, he is trolling you, even in this thread. That is what he does best.

[waldo]

No, they're just spitting and scratching at each other.

nice! I let your first shot go; not this one... from our private conversations you acknowledge the troll/trolling, suggest Greg is well aware of it/the troll's actions, but is simply not inclined to crack down on it. I disagree... or want to hear that (or a flavour of it) directly from Greg as pertains to his long promised intent to create his own separate thread on moderation.

you stated you didn't think anything could be gained by raising further concerns about trolling to MLW board moderation/admin; accordingly, as you stated, you chose to start you own separate thread on moderation, one intended to "go after something that might get some traction, which is reducing the number of bloody suspensions and redefining what gets you punished in the first place." I don't agree with your want to isolate trolling from the/your concern mix and question your intent to belittle the raised trolling concerns of the now designated/relegated "complainers/whiners".

Edited April 13, 2014 by waldo

[bush_cheney2004]

Interesting....and far from an improvement for this forum, new and existing members can be further discomforted in the knowledge that their posts and membership are topics of private back channel communications that would seek moderator actions against them. No wonder some members are leaving.