"Disappearing Palestine" bus ads anger Jewish groups

[Rue]

Lol will anyone discuss the bus ads that disappeared? Nah that would be expecting people to respond to the thread. As long as it contains comments questioning the right of Jews to have citizenship why worry about the title of the thread, the subject of the thread and hey let's call it local politics. I mean Lord knows Israel is a locality in Toronto.

[jbg]

GA 181 isn't a legally binding agreement it is merely a suggestion by the UN. Israel accepting the original map and the Palestinians not accepting it doesn't afford Israel the Palestinians land regardless if a war happened or not.

The Arabs rejected GA 181 and must face the consequences. Frankly they were shielded from those consequences and it is there fault, not Israel's, that their response has exacerbated suffering.

Right after the formation of Israel, the surrounding Arab countries attacked. The U.S. had illegalized the sale of armaments to the nascent Jewish state. Miraculously the IDF, in forming, somehow cobbled together smuggled weapons, and weapons that Czechoslovakia opportunistically sold for badly needed cash. When Israel, against all odds not only survived the attacks but began expanding beyond the undefendable borders the U.N. gave them, the U.S stepped in to make sure that Israel remained defenseless. Truman could only buck the bureaucracy so far. The anti-Jewish Eisenhower Administration (again largely the State Department) again hobbled Israel during the 1956 War. Now, the world is focused on Israel's handling of territories it seized after Arabs provoked the 1967 War by blockading Israel.

Israel is right not to accept "heads I win, tails you lose." If they are attacked, they can defend themselves. Regardless of Western efforts to make them fight with both hands tied behind their backs. If someone else starts a war, taking territory from those countries and peoples is just fine.

[jacee]

If someone else starts a war, taking territory from those countries and peoples is just fine.

All old news jbg.

Taking territory?

What about the people?

Israel doesn't want millions of Arabs.

What does Israel intend to do with the Palestinians?

And you haven't answered:

Are you saying the settlements are justified and should continue to expand?

.

Edited July 5, 2016 by jacee

[Bryan]

This thread contains anti semitic drivel

Where? Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism. If anyone here was saying anything that was truly anti-semitic, I missed it. Can you point it out?

[jacee]

Where? Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism. If anyone here was saying anything that was truly anti-semitic, I missed it. Can you point it out?

taxme Edited July 5, 2016 by jacee

[jbg]

Where? Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism. If anyone here was saying anything that was truly anti-semitic, I missed it. Can you point it out?

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. Why is it that "national self-determination" is a mantra except when it comes to the Jews?

During the years that the Old City of Jerusalem was under Arab control it was never visited by any Arab dignitary. Israel is, compared to just about every country in the world, impossibly small. So what's the big deal?

[Bryan]

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

If you really believe that, then you're simply not a rational actor in this conversation. They are very distinct positions.

[jbg]

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. Why is it that "national self-determination" is a mantra except when it comes to the Jews?

If you really believe that, then you're simply not a rational actor in this conversation. They are very distinct positions.

That is not at all an irrational position. If a person takes the position that Jews are not entitled to a state but virtually all others are, it is anti-Semitism. The distinctions between Jews and others is far greater than the distinction between, say, Jordanians and Syrians, or Gazans and Egyptians.

So now you'll say that the problem is settlements, or the "1967 borders." The obvious problem there is that the Arabs never accepted the 1949 Armistice Lines (the so-called 1967 borders). They never accepted any boundaries for a Jewish State whatsoever. To my mind, opposing the Jews having a state within defensible borders or, to use the less restrictive U.N. language in Resolution 242 "secure, recognized borders" is anti-Semitism. The day the Arabs demonstrate a real intention to settle within any recognized borders and concentrate on state-building rather than belligerency will be the day that peace arrives.

Just ask Anwar Sadat, who flew to Jerusalem and effectively came back with all of Egypt's pre-1967 territories, under conditions that forbade rearmament.

Edited July 5, 2016 by jbg

[Big Guy]

Is that "Disappearing Palestine" map ad accurate?

If not, then where is it a mistake?

[jacee]

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. Why is it that "national self-determination" is a mantra except when it comes to the Jews?

'National self-determination' that pushes other people off their land ... is called conquest, aggression, invasion, war, genocide.

It's not Jewishness that is the issue, it's not antisemitism to deplore the insidious aggression of Israel's actions against Palestinians.

You are using antisemitism as a crutch, a distraction, a weapon of propaganda.

.

[jbg]

'National self-determination' that pushes other people off their land ... is called conquest, aggression, invasion, war, genocide.

It's not Jewishness that is the issue, it's not antisemitism to deplore the insidious aggression of Israel's actions against Palestinians.

You are using antisemitism as a crutch, a distraction, a weapon of propaganda.

.

National self-determination often negatively affects locals. Just ask the Russian speaking people in the eastern part of Ukraine.Speaking of that area, where are the tears for Russia's invasion, in all but name, of Crimea?

And how does Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian and Georgan self-determination affect their Russian speaking minority? How did the Greek Orthodox feel about the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople?

[Bryan]

That is not at all an irrational position.

It really is. And the more you try to justify it, the more irrational it gets.

[BC_chick]

That is not at all an irrational position. If a person takes the position that Jews are not entitled to a state but virtually all others are, it is anti-Semitism. The distinctions between Jews and others is far greater than the distinction between, say, Jordanians and Syrians, or Gazans and Egyptians.

So now you'll say that the problem is settlements, or the "1967 borders." The obvious problem there is that the Arabs never accepted the 1949 Armistice Lines (the so-called 1967 borders). They never accepted any boundaries for a Jewish State whatsoever. To my mind, opposing the Jews having a state within defensible borders or, to use the less restrictive U.N. language in Resolution 242 "secure, recognized borders" is anti-Semitism. The day the Arabs demonstrate a real intention to settle within any recognized borders and concentrate on state-building rather than belligerency will be the day that peace arrives.

Just ask Anwar Sadat, who flew to Jerusalem and effectively came back with all of Egypt's pre-1967 territories, under conditions that forbade rearmament.

Fine, but keeping the land is not exactly happening either. If they lost fair and square, Israel should say so (proudly as you do!), keep the land and allow rights to the the Arab populations.

As it stands it's a limbo of it's not their land but they're not Israe's responsibility either. They are a stateless people with virtually no rights.

Explain that.

[eyeball]

That is not at all an irrational position. If a person takes the position that Jews are not entitled to a state but virtually all others are, it is anti-Semitism.

No, it's irrational. No one has said Israel is not entitled to a state, they're just not entitled to the one they have. They should have been given a piece of Germany...a big piece.

[Rue]

If you really believe that, then you're simply not a rational actor in this conversation. They are very distinct positions.

Most of the time on this forum they are not. This forum is polluted with constant attacks on Jews using the pretext to justify it as saying if it insults all Israelis or any Israelis or any or all Zionists its not anti Jewish, just anti Zionist or anti Israel.

You are full of it if you can't see the connection to insulting Jews for being Jews in such comments and on this board, deliberately by the very same people that call any criticism against Muslim terrorism as anti Muslim.

Save your selective bias for the entourage on this forum who think any comment that insults Jews for existing as a collective is not anti semitic.

[Rue]

No, it's irrational. No one has said Israel is not entitled to a state, they're just not entitled to the one they have. They should have been given a piece of Germany...a big piece.

Horse crap. This forum is flooded with continuous posts saying Israel should not exist as a Jewish state and Jews have no right to a Jewish state. For you to deny that is laughable. The forum is polluted with it by you and others.

Go on state it for all to hear Eyeball, state it, put up or shut up, state, it. state you believe Jews have the right to live in a Jewish state, You do not.

You never have.

[Rue]

Fine, but keeping the land is not exactly happening either. If they lost fair and square, Israel should say so (proudly as you do!), keep the land and allow rights to the the Arab populations.

As it stands it's a limbo of it's not their land but they're not Israe's responsibility either. They are a stateless people with virtually no rights.

Explain that.

Explain it? You have been explained it and you don't like the explanation. You deny that Palestinians have a state already in Jordan and want a state that takes up all of Jordan and Israel.

You engage in this bull crap pretend game with the other entourage on this forum that Palestinians are stateless because of Israelis and not their own refusal to recognize and live peacefully side by side a Jewish state.

Save the Palestinians are stateless victims crap. Been done. Been recycled. Palestinians are represented by terrorist groups who do not and will never accept a Jewish Israeli state and call for its destruction . You engage in this fiction that Palestinians are helpless victims. They are not. They had choices. They had a choice to live peacefully side by side a Jewish state. No one is stopping them from that but themselves, Iran and people like you that spew nonsense empowering terrorist groups to keep them hostage.

You've never been to the Gaza or West Bank, and you are in denial as to what the PA, Hamas., Hezbollah, and over 400 other terror cells believe in and broadcast daily to their people. They are in a state of war with Israel to kill any or all Jews worldwide. They won't put on a uniform and engage in a conventional war. Their method is to dress up as women, children, the disabled, or engage in random knife attacks from behind.

You want to pretend Abbas does not applaud this or that Hamas applauds this or that each and every day Abbas says to his people they won't stop until Israeli is dismantled as a Jewish knock yourself out.

Crapm denial and fantasy.

[Rue]

It really is. And the more you try to justify it, the more irrational it gets.

And the more you call it irrational the more you show you are intolerant, have a closed mind, and can't fathom any subjective opinion other than your own.

Your posing as having a monopoly on rationality is a crock. You are just another expert on the Middle East whose never been there.

By the way your name calling, i.e., calling someone irrational, it shows you have no clue how to debate or discuss issues so compensate for that in ability by name calling.

Irrational. Right calling someone irrational is rational. Lol.

[Rue]

'National self-determination' that pushes other people off their land ... is called conquest, aggression, invasion, war, genocide.

It's not Jewishness that is the issue, it's not antisemitism to deplore the insidious aggression of Israel's actions against Palestinians.

You are using antisemitism as a crutch, a distraction, a weapon of propaganda.

.

No you defend anti semites on this board and deny that the pith and substance of their position is that Jews should not have the right to self determination but Muslims can. That is a double standard. Its necessarily anti semitic. It presents one standard for Muslims and Christians and all others who you have no problems having a state, and another for Jews.

The entire debate is about pissing on Jews for being Israel. The words are their loud and clear and your denial of them is laughable.

Oh wait, let me hear it from you that you support the right of Jews to have a Jewish state in Israel-go on state it. Hah.

Go on state it. State Jews have as much of a right to a state as Muslims or Christians do and they have the right to defend themselves against terrorism.

Hah.

Give it a rest. Toyko Rose, Hanoi Jane.... been there done that. You want to be a propaganda shrill for terrorists and anti Jews knock yourself out.

None of you, none of the people on this forum you defend get a free pass for being anti Jew haters because you couch the hatred using the words Zionist or Israeli. Your target of hatred is loud and clear. The notion a Jew is equal to anyone else in their right to have a state, eats away at your gut like the rest of these anti Jews.

The concept of a Jew not knowing their place as a stateless person eats away at you.

Tough Jacee. I don't step n fetch for you or any other fool who thinks they know where my place is on this planet.

You want to try dictate to me and Jews what our place is, I got two words for you NEVER AGAIN.

Take your dhimmitude, khafir designation, and stateless demand of us, and get out of our Jewish faces. Boo.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Rue

[jacee]

National self-determination often negatively affects locals. Just ask the Russian speaking people in the eastern part of Ukraine.Speaking of that area, where are the tears for Russia's invasion, in all but name, of Crimea?

And how does Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian and Georgan self-determination affect their Russian speaking minority? How did the Greek Orthodox feel about the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople?

Why don't you start a thread for that.

This thread is about 'disappearing' Palestine, Israel's insidious aggression, clearly displayed in the bus ad.

.

[Bryan]

And the more you call it irrational the more you show you are intolerant, have a closed mind, and can't fathom any subjective opinion other than your own.

Your posing as having a monopoly on rationality is a crock. You are just another expert on the Middle East whose never been there.

By the way your name calling, i.e., calling someone irrational, it shows you have no clue how to debate or discuss issues so compensate for that in ability by name calling.

Irrational. Right calling someone irrational is rational. Lol.

Thank you for proving my point.

[jacee]

Horse crap. This forum is flooded with continuous posts saying Israel should not exist as a Jewish state and Jews have no right to a Jewish state.

The only one saying that is you.

And you're just doing it as propaganda, because you refuse to answer legitimate questions, like:

What does Israel plan to do with the Arabs who live in Palestine?

.

[eyeball]

Horse crap. This forum is flooded with continuous posts saying Israel should not exist as a Jewish state and Jews have no right to a Jewish state. For you to deny that is laughable. The forum is polluted with it by you and others.

Go on state it for all to hear Eyeball, state it, put up or shut up, state, it. state you believe Jews have the right to live in a Jewish state, You do not.

You never have.

Jews have a right to live in a Jewish state, it just should have been somewhere else is all. Too late now I guess.

[GostHacked]

Horse crap. This forum is flooded with continuous posts saying Israel should not exist as a Jewish state and Jews have no right to a Jewish state. For you to deny that is laughable. The forum is polluted with it by you and others.

Go on state it for all to hear Eyeball, state it, put up or shut up, state, it. state you believe Jews have the right to live in a Jewish state, You do not.

You never have.

The ONLY person that has said Israel should not exist is me. I stated it here a couple times. HOWEVER the state exists and there is no going back ... so ... Your consistent attacks on other members for things that were never said are deplorable and has severely degraded the civility here on MLW.

But your tactics mimic other members who have twisted words and associated something to them which they never said. And no matter how many times things are clarified, you STILL go on on a tear about it. We could all use a break from this bull.

[jacee]

I'm beginning to think rue is an anti-Israel agent.

He does such a good job of p'ng people off against Israel.

Horse crap. This forum is flooded with continuous posts saying Israel should not exist as a Jewish state and Jews have no right to a Jewish state. For you to deny that is laughable. The forum is polluted with it by you and others.

Rue, you're talking to three reasonable people here who - yes - have some valid concerns about Israel's aggression.

If this forum is polluted with anything, it's white supremacists, who are antiSemitic AND antiMuslim.

You're not very good at distinguishing between antiSemites and legitimate criticism of Israel.

.

Edited July 7, 2016 by jacee