The Truth About Obamacare

[Guest American Woman]

Sometimes we may have to wait a bit, but we don't lose our house and kids paying for it if we do get sick or hurt.

'Lose kids paying paying for medical bills?' How does that work, exactly? - the kids are taken in lieu of payment?

[bush_cheney2004]

'Lose kids paying paying for medical bills?' How does that work, exactly? - the kids are taken in lieu of payment?

Reminds me of an old Henny Youngman joke...."Take my wife - please ! "

[Wilber]

It's also dishonest to say that medical bills are never a factor in Canadians declaring bankruptcy due to an illness. All medical costs aren't covered by healthcare.,

It would be dishonest to say that but you are the only one who is on that tangent. The point is, all Canadians are guaranteed the same basic level of health care regardless of their means.

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 19 Oct 2013 - 4:03 PM, said:

It's also dishonest to say that medical bills are never a factor in Canadians declaring bankruptcy due to an illness.

It would be dishonest to say that but you are the only one who is on that tangent.

Ummm. You said it:

People go bankrupt for all kids of reasons. In Canada, paying for healthcare isn't one of them.

The point is, all Canadians are guaranteed the same basic level of health care regardless of their means.

The point is - Canadians still file bankruptcy due to illness, just as I said - in response to a post insinuating otherwise; and sometimes that includes medical bills. I doubt if Canadians filing for bankruptcy due to an illness are in a better place than Americans filing for bankruptcy due to an illness. Do you think otherwise?

Edited October 19, 2013 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Ummm. You said it:

True I did, and I should have said rarely. There are occasions when people are financially stressed because the public system doesn't cover some of their needs. In this day and age, no public system can ever cover access to every treatment and drug that is available, but it can guaranty that everyone has access to a reasonable level of healthcare. Where I disagree with many other Canadians is that I think there should be more options outside the public system, but the public system should always come first when it comes to making policy.

The point is - Canadians still file bankruptcy due to illness, just as I said - in response to a post insinuating otherwise; and sometimes that includes medical bills. I doubt if Canadians filing for bankruptcy due to an illness are in a better place than Americans filing for bankruptcy due to an illness. Do you think otherwise

Whether they are in a better place would depend on bankruptcy laws, their particular situation and what other kinds of supports were available. The point is, there is less chance of a Canadian having to declare bankruptcy due to an illness because it is much less likely that medical costs will be a major factor in that bankruptcy.

[bush_cheney2004]

It would be dishonest to say that but you are the only one who is on that tangent. The point is, all Canadians are guaranteed the same basic level of health care regardless of their means.

This is not true at all, as there are provincial residency rules and other disqualifiers that prevent some Canadians from getting such care, and even when they have health cards, services vary widely from region to region...province to province. Some Canadians can't even find a GP, the gatekeeper to health care procedures.

[Wilber]

This is not true at all, as there are provincial residency rules and other disqualifiers that prevent some Canadians from getting such care, and even when they have health cards, services vary widely from region to region...province to province. Some Canadians can't even find a GP, the gatekeeper to health care procedures.

Services do vary from province to province but the Canada Health Act guarantees the same coverage for all. There is a shortage of GP's and in some places it is difficult to find a family doctor but there are drop in clinics where physicians provide services to those who don't have a family doctor or when their doctor is not available. Not the most desirable situation but people do have access to doctors.

Read and learn. http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page2.html

Read and Learn

[bush_cheney2004]

Read and Learn

Are you denying that certain Canadians are denied provincial coverage because they do not meet residency rules ?

[Wilber]

Are you denying that certain Canadians are denied provincial coverage because they do not meet residency rules ?

Why should we provide medical coverage for non residents?

[bush_cheney2004]

Why should we provide medical coverage for non residents?

That isn't the point...you claimed that "all Canadians" get the same basic level of care. That is not true, for several reasons, as cited above.

[Wilber]

That isn't the point...you claimed that "all Canadians" get the same basic level of care. That is not true, for several reasons, as cited above.

Actually, you don't even have to be a Canadian, just a landed immigrant or permanent resident will do. Even those requesting refugee status qualify

Edited October 19, 2013 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, you don't even have to be a Canadian, just a landed immigrant or permanent resident will do.

You are dodging the issue...not sure why...but it ain't equal for "all Canadians" when it comes to basic health care, and it never will be. Some procedures are not even covered by some provinces.

[Wilber]

You are dodging the issue...not sure why...but it ain't equal for "all Canadians" when it comes to basic health care, and it never will be. Some procedures are not even covered by some provinces.

Well if you and AW want to play the stupid game feel free but the fact is anyone who qualifies as a resident is covered within three months of qualifying for residency. That is the law of the land.

[Guest American Woman]

Well if you and AW want to play the stupid game feel free but the fact is anyone who qualifies as a resident is covered within three months of qualifying for residency. That is the law of the land.

Pointing out the reality - that illness is a major reason Canadians file for bankruptcy too -. is a "stupid game?"

[bush_cheney2004]

Well if you and AW want to play the stupid game feel free but the fact is anyone who qualifies as a resident is covered within three months of qualifying for residency. That is the law of the land.

That's better...and a far more accurate statement than "all Canadians" get the same basic level of care, because they don't. Even the "stupid" wait times vary within and between provinces. That's what is really "stupid".

[Wilber]

ls

Pointing out the reality - that illness is a major reason Canadians file for bankruptcy too -. is a "stupid game?"

Well when all you can do is tie illness to bankruptcy (Really, there could be a connection? Who knew.) without regard to the effect medical expenses may have on it and all BC can do is take a quote like "all Canadians" out of context and hang on to them like your lives depend on it tells me you are out of ideas.

[bush_cheney2004]

ls

Well when all you can do is tie illness to bankruptcy (Really, there could be a connection? Who knew.) without regard to the effect medical expenses may have on it and all BC can do is take a quote like "all Canadians" out of context and hang on to them like your lives depend on it tells me you are out of ideas.

Sorry if exploding the myths of "free" health care without any related bankruptcies in Canada ruins the fun, but I don't have to drink the Flavor-Aid, not in Canada or the U.S. Health care is not a right in either nation.

[Guest American Woman]

Well when all you can do is tie illness to bankruptcy (Really, there could be a connection? Who knew.) without regard to the effect medical expenses may have on it and all BC can do is take a quote like "all Canadians" out of context and hang on to them like your lives depend on it tells me you are out of ideas.

Again. Americans filing for bankruptcy due to an illness face the same obstacles Canadians filing due to illness face, yet it's all blamed on 'medical bills' when Americans file. You don't want to address that fact? You'd rather insult me? That being the case, it appears as if you're the one who is "out of ideas."

"Loss of significant income due to an illness" is included in 'medical bankruptcy stats' in the U.S.; it's a factor here, too. In both of our countries illness is a major reason for bankruptcy.

We hear that no one in Canada ever dies from lack of health care as Americans are supposedly dropping like flies for lack of healthcare, and neither scenario is true. If you can't deal with it when that's pointed out, if you have to resort to insults, the problem lies with you.

[waldo]

Pointing out the reality - that illness is a major reason Canadians file for bankruptcy too -. is a "stupid game?"

again with bankruptcy? I thought we had covered this to the nth degree in the 'U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare' thread... several studies were referenced to reinforce the significant impact health costs have in American's personal bankruptcy filings. We also covered off that distinction between Canada and the U.S.: in Canada medical problems are a factor... in the U.S., it's medical expenses/problems driving bankruptcy, with expenses far outweighing problems.

[Wilber]

Sorry if exploding the myths of "free" health care without any related bankruptcies in Canada ruins the fun, but I don't have to drink the Flavor-Aid, not in Canada or the U.S. Health care is not a right in either nation.

It doesn't ruin anything for me, I'm fully aware that there are short comings in our system and who said it was a right? It has however been the law in Canada for nearly 50 years.

[waldo]

if you have to resort to insults, the problem lies with you.

how's your apology to MLW member Argus coming along... you know, for the insult you threw his way... you know, for the, as you say, "problem that lied with you"!

[bush_cheney2004]

It doesn't ruin anything for me, I'm fully aware that there are short comings in our system and who said it was a right? It has however been the law in Canada for nearly 50 years.

They are not "shortcomings" at all....except for those who expect government to take "good care of them" Maybe Canadians should sign up for Obamacare too.....here is the link:

https://www.healthcare.gov/

[Wilber]

They are not "shortcomings" at all....except for those who expect government to take "good care of them" Maybe Canadians should sign up for Obamacare too.....here is the link:

https://www.healthcare.gov/

Maybe you should, it's your program. Unlike you and our system, I have had nothing to say about it except it seems a little complicated and to wish you well with it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe you should, it's your program. Unlike you and our system, I have had nothing to say about it except it seems a little complicated and to wish you well with it.

Nothing about bankruptcies ? I must have misread those posts...my bad. As for Obamacare, I am double insured for medical, dental, and eye care, with far better coverage and access to world class services than government financed care in Canada or the U.S.

...with no waiting !

[Wilber]

Nothing about bankruptcies ? I must have misread those posts...my bad.

Yes you must have.

As for Obamacare, I am double insured for medical, dental, and eye care, with far better coverage and access to world class services than government financed care in Canada or the U.S.

...with no waiting !

Shady started a thread about how crappy "Obama Care" was, so I was under the impression this was about pre and post "Obama Care" but then it became about the Canadian system and now it seems to be about how good your coverage is, so excuse me if I am confused. I'm happy that you have such good coverage but I thought the whole idea about "Obama Care" was supposed to be about those who have no coverage but I may be mistaken. I don't claim to know anything about "Obama Care" so I have refrained from expressing any opinions on it, unlike you who seems to think he knows everything about the Canadian system.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Wilber