"Disappearing Palestine" bus ads anger Jewish groups

[Guest American Woman]

I suggest offering dre an apology after going off on her for your typo.

I suggest offering dre an apology for calling him "her."

[GostHacked]

I suggest offering dre an apology for calling him "her."

Typo.

[DogOnPorch]

I suggest offering dre an apology for calling him "her."

When the same folks that placed that ad post a similar ad showing their buddies in Hamas dragging folks behind motorbikes...I might feel they've SOME impartiality.

[dre]

When the same folks that placed that ad post a similar ad showing their buddies in Hamas dragging folks behind motorbikes...I might feel they've SOME impartiality

You arent interest in impartiality. You want them to espouse your confused ethnocentric bias, or shut the hell up.

[DogOnPorch]

You arent interest in impartiality. You want them to espouse your confused ethnocentric bias, or shut the hell up.

That's right. I'm the guy dragging folks behind motor bikes. I confess.

[dre]

That's right. I'm the guy dragging folks behind motor bikes. I confess.

No youre the guy using that anecdote as an excuse to marginalize as entire population and ethnic group, 99.999 percent of which have never dragged anyone behind a motor bike either.

This is really nothing more than garden variety racism. Emotional and provocative events are used to paint a wider demographic in a negative light, or to marginalize their concerns, rights, and so on.

Image of extremists dragging a person behind a motor cycle = 4 million people should be denied the right to self determination and to live on their own land.

Your exact mindset is behind the persecution of the jews you think you are defending now, and ironically you fail to see it.

[DogOnPorch]

No youre the guy using that anecdote as an excuse to marginalize as entire population and ethnic group, 99.999 percent of which have never dragged anyone behind a motor bike either.

This is really nothing more than garden variety racism. Emotional and provocative events are used to paint a wider demographic in a negative light, or to marginalize their concerns, rights, and so on.

Image of extremists dragging a person behind a motor cycle = 4 million people should be denied the right to self determination and to live on their own land.

Your exact mindset is behind the persecution of the jews you think you are defending now, and ironically you fail to see it.

Try as you might, it was not I that attacked Israel...lost...and then moved all these folks into concentration camps rather than giving them some new homes. That was the folks you champion.

[dre]

Try as you might, it was not I that attacked Israel...lost...and then moved all these folks into concentration camps rather than giving them some new homes. That was the folks you champion.

I didnt champion any folks over there, I simply attacked your impartiality, which kinda makes sense because you have none.

And this post is a strawman too. And your underlying claims are historically innaccurate. Both sides have spent their fair share of time on the offensive.

[DogOnPorch]

I didnt champion any folks over there, I simply attacked your impartiality, which kinda makes sense because you have none.

And this post is a strawman too. And your underlying claims are historically innaccurate. Both sides have spent their fair share of time on the offensive.

Feel free to link me to one of your many pro-Israeli posts and then talk to me about your impartiality.

As for your whitewashing of the various Arab invasions: The Arabs started the war. Not the Israelis. The Israelis were invaded by every Arab country/state/group that could muster an army. The Mufti...a high ranking SS man in the 3rd Reich who escaped the hangman's noose...was the "Palestinian's" leader who also led the call to war after rejecting the UN Partition of the British Mandate of Palestine. His terrorist nephew, Yasser Arafat, went on to lead the cause after the Mufti's retirement in the early 1960s.

Point out the inaccuracies, if you could.

[GostHacked]

I'd be rejecting the UN plan as well if I had lived in the area. Call me crazy, but people should be upset that the partitioning and fate of the region lies in the hands of people in another region .. Europe.

[DogOnPorch]

I'd be rejecting the UN plan as well if I had lived in the area. Call me crazy, but people should be upset that the partitioning and fate of the region lies in the hands of people in another region .. Europe.

You realize that the Jews bought the land fair and square from the Ottoman Empire...right? Probably not.

The Allies fought and won the Great War. Tens of thousands died freeing the region from the Ottoman Empire so that these folks could build nations.

[Rue]

You arent interest in impartiality. You want them to espouse your confused ethnocentric bias, or shut the hell up.

Show one word or reference where he has asked or demanded anyone agree with him or think like him. Finish the accusation you started.

More Dre you are funny!

[DogOnPorch]

Show one word or reference where he has asked or demanded anyone agree with him or think like him. Finish the accusation you started.

More Dre you are funny!

Thanks, Rue.

[Rue]

No youre the guy using that anecdote as an excuse to marginalize as entire population....

Your exact mindset is behind the persecution of the jews you think you are defending now, and ironically you fail to see it.

1. You regularly have used arguments that denigrate the entire Jewish people when challenging the right of Israel to exist and Jews to have a state;

2. Your m.o. has been to lump anyone who supports Israel as a nation into the category of racist, colonialist, invader, anti-Arab-I lost track of the Zionism is racism b.s. allegations and giggles or how many times you and Black dog cheer on people screaming out deliberately hate inciting comments about all Jews and Israelis;

3. In light of 1 and 2, your accusing the person of marginalizing people is hilarious-the very thing you do, thrown back in your face and you can't see the irony in the tit for tat you incited-you throw dung, its thrown back at you and you act horrified?

4. Hah.

Now one last comment as to the absurd and illogical argument that regulating freedom of speech prevents it from being free.

We have laws that do not allow us freedom of speech precisely to assure that freedom of speech is not used in a manner that prevents others from having free speech or might incite hatred, violence or can cause property or reputational damage.

Defamation of character laws are an obvious example. No I can not write what-ever I feel like. If what I write is not clearly conveyed as a subjective opinion and is proven false, and then can be shown to have caused someone damages from losing business or damaging their reputation, they can sue for compensation in civil court. If those statements are in writing we call them libelous. If they are communicated orally we call them slanderous and either may be actionable.

We have hate laws and human rights laws as well. All these laws came about because if people could just run about in total freedom there would be an increase of conflicts.

Engaging in free speech like driving a car I f not controlled would soon turn into a series of collisions inciting anger, hatred, conflict.

The fact we have red lights at intersections does not mean people cannot drive their car freely.

So this ludicrous argument that if you put a red light up people can no longer drive their car freely is absolute b.s.

Free speech is seen by many on this board as an absolute inalienable right provided it is their opinion being stated. The moment it is someone else's the very same people who demand their opinions be spoken without restriction do what Dre does, respond with accusations of racism. They try shut down the tit for tat with tactics that name call to try impugn the motives of the other side's agenda with ZERO proof.

A skilled debater doesn't fall for the bait and switch tactics of Dre or Black Dog. They just tap dance around the obvious I inconsistencies and point them out such as-say Dre you talk about Jews, Zionists and Israelis in the very manner you accuse your opponent of doing with Palestinians...hah you are funny....more Dre! More!

Edited September 11, 2013 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Actually I think I am the ONLY person on this board who has come out to say that I do not believe that Israel has a right to exist, and with the caveat, at the expense of other people.

But regardless of what I think or feel, Israel does exist.

On and on we go about this. And the ads did exactly what I think were their intention. Trolling staunch Israel supporters. Seemed to have worked.

The ads show a geographic and demographic truth REGARDLESS of the reasons for being this truth and how it got this way. We have tossed back and forth about the reasons for how it got this way, but in the end we can all agree that it IS this way.

Israel managed to exist due to the Zionists and with help of the international community. Once Israel was created, war started. IN retrospect war was the only option as the surrounding future states did not want Israel to be placed smack dab in the middle of all the dirty Arabs (not my words but words of some posters around here). Palestine now is officially recognized by the international community and if they defend their land against Israel Zionist occupation of a now recognized sovereign state it's treated with hostility and a lot of ranting rhetoric.

[Guest American Woman]

The ads show a geographic and demographic truth REGARDLESS of the reasons for being this truth and how it got this way.

Are you saying the whole story doesn't matter? That reasons don't matter? What a ludicrous concept. Of course reasons matter. Reasons often make all the difference. Say you shoot and kill X in self defense. You are not even charged, because it was obviously self defense. X's family pays to have a big sign put on a bus: "Gosthacked killed our son! Shot him dead!" That would be the truth. Does the reason you shot X matter?

[dre]

1. You regularly have used arguments that denigrate the entire Jewish people when challenging the right of Israel to exist and Jews to have a state;

2. Your m.o. has been to lump anyone who supports Israel as a nation into the category of racist, colonialist, invader, anti-Arab-I lost track of the Zionism is racism b.s. allegations and giggles or how many times you and Black dog cheer on people screaming out deliberately hate inciting comments about all Jews and Israelis;

3. In light of 1 and 2, your accusing the person of marginalizing people is hilarious-the very thing you do, thrown back in your face and you can't see the irony in the tit for tat you incited-you throw dung, its thrown back at you and you act horrified?

4. Hah.

This is just pure fantasy on your part which is why you are always unable to provide a shred of evidence, or link to any posts of mine to that effect.

Iv never challenged the right of Israel to exist ever, in fact I support it for the same reasons I support the right of palestinians to have have their own state. Theres 8 million people living in Israel, and it would be absurd to suggest they dont have the right to their own state, and self determination. But that same argument holds true for people in the occupied territories.

YOU are the one trying to deny millions of people the right to self determination. Not me.

[BC_chick]

1. You regularly have used arguments that denigrate the entire Jewish people when challenging the right of Israel to exist and Jews to have a state;

2. Your m.o. has been to lump anyone who supports Israel as a nation into the category of racist, colonialist, invader, anti-Arab-I lost track of the Zionism is racism b.s. allegations and giggles or how many times you and Black dog cheer on people screaming out deliberately hate inciting comments about all Jews and Israelis;

3. In light of 1 and 2, your accusing the person of marginalizing people is hilarious-the very thing you do, thrown back in your face and you can't see the irony in the tit for tat you incited-you throw dung, its thrown back at you and you act horrified?

4. Hah.

Dre's post to DOP did a good job of pointing out a flaw in punishing all Palestinians based on the actions of some. DOP's assertion lacks logic and it IS racist. Personally, I can't even be bothered with trollish posts that imply Palestinians as a whole don't have a right to self-determination just because some of them are crappy people. Dre was actually pretty patient.

And without skipping a beat, here you are calling him a Jew-hater. Typical of all Israel threads. DOP makes illogical arguments and anyone who points that out is a Jew-hater according to you.

[BC_chick]

Actually I think I am the ONLY person on this board who has come out to say that I do not believe that Israel has a right to exist, and with the caveat, at the expense of other people.

But regardless of what I think or feel, Israel does exist.

I don't think Israel HAD a right to exist, but it would be wrong now, some 60+ years later, to displace the Jewish people who call the land home.

So given how history has unfolded, it does HAVE a right to exist, even though I agree that in 1947 it didn't.

[Guest American Woman]

dre, on 10 Sept 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

You arent interest in impartiality. You want them to espouse your confused ethnocentric bias, or shut the hell up.

Show one word or reference where he [DoP] has asked or demanded anyone agree with him or think like him. Finish the accusation you started.

I'll second that request.

Edited September 11, 2013 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

Now one last comment as to the absurd and illogical argument that regulating freedom of speech prevents it from being free.

We have laws that do not allow us freedom of speech precisely to assure that freedom of speech is not used in a manner that prevents others from having free speech or might incite hatred, violence or can cause property or reputational damage.

Defamation of character laws are an obvious example. No I can not write what-ever I feel like. If what I write is not clearly conveyed as a subjective opinion and is proven false, and then can be shown to have caused someone damages from losing business or damaging their reputation, they can sue for compensation in civil court. If those statements are in writing we call them libelous. If they are communicated orally we call them slanderous and either may be actionable.

We have hate laws and human rights laws as well. All these laws came about because if people could just run about in total freedom there would be an increase of conflicts.

The irony of a documented liar defending free speech limitations aside, this has nothing to do with the issue in question (save to show, once again, how baseless and silly the Chicken Little predictions of KKK ads suddenly appearing on buses are). Yes there are limits to free speech and expression when the consequence is legitimate harm to an individual group or general public. The notion that political speech belongs in the same category as defamation or hate speech is simply risible.

[dre]

I'll second that request.

Read the thread. His object to this add is that they dont tell the story as he would like it told, and therefore its "impartial". His suggestion was for it to incorporate palestinian militants dragging folks behind motorcycles.

[Black Dog]

Read the thread. His object to this add is that they dont tell the story as he would like it told, and therefore its "impartial". His suggestion was for it to incorporate palestinian militants dragging folks behind motorcycles.

You have to wonder what kind of person would look at a bunch of ads put out by a group called the Palestine Awareness Coalition and expect impartiality.

"These Conservative Party attack ads are bogus! They don't give me any reasons why I should vote for the Liberals!"

Edited September 11, 2013 by Black Dog

[dre]

You have to wonder what kind of person would look at a bunch of ads put out by a group called the Palestine Awareness Coalition and expect impartiality.

"These Conservative Party attack ads are bogus! They don't give me any reasons why I should vote for the Liberals!"

The odd thing is people expecting so much out of a low fidelity 2 dimensional geographical image. I guess maps of America are provacative because they dont tell the story of Christopher Columbus, the Civil War, or the Alimo

[Guest American Woman]

Read the thread. His object to this add is that they dont tell the story as he would like it told, and therefore its "impartial". His suggestion was for it to incorporate palestinian militants dragging folks behind motorcycles.

How about rather than giving your take on it, you 'show one word or reference where DoP has asked or demanded anyone agree with him or think like him,' as requested?

Edited September 11, 2013 by American Woman