Ontario Math Scores Down

[socialist]

This proves that drill and kill doesn't work. There needs to be a more open ended style of mathematics taught in schools. Let kids discover math strateies on their own which will foster understanding. I have a link, but I do not like the source as they are right -wing puppets to corporate intererests.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/01/math-scores-sag-despite-liberal-spending

[Topaz]

I wonder if the reason for the low score is that most kids are using calculators and not their brain and how many teachers were taught on the calculator themselves. I don't know what the math programs are like now, but they need to teach kids about business math sometime during their time in school, so they know how to budget and know what a budget is and that if you spend more they you earn, you are in big trouble!!

[Keepitsimple]

This proves that drill and kill doesn't work. There needs to be a more open ended style of mathematics taught in schools. Let kids discover math strateies on their own which will foster understanding. I have a link, but I do not like the source as they are right -wing puppets to corporate intererests.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/01/math-scores-sag-despite-liberal-spending

I don't think you read the article - which also appeared in the Star. The problem is that the teachers have moved AWAY from what you call "drill and kill" and introduced their wooly-headed theories before kids have mastered the basics. Here's an excerpt:

Doretta Wilson, executive director of the Society for Quality Education, says the latest math results were achieved, or should I say not achieved, even as students are allowed to use calculators in class and during the standardized tests.

She says the problem has been, and continues to be, that the math curriculum in the primary grades does not focus enough on teaching the basics — like making sure students know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. “The curriculum is a mile wide and an inch deep,” she says, noting there is far too much emphasis on creative problem solving and allowing students to “discover math” for themselves.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Keepitsimple

[PIK]

Maybe teachers should start spending more time on the kids then their thier entitlements.

[cybercoma]

I don't think you read the article - which also appeared in the Star. The problem is that the teachers have moved AWAY from what you call "drill and kill" and introduced their wooly-headed theories before kids have mastered the basics. Here's an excerpt:

Are you really going to drop that link and take the word of "Society for Quality Education" at face value?

[socialist]

Are you really going to drop that link and take the word of "Society for Quality Education" at face value?

Why do you think you are such an authority on education? Everyone has to think your way or they aren't credible. No wonder this country is in trouble.

[GostHacked]

Why do you think you are such an authority on education? Everyone has to think your way or they aren't credible. No wonder this country is in trouble.

I'll go with the answer that 3x4=12 instead of the new math of 11. Your life actually depends on math being consistently true. How safe would buildings be if construction companies only had to do was show the work instead of getting the right answer? In this example measurements, calculations, load bearing, wind shear resistance, structural integrity and on and on and on.

How would you even build a nuke plant that is safe if only ... I shudder at the thought.

[kimmy]

Did Pliny move to Ontario?

-k

[bleeding heart]

Why do you think you are such an authority on education? Everyone has to think your way or they aren't credible. No wonder this country is in trouble.

You've got to be kidding. You assert all manner of things as authoritatively as anyone else.

Edited September 4, 2013 by bleeding heart

[cybercoma]

Why do you think you are such an authority on education? Everyone has to think your way or they aren't credible. No wonder this country is in trouble.

Sure thing, bud. You take that conservative think-tank at face value then. Let me know when you abandon the teaching methods you've been blabbing about all over the forum because that's exactly what they criticize.

[socialist]

Sure thing, bud. You take that conservative think-tank at face value then. Let me know when you abandon the teaching methods you've been blabbing about all over the forum because that's exactly what they criticize.

Well, if you're going to whine, then there is no point debating with you.

[AngusThermopyle]

Well, if you're going to whine, then there is no point debating with you.

Wow! You just don't get it do you? Its hard for me to believe that something so obvious has apparently flown right over your head, but there it is I suppose. What Cyber is telling you is that the link you provided presents evidence that directly refutes what you have previously stated to be the preferred new teaching methods. In simpler terms, just so you can understand, the link says that you are wrong when you state the new ways are better. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you?

What I personally find hilarious is the fact that you provided a link as evidence of your point and it actually plainly states that you are full of sh*t. You couldn't make that up. Its just too damned good to be true! And you say you're going to be a teacher...LOL.

[socialist]

Wow! You just don't get it do you? Its hard for me to believe that something so obvious has apparently flown right over your head, but there it is

I don't think you read the article - which also appeared in the Star. The problem is that the teachers have moved AWAY from what you call "drill and kill" and introduced their wooly-headed theories before kids have mastered the basics. Here's an excerpt:

I said to look at the unreliable source. Math facts, long division, long multiplication are for dinosaurs. Go teach a math class and understand how learners learn before beeking me. Everyone's an expert typing at their computers.

I suppose. What Cyber is telling you is that the link you provided presents evidence that directly refutes what you have previously stated to be the preferred new teaching methods. In simpler terms, just so you can understand, the link says that you are wrong when you state the new ways are better. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you?

What I personally find hilarious is the fact that you provided a link as evidence of your point and it actually plainly states that you are full of sh*t. You couldn't make that up. Its just too damned good to be true! And you say you're going to be a teacher...LOL.

[Mighty AC]

I see this as support for a more student centered approach. We have to allow students to proceed through concepts at their own pace, mastering each before proceeding on to the next. Moving through concepts as a whole class forces some students to move on before they are ready and holds others back. Unit B builds on unit A. How well will students who received a C or D on unit A fair on B?

[hitops]

I see this as support for a more student centered approach. We have to allow students to proceed through concepts at their own pace, mastering each before proceeding on to the next. Moving through concepts as a whole class forces some students to move on before they are ready and holds others back. Unit B builds on unit A. How well will students who received a C or D on unit A fair on B?

There's no doubt that more personal time per student and tailoring to their needs is the most helpful. But this ultimately comes down to the parents, the taxpayer cannot afford universal education of that kind. Students used to do quite well vs rest of the world with the standard approach. We have not evolved in beings incapable of classroom learning, we have simply had cultural training to be unfocused, undisciplined and lazy. And a it starts with the parents, who prefer vegging in front of American Idol and working overtime every day for the bimmer payments, rather than holding the stick at home and making sure those marks are good.

Edited September 5, 2013 by hitops

[socialist]

I see this as support for a more student centered approach. We have to allow students to proceed through concepts at their own pace, mastering each before proceeding on to the next. Moving through concepts as a whole class forces some students to move on before they are ready and holds others back. Unit B builds on unit A. How well will students who received a C or D on unit A fair on B?

Kind of hard when a teacher is rsponsible for teaching 80-100 outcomes per year. You people who think you have all the answers obviously have never been in a modern classroom. Acting like an expert on a topic you know nothing about makes people look foolish.

[GostHacked]

Kind of hard when a teacher is rsponsible for teaching 80-100 outcomes per year. You people who think you have all the answers obviously have never been in a modern classroom. Acting like an expert on a topic you know nothing about makes people look foolish.

First year teachers, like you claim to be, are hardly experts.

[Mighty AC]

Kind of hard when a teacher is rsponsible for teaching 80-100 outcomes per year. You people who think you have all the answers obviously have never been in a modern classroom. Acting like an expert on a topic you know nothing about makes people look foolish.

This is the direction that education is going and there are a variety of ways to achieve it. Odd that you would respond this way since, this would have been a major topic during your claimed recent stint at teachers college.

Anyway, the video below shows one method of teaching concepts to the point mastery that most resembles the traditional classroom format. Basically teachers work as a team, teach a unit/concept, formatively assess their own class and then group the classes into reteach and enrichment groups. One teacher handles the reteach group and another teaches the enrichment class.

[The_Squid]

Shouldn't socialist be teaching right now? Sure has a lot of time to post comments here...

[socialist]

Shouldn't socialist be teaching right now? Sure has a lot of time to post comments here...

I didn't post during school hours.

Anyway, here is another article from the Globe and Mail that is mostly nonsense. I don't get how people with no backround in education think they are experts. The 300 comments that follow the article are again filled with people who don't understand modern mathematics. Go to teachers' college and read the latest research to understand current trends. Memorizing timestables and doing long division are relics of the ancient past. Time to move on and help kids UNDERSTAND math. That's the key wor that some of you can't grasp. UNDERSTAND.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/whos-failing-math-the-system/article14112165/

Edited September 6, 2013 by socialist

[GostHacked]

From your article socialist.
...

Ontario Education Minister Liz Sandals thinks she knows why scores are slipping. Most elementary school teachers have backgrounds in the liberal arts. Their acquaintance with math is sketchy at best. (Ms. Sandals, no slouch with numbers, has a masters degree in math.) And teachers’ college doesn’t give them enough grounding. “We need to deal with math so that the teachers have the same comfort level with teaching math that they do with reading and writing,” she said last week.

So you got one of those fancy math degrees, or some liberal art ones?

The bolded part is the clincher.

Edited September 7, 2013 by GostHacked

[socialist]

From your article socialist.

...

So you got one of those fancy math degrees, or some liberal art ones?

The bolded part is the clincher.

I have the proper requirements. There is too much emphasis on math and not enough on social justice.

And some of you who criticize unions need to learn the facts. A friend of mine in Manitoba sent me this information. Wy don't yo do yourself some good by reading it and understanding .

http://www.mbteach.org/unionwatch/unionmain.html

[GostHacked]

I have the proper requirements. There is too much emphasis on math and not enough on social justice.

Using your creative discovery methods, I challenge you to devise a plan to set a person on the moon. Show your work. No worries, even if you don't do your work, you will still be given a mark for not even trying, because no child shall be left behind.

[socialist]

Using your creative discovery methods, I challenge you to devise a plan to set a person on the moon. Show your work. No worries, even if you don't do your work, you will still be given a mark for not even trying, because no child shall be left behind.

I can't believe your high level of ignorance about the topic of education. That scares me.

[GostHacked]

I can't believe your high level of ignorance about the topic of education. That scares me.

Actually I am giving you the opportunity to demonstrate your method called the 'discovery method' is valid and is beneficial.

Calling for proof is not ignorance, but the complete opposite. Sorry if I don't swallow all the same things you do.