Will Ontario's New Waste Reduction Act Cost Jobs

[scribblet]

There was discussion some time ago about the Heinz plant closing and why. It appears that the Ontario Liberal gov't waste reduction legislation could be part of the reason. Sounds like more reasons for manufacturing and jobs to leave Ontario, a real job killer. This isn't to say the costs won't be downloaded to the consumer eventually which could end up being more than the eco fees at the consumer end.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/12/06/who-really-killed-heinz/

Was Ontario’s blue box recycling program the final blow that killed Leamington’s Heinz factory and its 740 jobs? It was at least a factor in the company’s decision.

Not the blue box program as it is now, but the money-sucking monster it’s poised to become. Few people realize it yet, but the Wynne government is on the verge of passing a bill that would double the reach of recycling laws in this province and add hundreds of millions of dollars to the cost of most household goods.

It’s called Bill 91, the Waste Reduction Act. This week PC environment critic Michael Harris denounced it again as “a massive new regulatory scheme” that will impose “massive new costs” on food producers, manufacturers, and consumers.

Just as Ontario’s Green Energy Act killed four jobs for every job it created (according to former Ontario auditor general Jim McCarter), Harris predicts that Bill 91 will likely cost Ontario many more of its 83,000 food and household goods manufacturing jobs than just the 740 now gone in Leamington.

How important is this industry? It’s actually the biggest manufacturing employer in the country, larger even than automotive. The 90 members of the Food and Consumer Products of Canada association employ 300,000 people in 175 factories. Well, 299,260 people and falling after Heinz closes next spring.

As I wrote about Bill 91 back in August, “It will probably cost thousands more Ontarians their jobs in the private sector when its full effects finish cascading through the economy.” But I didn’t think it would start so soon.

http://www.osler.com/NewsResources/Ontario-Introduces-Waste-Reduction-Strategy-and-Proposed-Waste-Reduction-Act-2013/

Edited December 10, 2013 by scribblet

[Michael Hardner]

I think that article does a good job of raising the concerns of one of the interest groups involved but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. This is my frustration with reading editorials: you're left with the impression that the other side is just incompetent but there is likely an answer to the questions raised.

[Mighty AC]

Companies don't make major production decisions on the speculation of eventual legislation. Manufacturing jobs have left and will continue to be exported because of free trade legislation. Tariff free trade with nations that have zero safety standards, environmental regulations, worker rights and minuscule wages will slowly but surely decimate the entire secondary industry sector.

Initially Canada benefited from a free trade agreement with the US. Our weak dollar and taxpayer subsidized healthcare made it slightly beneficial for US companies to produce here. However, at least our two nations have very similar living standards, wages, safety regulations and environmental guidelines. Companies weren't dumping chemicals on the ground and killing workers to produce cars or ketchup.

Now that we have free trade agreements with Mexico, Columbia and various countries around the world there is very little reason for manufacturers to stay put. The US is seeing a minor uptick in manufacturing jobs right now as their low dollar has erased the slight Canadian savings and companies absorb the production into existing US plants. However, US production will continue to be eroded by the regulation free third world.

It's truly a shame that trade laws in developed nations make people consider waste reduction, safety standards, environmental protection, fair wages and benefits to be a problem. Each item is a good thing and the right thing to do, but they cost money. Since it's essentially free for large manufacturers to move operations to regulation free environments we are stuck in a race to the bottom.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Shady]

It's definitely going to cost jobs. It's our provincial governments continued war on jobs and job creation.

[Topaz]

London, on. just got the news that Kellogg is leaving the city for Belleville On to update their company there. At least, they are staying in Canada. http://www.lfpress.com/2013/12/10/hundreds-losing-jobs-as-kelloggs-closing-london-plant

Edited December 10, 2013 by Topaz

[Boges]

London, on. just got the news that Kellogg is leaving the city for Belleville On to update their company there. At least, they are staying in Canada. http://www.lfpress.com/2013/12/10/hundreds-losing-jobs-as-kelloggs-closing-london-plant

I've heard that's just cuz people don't eat as much cereal anymore. DAMN YOU GLUTEN-FREE CRAZE!!!!!

[Michael Hardner]

Initially Canada benefited from a free trade agreement with the US. Our weak dollar and taxpayer subsidized healthcare made it slightly beneficial for US companies to produce here.

Interesting to note, however, that we heard the same arguments against trade at that time and place that we do today.

And we hear arguments against trade with Europe that fall into the same type of conveyance: ie. all trade is bad.

[Bonam]

Interesting to note, however, that we heard the same arguments against trade at that time and place that we do today.

And we hear arguments against trade with Europe that fall into the same type of conveyance: ie. all trade is bad.

Just because some arguments are bad, doesn't mean that all slightly related arguments are by extension also bad.

[Mighty AC]

Interesting to note, however, that we heard the same arguments against trade at that time and place that we do today.

And we hear arguments against trade with Europe that fall into the same type of conveyance: ie. all trade is bad.

Of course not all trade is bad. However, if trade laws prevent nations from making positive moves like reducing waste, paying fair wages, providing benefits, protecting the environment and ensuring safe working conditions then the laws are problematic.

[waldo]

I think that article does a good job of raising the concerns of one of the interest groups involved but it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. This is my frustration with reading editorials: you're left with the impression that the other side is just incompetent but there is likely an answer to the questions raised.

an answer... or more questions? Seems Heinz was quite concerned about the expressed intention of Harper Conservatives to deregulate food packaging!

One of the country's biggest food processors opposes deregulating the size of food packaging.

In a statement emailed to CBC News, Heinz Canada spoke out against the proposed changes that are part of the Conservative omnibus bill.

The company said the changes took food processors by surprise.

"The regulatory changes on page 219 in the Federal Government Budget 2012 came as a surprise to many stakeholders, including municipal, provincial and federal representatives, as well as consumers, producers and processors," wrote Andrea Acic. "Of particular concern is the Canadian Food Inspection Agency’s intention to deregulate container sizes for many packaged foods sold in Canada. This change does not help consumers and has implications for producers, processors and communities.

The mayors of Tecumseh, Leamington and Kingsville fear that if the federal government repeals the law that regulates the sizes of packaged foods sold in Canada it will cost the region jobs.

Heinz, Bonduelle and Sunbrite all have operations in southern Ontario.

The change could put businesses that process food in Canada at a competitive disadvantage unless they adopt American sizes and formats, food processors claim.

given the timing of Harper Conservatives announcement to take "food packaging deregulation off the table", just a few days ago, it seems Harper Conservatives recognize their expressed intention had/has consequences! Apparently too late for Heinz, hey Harper Conservatives!

[Shady]

an answer... or more questions? Seems Heinz was quite concerned about the expressed intention of Harper Conservatives to deregulate food packaging!

given the timing of Harper Conservatives announcement to take "food packaging deregulation off the table", just a few days ago, it seems Harper Conservatives recognize their expressed intention had/has consequences! Apparently too late for Heinz, hey Harper Conservatives!

Of course they were concerned. They'd have more competition, and that's the last thing they want.

[Michael Hardner]

Just because some arguments are bad, doesn't mean that all slightly related arguments are by extension also bad.

The arguments are bad because there's no way to qualify the claims as either fact-based or value-based. They're put forward as 'concerns'... much like the editorial in the OP.

[Michael Hardner]

Of course not all trade is bad. However, if trade laws prevent nations from making positive moves like reducing waste, paying fair wages, providing benefits, protecting the environment and ensuring safe working conditions then the laws are problematic.

The trade laws don't seem to be preventing us from making such moves so far, and they seem to be dragging other parts of the world into the discussion if not into to the same competitive space on those terms.

[Michael Hardner]

an answer... or more questions? ... Apparently too late for Heinz, hey Harper Conservatives![/b]

Really, another example as with the OP. I read that and I only have questions.

From the article there was no advantage to passing this law, a major company was against it and there were jobs lost. What an idiot Harper must be to pass such a law with absolutely no advantages to anyone ! Woe unto us !

[waldo]

Of course they were concerned. They'd have more competition, and that's the last thing they want.

no Shady... the manufacturer's concern was that they'd have to retool their assembly lines to align with the intended food packaging deregulation put forward by Harper Conservatives... very, very costly undertaking. You should read the linked articles once in a while!

[waldo]

Really, another example as with the OP. I read that and I only have questions.

From the article there was no advantage to passing this law, a major company was against it and there were jobs lost. What an idiot Harper must be to pass such a law with absolutely no advantages to anyone ! Woe unto us !

my related question: if, as you imply, there were might have been advantages to the proposed deregulation... why didn't Harper Conservatives hold fast and stick with their earlier expressed intention. Why did they fold... on those (presumed) advantages... and in just the past week, formally advise they will "pull the intended deregulation off the table"? Surely, Harper Conservatives aren't guided by optics and media coverage! Surely, on principal, Harper Conservatives would have pressed forward on deregulation... given (presumed) advantages. Advantages???

Edited December 10, 2013 by waldo

[Michael Hardner]

Well, indeed, there are more questions to be answered.

No need for us, the public, to understand though. We're just children, really, and shouldn't be worried about details.

[Argus]

Interesting to note, however, that we heard the same arguments against trade at that time and place that we do today.

And we hear arguments against trade with Europe that fall into the same type of conveyance: ie. all trade is bad.

All trade isn't bad. However, I think it's worth noting the spread of so-called 'right to work' states, and state governments which basically will do everything in their power to increase the profits of corporations at the expense of their workers. Those states become very attractive places for corporations to relocate as compared to Canada. No unions there, little in the way of safety or environmental regulations, no need to pay benefits, low minimum wage.

Add in cheaper energy and why would a company want to locate in Ontario?

All of this is post-free trade agreement.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

There was an item on the news tonight about families in the valley struggling to pay their enormous hydro bills. One had given up on Christmas, no presents, in an effort to pay down their bill. And what comes to my mind is an image of Dalton McGuinty, sitting in his brightly lit, million dollar home by the crackling fireplace, exchanging laughter with his well-off relatives without a thought of guilt in his mind that he was responsible for their misery. He and his ideologue friends increased hydro rates by 300% over the past ten years of Liberal mismanagement, and will go up by at least another 40% over the next five years. All this in desperate pursuit of a green energy agenda that never made sense except to cement their reputation among the granola cruncher set.

[Jimmy Wilson]

All trade isn't bad. However, I think it's worth noting the spread of so-called 'right to work' states, and state governments which basically will do everything in their power to increase the profits of corporations at the expense of their workers. Those states become very attractive places for corporations to relocate as compared to Canada. No unions there, little in the way of safety or environmental regulations, no need to pay benefits, low minimum wage.

Add in cheaper energy and why would a company want to locate in Ontario?

All of this is post-free trade agreement.

Never fear..Tim Hudak is here to emulate those poverty inducing/standard of living stomping labour policies...

[Shady]

Never fear..Tim Hudak is here to emulate those poverty inducing/standard of living stomping labour policies...

Oh I know. Unions are so great that you can't give people a choice, you have to for e them. Sounds swell!!! Lol. Ask the folks that used to have jobs at caterpillar in london how the union worked out for them.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Shady

[Jimmy Wilson]

Oh I know. Unions are so great that you can't give people a choice, you have to for e them. Sounds swell!!! Lol. Ask the folks that used to have jobs at caterpillar in london how the union worked out for them.

1.Could you please elucidate for everyone what groups are behind the "Right to Work" campaigns in the US and Canada?

2.The " freedom of choice" issue is interesting...Could you please tell us all what the legal framework we work under in Ontario (and across this country) as it relates to compulsory union membership?

By the way,it should be noted that Caterpillar is a known anti-union/union busting corporation...The "final offer" they gave to the employees that were LOCKED OUT was the same wage and benny package they "generously offered" to the folks in Indiana...An RTW state...

'Cause it's all about the "sanctity and freedom of the individual worker"...

Edited December 21, 2013 by Jimmy Wilson

[socialist]

1.Could you please elucidate for everyone what groups are behind the "Right to Work" campaigns in the US and Canada?

2.The " freedom of choice" issue is interesting...Could you please tell us all what the legal framework we work under in Ontario (and across this country) as it relates to compulsory union membership?

By the way,it should be noted that Caterpillar is a known anti-union/union busting corporation...The "final offer" they gave to the employees that were LOCKED OUT was the same wage and benny package they "generously offered" to the folks in Indiana...An RTW state...

'Cause it's all about the "sanctity and freedom of the individual worker"...

The people who run my teachers union are very well paid and rightfully. If you get Saturdays and Sundays off......THANK A UNION. Enjoy your human rights? THANK A UNION!!

[Shady]

The people who run my teachers union are very well paid and rightfully. If you get Saturdays and Sundays off......THANK A UNION. Enjoy your human rights? THANK A UNION!!

No, human rights aren't granted to us by unions. Work in a public union and get well paid? Thank the private sector that pays your salary. Youre welcome!

[socialist]

No, human rights aren't granted to us by unions. Work in a public union and get well paid? Thank the private sector that pays your salary. Youre welcome!

Oh, here we go. The myth of the private sector being the be all to end all. More right wing propaganda.