How much are we too weep for Greyson and Loubani?

[bleeding heart]

As for their political beliefs and the idiocy of going to make a film critical of Israel while walking right past far worse atrocities in Egypt... hopefully this episode will be a wakeup call to them, but that is unlikely, anti-Israel fanatics are anti-Israel fanatics.

I hear this a lot ("What about the Sudan?" is arguably the most common refrain), but I don't think much of it, honestly.

Using your logic, why in the world would they concern themselves with atrocities in Egypt...when there are the monumentally worse horrors that have been long unfolding in the Congo?

Or why not Haiti, for that matter, a poverty- and violence-stricken country so extreme that it simply cannot support the thriving tourist industry of, oh, say....Egypt?

[Boges]

I hear this a lot ("What about the Sudan?" is arguably the most common refrain), but I don't think much of it, honestly.Using your logic, why in the world would they concern themselves with atrocities in Egypt...when there are the monumentally worse horrors that have been long unfolding in the Congo?Or why not Haiti, for that matter, a poverty- and violence-stricken country so extreme that it simply cannot support the thriving tourist industry of, oh, say....Egypt?

From what I hear, all this turmoil has really hurt Egypt's tourist industry.

People likely don't want to see Pyramids bad enough if they risk being jailed a few months without charges.

[jacee]

As for their political beliefs and the idiocy of going to make a film critical of Israel while walking right past far worse atrocities in Egypt... hopefully this episode will be a wakeup call to them, but that is unlikely, anti-Israel fanatics are anti-Israel fanatics.

While they clearly are supporters of the people of Gaza, their purpose doesn't seem so sinister:

Loubani travelled to Egypt to train emergency doctors in Gaza, and Greyson was there to observe and document that work.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/toronto/story/1.1928081

[Rue]

While they clearly are supporters of the people of Gaza, their purpose doesn't seem so sinister:

Loubani travelled to Egypt to train emergency doctors in Gaza, and Greyson was there to observe and document that work.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/toronto/story/1.1928081

" They are supporters of the "people of Gaza,"

I contend from their past comments that they openly support Hamas. That does not mean they support the people of Gaza, it means they support Hamas.

"Greyson was there to observe and document that work".

Some of us would content that Greyson went to Egypt to engage in a political film supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.

Loubani is an emergency physician and believes he is on the mission to save the persecuted. Because he actually treats people with wounds, I hold my criticism on that. Medical practice by nature is an act of humanity so I will not criticize his right to treat people just his naivite and I would contend being used by a boyfriend as a pawn for a propaganda movie.

You want it in blunt terms?

I believe Greyson is a soft, pampered, sheltered, wealthy, elitist, left wing professor from York with a cushy job who lives in a privileged elitist world and was brought up to love himself andwas never told no as a child.

So I would contend he now he feels he is entitled to travel the world with this swollen pampered me me me I am so wonderful ego and narcissistic complex thinking he can prance about with a camera and lecture people on how to behave.

He is openly homosexual and went to a country to embrace the Muslim Brotherhood an organization that openly refers to gays in as hateful a manner as possible.

For me the life situations he places himself in manifest his own sexual identity conflicts with the Arab men he feels attracted to.

Oh let's be even more blunt. He is in love with a swarthy unobtainable dark Muslim man. Some of us call it Laurence of Arabia syndrome.

You want to pussy foot around what he was doing there? I won't. He was following a boyfriend and bare witness and homage to him.

He wanted to make some naïve, ridiculous film about swarthy dark brave men.

He lives in a world where his sexual fantasies are restated through political left wing ideology where he hero worships terrorists because they are a sexual fantasy man he craves.

Why beat around the bush. I am sure he has been told the above by many therapists already and knows it.

Now he can come back to Canada and pose as a martyr and sell a book and some ridiculous film.

As for his boyfriend, he will keep practicing medicine in dangerous places to try attone for his own conflicted ego that can't balance his being Islam and gay at the same time. Its his way of both punishing himself and getting pentance at the same time.

Thanks there are far too many genuine compassionate people out their doing charitable work that need our support.

This self indulgent film professor simply has a new pretense to engage in self love in public.

This pop in jay will soon be back to his cushy job. He gets to play freedom fighter but run away. The people he slummed with will be suffering long after he has moved on to another trendy cause.

The people of Egypt were nothing but a play toy for some affluent little putz to play with.

Next thread: Who Is Red John

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rue

[bleeding heart]

From what I hear, all this turmoil has really hurt Egypt's tourist industry.

People likely don't want to see Pyramids bad enough if they risk being jailed a few months without charges.

I have no doubt at all.

[Rue]

I have no doubt at all.

Tourists never feared being jailed. They feared terrorist extremists attacking their buses. That is what closed down the tourist industry the same Muslim extremists that then rallied round the Muslim Brotherhood. When the Muslim Brotherhood was elected it shut down the tourist industry and this was the last source of income the country had left to obtain international currency and its a primary reason the military removed it.

Tourists were not being arrested. They were being fire bombed.

The real issue in Egypt is food. People need sustenance-bread, water, rice.

The Muslim Brotherhood did nothing absolutely nothing to address the economy other than to shut down tourism.

They then went on a campaign to attack Coptic Christians.

Due process?

This is Egypt. It has been a police state from the beginning of time.

Interesting when the Muslim Brotherhood started arresting people en masse without due process, not a peep from the same people now oh so concerned.

[jacee]

" They are supporters of the "people of Gaza,"

I contend from their past comments that they openly support Hamas. That does not mean they support the people of Gaza, it means they support Hamas.

What past comments?

"Greyson was there to observe and document that work".

Some of us would content that Greyson went to Egypt to engage in a political film supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.

Based on what evidence?

Loubani is an emergency physician and believes he is on the mission to save the persecuted. Because he actually treats people with wounds, I hold my criticism on that. Medical practice by nature is an act of humanity so I will not criticize his right to treat people just his naivite and I would contend being used by a boyfriend as a pawn for a propaganda movie.

You want it in blunt terms?

I believe Greyson is a soft, pampered, sheltered, wealthy, elitist, left wing professor from York with a cushy job who lives in a privileged elitist world and was brought up to love himself andwas never told no as a child.

So I would contend he now he feels he is entitled to travel the world with this swollen pampered me me me I am so wonderful ego and narcissistic complex thinking he can prance about with a camera and lecture people on how to behave.

He is openly homosexual and went to a country to embrace the Muslim Brotherhood an organization that openly refers to gays in as hateful a manner as possible.

For me the life situations he places himself in manifest his own sexual identity conflicts with the Arab men he feels attracted to.

Oh let's be even more blunt. He is in love with a swarthy unobtainable dark Muslim man. Some of us call it Laurence of Arabia syndrome.

You want to pussy foot around what he was doing there? I won't. He was following a boyfriend and bare witness and homage to him.

He wanted to make some naïve, ridiculous film about swarthy dark brave men.

He lives in a world where his sexual fantasies are restated through political left wing ideology where he hero worships terrorists because they are a sexual fantasy man he craves.

Well ... it's quite apparent that 'someone's' fantasies have been aroused by this pair ...

Along with some self-hating gay bashing.

Your response is quite ludicrous ... but revealing nonetheless.

Edited October 7, 2013 by jacee

[Rue]

What past comments?

Based on what evidence?

Well ... it's quite apparent that 'someone's' fantasies have been aroused by this pair ...

Along with some self-hating gay bashing.

Your response is quite ludicrous ... but revealing nonetheless.

Why? You a little nervous? Interesting you read into what I wrote that I hate gays? Why? What have I said that is hateful to gays? What I do show

is contempt for anyone gay or straight who thinks they can use the world as a platform for their sense of entitlement. I could care less who these patoots play the tuba with. What I care about is wasting tax payers money or anyone's time obsessing about a bunch of sheltered naive blood clots playing missionary.

If you can't see the irony in some openly gay man courting the Muslim Brotherhood and you do not think that is self-hating I can only blow you a kiss on that one.

By the way you want to find out what their political agenda was, go find out. I am not here to deliver it to you. Its all over the web.

I also wish to state again, Loubani is a genuine doctor. I do not question he was going to go to Gaza to provide physician assistance. It is what he does. He is a refugee himself. He no doubt does what he does because of genuine committment. I do not put him in the same league as Greyson.

Loubani is living a conflicted life and feels he owes others for his own failures. I do not ridicule that. He has to come to peace with himself before he dies. He is a good person. I just do not mince words with his naivite.

If I have genuine contempt it is for Greyson. His arrogance and elitism I detest. His documentaries are childish. He is a vane, self-centered narcissist so typical of trendy leftist cocktail drinking putzes.

No I will not be going to any benefits for him. He can kiss my buttox. I much prefer the approach of the Unitarian Service Committee.

True charitable people do not bring attention to themselves or manipulate the good deeds of others for political agenda.

If you do not know his affiliation with Hamas and previous political activities go find out.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rue

[Rue]

What past comments?

Based on what evidence?

Jacee can play the dumb game but I aint biting.

Here is a discussion about Greyson from the gay community.

http://dailyxtra.com/canada/news/gay-filmmaker-john-greyson-remains-in-egyptian-prison?market=210

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rue

[Rue]

"How stupid can a gay guy be? This Greyson guy is gay and he took part in a Muslim Brotherhood demonstration against the Egyptian government? Does he not realize that Islamist's kill homosexuals? Does he not realize that the Egyptian military ousted Morsi because he was going to implement Sharia law in Egypt? Under Sharia law homosexuality is a crime punishable by death. I have no sympathy for him."

The above opinion was expressed on this web site:

http://dailyxtra.com/canada/news/gay-filmmaker-john-greyson-remains-in-egyptian-prison?market=210

I openly support and am active in an alliance between supporters of Israel and the gay community. Neither of us hate Arabs or Palestinians. We both detest two faced morons who support hate monger extremists.

That does not make me anti-gay and I resent that accusation from Jacee but I would expect that comment.

For some the moment you point out they are supporting anti gay extremists, they hide behind the gay card and try call everyone else anti gay.

I call a spade a spade and a two faced self indulgent patsy exactly that. Kaboom and puff on that. Nuff said.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Rue

[scribblet]

Do you believe they actually were there to take part in this demonstration and actually did so? Their story is different of course and the one wholly supported by the media.

[jacee]

"How stupid can a gay guy be? This Greyson guy is gay and he took part in a Muslim Brotherhood protest ... "

There aren't any reports that they "took part".

I openly support and am active in an alliance between supporters of Israel and the gay community. Neither of us hate Arabs or Palestinians. We both detest two faced morons who support hate monger extremists.

Likewise, people can support the plight of the stateless people of Gaza without 'openly supporting Hamas'.

That does not make me anti-gay and I resent that accusation from Jacee but I would expect that comment.

Maybe you should ditch the "prance" and "popinjay" "swarthy Arab men fantasies" type language then. Certainly seemed to me that you were denigrating him via his sexual orientation and a lot of sexual references/preoccupation.

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

You bring a lot of good information and perspective to discussions, Rue, but sometimes it gets lost in hyperbole.

Edited October 7, 2013 by jacee

[Rue]

There aren't any reports that they "took part".

Likewise, people can support the plight of the stateless people of Gaza without 'openly supporting Hamas'.

Maybe you should ditch the "prance" and "popinjay" "swarthy Arab men fantasies" type language then. Certainly seemed to me that you were denigrating him via his sexual orientation and a lot of sexual references/preoccupation.

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

You bring a lot of good information and perspective to discussions, Rue, but sometimes it gets lost in hyperbole.

Jacee I deliberately am being critical of this man not for being gay per se, but being gay and trying to cozy up to anti gay organizations in his selective biases against Israel.

I repeat again Loubani is a genuine physician helping out fellow Palestinian refugees but I also believe he crossed the line and uses his medical practice to engage in support of Hamas.

Loubani was a member of the International Solidarity Movement which is openly pro Hamas.

He claims in 2003 he was arrested in Haza and tortured by the IDF for being an "observer" for the ISM. Problem is others say he was never tortured just questioend and released and turned himself into a martyr inflating the story for political purposes.

As for Greyson he has been openly anti Israel and pro Hamas for years. He is a member of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid and active in York University engaging in anti Israel activities.

In 2010 be boarded the Mavi Marmara the Turkish vessel that was one of a flotilla of ships sent from Turkey to try challenge the bloackade of Gaza.

He boarded another ship and tried again in 2011.

Greyson protested that the Government of Israel was allowed to show a tourist film about Tel Aviv at the Toronto International Film Festival’s film

festival calling it Zionist propaganda.

He's a bully. He is not interested in any opinions other than his own. He was tagging along with Loubani on their way to Gaza where Loubani claims he would work at a hospital and Greyson said he was going to do a film.

They claim they walked into a Cairo police station for directions and were arrested. They were in fact on the street demonstrating with Muslim Brotherhood friends and Greyson was doing some filming of the street protests when they were arrested. Guess it depends on who you ask now doesn't it.

To some he is a left wing do gooder. To people like me he is an intolerant self hating fascist.

John Greyson made a point of making many of his films about being gay and portraying himself as a gay militant.

Then he embraces the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas? How is that consistent?

How do you embrace two of the most anti gay organizations in the world unless you are a self hating fool who seeks salvation from the very homophobes that laugh at him by thinking he has gained their respect by being anti Israel? What a pathetic way to seek affirmation.

Here is info on his films which in my opinion are pathetic, self indulgent trash:

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/john-greyson

You can also get a synopsis of his films on wikepedia.

This is a man fully aware that Israel is the place gays from the Middle East flee to, but he ignores this.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Rue

[jbg]

They're supporters of Hamas, Do they think Hamas treat opponents any better than they've been treated?

I would have thought the absence of due process in their case is enough to weep about. Justice is supposed to be blind not injustice.

I agree that Harper should have called for their release. But they were dancing in the middle of a three-lane highway by their choice of venue.

[eyeball]

That's no excuse.

[jbg]

That's no excuse.

So is what Rachel Corrie did alright?

[eyeball]

That's no deflection.

[jacee]

Jacee I deliberately am being critical of this man not for being gay per se ...

Your use of derogatory descriptive language says otherwise, and destroys the credibility of your arguments. Edited November 2, 2013 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

So is what Rachel Corrie did alright?

I don't know, but she had more courage than Greyson and Loubani combined.

[Rue]

Your use of derogatory descriptive language says otherwise, and destroys the credibility of your arguments.

Your subjective standards as to what language is appropriate does not establish your credibility either, just y our subjective standards as to what you find acceptable as language. Whether you find me politically appropriate in presentation is not the issue.

The double standard of Greyson supporting anti gay terrorists is. That was the issue. You want to start a thread discussing my choice of words you find offensive, start one. We were talking about Greyson denying he was involved filming the demonstrations when he was and in openly supporting both Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood who are openly gay and involving himself in a gay organization that openly marches in Gay Pride parades to protect Israel existing while remaining silent at the oppression of gays on the West Bank and in Gaza.

Try as you might to switch every topic to your outage over my choice of words, its not working and by the way, I meant every last one of them. I have no time for two faced hypocrates with double standards. I spit on their contradictions. Golly now that word spit is

nasty isn't it.