Politically Incorrect View of Natural Disasters

[jbg]

The inspiration for this thread came from a post on a meteorology forum, speculating that a return of cyclical droughts in the immediate southern fringes of the Sahara Desert, called the Sahel, could have major international ramifications as hordes of people flee for temperate and more advanced lands. I for one don't think the weather is the major problem.

The more advanced modern world has plenty of droughts, floods and hurricanes, and yet we bounce back, without the waves of human misery and suffering. Pakistan's earthquake, Indonesia's tsunami, Haiti's earthquake and New Zealand's truly devastating earthquake occurred in rapid succession. Any guess which ones go the most international aid? And any guess which one probably recovered fast? Do we see waves of immigrants fleeing New Zealand? And how many emigrants from the U.S. as a result of Sandy?

Let's be honest> The Sahel's suffering is not from cyclical drought. It's from local and religious cultures that foster mass reproduction and little work. And what does the West do? Subsidize. Do I enjoy my tax dollars going to feed the libidinous urges of Fourth World 17 year olds? I sure don't.

And if their immigrants want to come to the West, fine. As long as they find work.

[Bob Macadoo]

I see stories every other day with Sandy and before them Katrina victims with their hand out looking for gov't bailout. Too bad those minuscule GDP countries don't subsidize their citizens like we do.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Bob Macadoo

[jbg]

I see stories every other day with Sandy and before them Katrina victims with their hand out looking for gov't bailout. Too bad those minuscule GDP countries don't subsidize their citizens like we do.

Well their leaders' Swiss bank accounts are well-subsidized.

[Bob Macadoo]

Are you saying Chris Christie should open his personal wallet to Snooki and the Situation so they can rebuild their seaside shop?

[jbg]

Are you saying Chris Christie should open his personal wallet to Snooki and the Situation so they can rebuild their seaside shop?

Are you saying Chris Christie is socking money away in Swiss bank accounts? At least he doesn't smoke crack or root for the Leafs.

[eyeball]

Do I enjoy my tax dollars going to feed the libidinous urges of Fourth World 17 year olds? I sure don't.

Do you like the wealth that 12 year old's mine out of the Earth in that region for our corporations? Sure you do.

And if their immigrants want to come to the West, fine. As long as they find work.

Hmmmm....I bet these kids probably put in the sort of hard day's work that would have you crying like a baby for your Mama.

[jbg]

Do I enjoy my tax dollars going to feed the libidinous urges of Fourth World 17 year olds? I sure don't.

Do you like the wealth that 12 year old's mine out of the Earth in that region for our corporations? Sure you do.

I don't quite understand what you're babbling about here. This other board is for "babble."

And if their immigrants want to come to the West, fine. As long as they find work.

Hmmmm....I bet these kids probably put in the sort of hard day's work that would have you crying like a baby for your Mama.

Such as the "carbeques" in France?

[eyeball]

I don't quite understand

I can see that.

[-TSS-]

There was an interesting report on the BBC about the hurricane Mitch which occured 15 years ago. The societies of Honduras and Belize, the ones worst affected by the disaster, still haven't fully recovered.

[GostHacked]

I can see that.

Lemme see if I got this right. You are referring to child slave labour in 3rd world countries... right? I get things wrong here time to time ...

[eyeball]

That's right, as a challenge to the implication that the young immigrants jbg is referring to are lazy and don't produce anything of benefit to him. As I said they could probably work circles around most of us.

Edited November 2, 2013 by eyeball

[jacee]

I don't quite understand what you're babbling about here.

That's apparent.

You seem to have no awareness of the environmental and human degradation caused by western industries as they exploit natural and human resources in 'developing' countries.

Developing_Countries_Should_Get_Paid_for_Environmental_Damage

creating-a-sweatfree-world/ethical-consumerism/news

[eyeball]

It seems it also never crosses some people's minds why that environmental and human degradation might cause people to want to immigrate away from it.

Impugning these refugees work ethic in the context of mentioning our 'hard' earned tax dollars is just plain mean in light of how much unrewarded wealth many very young Africans have already contributed to the West's well being. They've probably already long since worked circles around the loudest complainers before they even immigrated.

[bud]

i teach my children empathy and sympathy, not the opposite.

[-TSS-]

There was news the other day how dozens of people died of thirst in the desert in their attempt to reach North-Africa and from there on further to Europe. Some of the survivors made it to Algeria. The next thing which happened was that Algeria turned all those people back to Niger.

What I am asking where is all the international outrage and condemnation at the actions of the Algerian authorities? Perhaps those Algerian authorities saved dozens of lives by stopping the intruders to sail by their unseaworthy boats across the Mediterranean.

[jacee]

There was news the other day how dozens of people died of thirst in the desert in their attempt to reach North-Africa and from there on further to Europe. Some of the survivors made it to Algeria. The next thing which happened was that Algeria turned all those people back to Niger.

What I am asking where is all the international outrage and condemnation at the actions of the Algerian authorities? Perhaps those Algerian authorities saved dozens of lives by stopping the intruders to sail by their unseaworthy boats across the Mediterranean.

Where's the outrage at SHELL OIL that made refugees of thousands and thousands of Nigerians via oil spills?

From above link:

The Niger delta is the site of yet another environmental catastrophe of gigantic proportions, thanks to leaky oil wells at the site of old drilling holes. Neither in Ecuador nor in Nigeria did the damaged parties succeed in obtaining court-settled compensation payments. This was due to the firms' reluctance to admit to any wrongdoing and be forthcoming about payments, as well as to the ineffectiveness and corruption of the regimes on the spot.

And this:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/sep/13/niger-delta-oil-shell-compensation

It's everywhere. The wind blows the oil on our vegetable crops, our food tastes of oil, our children are sick and we get skin rashes. Life here has stopped," said Barilido, a fisherman reduced to collecting wood.

.

Edited November 2, 2013 by jacee

[-TSS-]

I apologize in advance if I have got you wrong but your post seems to imply that you don't know the difference between Niger and Nigeria.

[jacee]

I apologize in advance if I have got you wrong but your post seems to imply that you don't know the difference between Niger and Nigeria.

No you're right.

Niger is next to Nigeria.

The refugees were fleeing drought apparently, not oil spills, so my connection is wrong.

The impact of corporate degradation of the physical and human environment stands.

.

Edited November 2, 2013 by jacee

[Moonlight Graham]

Let's be honest> The Sahel's suffering is not from cyclical drought. It's from local and religious cultures that foster mass reproduction and little work.

Are you kidding me? Little work? Do you think most of the African continent is very poor largely as a result of laziness???

The difference between a natural disaster in economically advanced countries vs poorer ones is that economically advanced societies have far better preparation and response to dangerous natural events like earthquakes/hurricanes/droughts because of money, education, infrastructure, and other resources that naturally comes from being a rich country.

Virtually any economically poor society that depends greatly on subsistence farming for survival and does so while living along the fringes of the largest desert on earth that supports significant human life (the arctic and Antarctica are larger deserts of course) is going to suffer disaster during a strong drought in the region. High reproduction rates will of course magnify the problem, but is not in itself the problem. By definition, an extreme natural event (ie: drought) + vulnerability = a natural disaster.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[jbg]

That's right, as a challenge to the implication that the young immigrants jbg is referring to are lazy and don't produce anything of benefit to him. As I said they could probably work circles around most of us.

The immigrants to the U.S. are fine. Not so much the immigrants TO Europe.

[jbg]

That's apparent.

You seem to have no awareness of the environmental and human degradation caused by western industries as they exploit natural and human resources in 'developing' countries.

Developing_Countries_Should_Get_Paid_for_Environmental_Damage

creating-a-sweatfree-world/ethical-consumerism/news

I'd have fewer problems with this "payment" idea if the money benefited the people. Not the kleptocratic rulers.

[jbg]

Where's the outrage at SHELL OIL that made refugees of thousands and thousands of Nigerians via oil spills?

If it weren't for Shell and BP how much of an economy would Nigeria have?

[Bonam]

Are you kidding me? Little work? Do you think most of the African continent is very poor largely as a result of laziness???

Have you traveled to many African countries? In the few I've been in, it was very typical to see women toiling away, while men lounge about. That seemed to be the normal and accepted way of things in those cultures (our guide explained that the role of men is in warfare, so whenever there isn't any war, they don't do anything). What effect this might have on the economies of some African nations I'll leave as a thought experiment to the reader...

[jacee]

I'd have fewer problems with this "payment" idea if the money benefited the people. Not the kleptocratic rulers.

I'm not sure what payment you mean. However it's true that money paid to corrupt governments re resources seldom helps people displaced by resource developments. Multinational corps tend not to care where the money goes so long as they can access the resources. Some of the money pays for government troops and police to force people off their land so the corps can access resources. Edited November 3, 2013 by jacee

[jbg]

I'm not sure what payment you mean. However it's true that money paid to corrupt governments re resources seldom helps people displaced by resource developments. Multinational corps tend not to care where the money goes so long as they can access the resources. Some of the money pays for government troops and police to force people off their land so the corps can access resources.

I forgot about resource payments and you're right. I was referring to NGO aid but you have a point.