Gay to Straight Program in Arizona Public Schools

[Guest American Woman]

I know. you think there is only one opinion which overrides everyone else's.

Riiight. I'm the one stating my comments as opinion, as you state your opinion as fact. So. Humor me. Where's the evidence that you don't think your opinion overrides everyone else's?

But don't let reality stop you from making this personal.

On the contrary, you've been illogical about it.

That's your opinion. Again stated as fact. As you criticize me personally.

And ultimately, that's all you've got.

More like ultimately that's all some posts deserve.

[sharkman]

No, it doesn't undermine it. You haven't demonstrated the logic of this claim.

That AC thinks the false story could potentially be something that happens--whether he's right or not--does not undermine his plain, clear, unambiguous admission that he was mistaken.

He is under no obligation to say "it could never happen"...and his admission of error does not for a second depend on such a declaration.

Not sure why you are drawing a line in the sand over this, when a person apologizes they usually don't take a pot shot at the same time.

[Guest American Woman]

Not sure why you are drawing a line in the sand over this, when a person apologizes they usually don't take a pot shot at the same time.

Agreed. It's sort of along the lines of 'I'm sorry I said you were stupid, but you you could be.'

[guyser]

It's just his way of not admitting he was wrong.

English, you should learn it along with others.

"Thanks for verifying that this story is a hoax; I apologize for making a careless post"

Now you should issue an apology....as if that would happen

[bleeding heart]

Riiight. I'm the one stating my comments as opinion, as you state your opinion as fact. So. Humor me. Where's the evidence that you don't think your opinion overrides everyone else's?

Please. That's a ridiculous request. Where's your evidence that you don't do this?

That's your opinion. Again stated as fact. As you criticize me personally.

More like ultimately that's all some posts deserve.

And that's your opinion. Stated as fact.

you see? This is how you're behaving.

Edited August 27, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Shady]

Hey guys, I just read a story about Obama really being born in Kenya!!!!

[Shady]

Never mind guys, my bad. Apparently it's not accurate. But you never know, it could still be possible.

[bleeding heart]

Wrong analogy.

[kimmy]

Proof? Seems to me that this mindset is what led to your believing this satirical piece as fact in the first place. As I said, I knew better than to take it as fact and it took me two seconds to find out it wasn't true.

It's not always easy to tell truth from satire when we're talking about the southern states.

I don't know about "proof", but I can give you an example. Without consulting Google, see if you can tell which of the following items are truth and which are satire:

-Virginia candidate for governor proposes law to outlaw oral sex

-North Carolina legislators propose establishment of a state religion

-Rick Perry still mad that sodomy law was struck down

-Arizona sheriff requires deputies to carry AR-15s at all times, even while off duty

-Kentucky law says that only God can maintain the safety and security of the state.

-28% of Louisiana residents blame G.W.Bush for sloppy response to Hurricane Katrina; 29% blame Obama

-North Carolina law forbids the use of sea level data more recent than 1900 in formulating public policy.

-Virginia candidate for lieutenant governor claims sin causes birth defects and says that God will redistribute wealth.

-illegal for teachers in Tennessee to acknowledge the existence of gay people to students lower than 9th grade

-Arizona sheriff mounts expedition to Hawaii to investigate Obama birth certificate fraud

-Georgia lawmaker argues that women should be required to bring futile pregnancies to term because the animals in his barnyard have to.

-Louisiana law requires that creationism be given "balanced treatment" in public school science classes.

-Kentucky to subsidize building of Noah's Ark museum.

Is it really so easy to tell which are satire?

-k

[sharkman]

One could cherry pick headlines in the previous year from any part of Canada and come up with the same type of strange sounding list. And I suppose you have a point, but the thing is, the American south can get strange, but so can the BC interior, most of Alberta, etc. Pointing fingers when one's own country can have much the same kind of nonsense is kind of pointless.

[kimmy]

Most of that stuff was just from the past few months. It was hardly an exhaustive list. There's crazies everywhere, but the Bible Belt is way out front. The American south has a far higher density of that sort of stupidity than the rest of the United States, because the American south has a far higher density of religious nutjobs than the rest of the United States. But yes, I do have a point.

-k

[cybercoma]

One could cherry pick headlines in the previous year from any part of Canada and come up with the same type of strange sounding list. And I suppose you have a point, but the thing is, the American south can get strange, but so can the BC interior, most of Alberta, etc. Pointing fingers when one's own country can have much the same kind of nonsense is kind of pointless.

So then you admit that it's not so far-fetched to think that the story could be true, since strange things happen in politics everywhere.

[sharkman]

I live outside of Vancouver BC, surely no bible belt around her waist I think we can agree. Yet this lovely, progressive, informed, educated city has seen some of the worst rioting in recent Canadian history. Maybe the crazies down south should take notes. There is an undercurrent of racism here that at times disgusts me. Chinese, Indians, First Nations etc. get to experience the kind of love that some love to blame the Deep South for. I once rode in a truck while a co worker spit out the window in hopes of hitting a gentleman wearing a turban. Bullseye.

Then there are the religious nutjobs who murder their wives or young daughters for the sin of not living the way daddy or husband wants them to. I can't forget about the teenagers who kill themselves rather than face anymore bullying in school. How about pig farmer Pickton who murdered prostitutes with his buddies for years and let the pigs eat the bodies? This has all happened in the Vancouver area alone. You people need to take the blinders off.

[bleeding heart]

I live outside of Vancouver BC, surely no bible belt around her waist I think we can agree. Yet this lovely, progressive, informed, educated city has seen some of the worst rioting in recent Canadian history. Maybe the crazies down south should take notes. There is an undercurrent of racism here that at times disgusts me. Chinese, Indians, First Nations etc. get to experience the kind of love that some love to blame the Deep South for. I once rode in a truck while a co worker spit out the window in hopes of hitting a gentleman wearing a turban. Bullseye.

Then there are the religious nutjobs who murder their wives or young daughters for the sin of not living the way daddy or husband wants them to. I can't forget about the teenagers who kill themselves rather than face anymore bullying in school. How about pig farmer Pickton who murdered prostitutes with his buddies for years and let the pigs eat the bodies? This has all happened in the Vancouver area alone. You people need to take the blinders off.

But the differences between Kimmy's jaw-dropping list and your own is crucial. Racism, serial killers, teenaged suicide....none of these particularly reflect on, or tell us something unique about a particular region (The Canadian far-west), at least not in any clearly demographic way.

More to the point, you're talking about horrrors committed by individuals...and three of the four you mention are flatly illegal, two of them being murder.

kimmy's talking about elected representatives acting on behalf of their constituents.

Edited August 28, 2013 by bleeding heart

[sharkman]

What I'm showing is that throwing stones is pointless. Whether you see this or not is besides the point.

[bleeding heart]

But I'm not sure that comparing two perfectly unlike set of circumstances is in fact showing what you say it is showing.

Even more to the point....what is so special about a region--the American south, in this example--that it deserves this sort of defense? Do you not have criticisms for anyone, or for any entity or group of people?

Edited August 28, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Mighty AC]

Wow, there is far more activity in this thread than I expected. Thanks to Bleeding Heart for defending my apology.

While reading about American Woman's faith that the level of religious and Republican nut jobbery required for the fake story in the OP to be true is simply unthinkable, I started to compile a list of true events that prove otherwise. However, as it turns out Kimmy already put together a more impressive one.

In short, the 'People Can Change' conversion therapy program is real, there are states still deciding if creationism should be taught in science class and governors, congressmen and senators fire off anti-gay statements daily. Plus top Republicans line up to win the approval of wingnut Christian leaders like Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association. Based on that reality the satirical story is sadly plausible.

- Alabama GOP Candidate Wants His Opponents To Promise They're Anti-Gay, Religious Enough

- “I'm not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew in the country every Sunday to know that there’s something wrong with this country when gays can openly serve in the military but our kids can;t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.” ~ Texas Governor Rick Perry

- “If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. ” ~ Rick Santorum

- “If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” ~ Michele Bachmann

- Ohio Creationism Proposal Still Up For Consideration In Springboro Schools

- People Can Change Conversion Therapy

- Fischer: "It Is Altogether Right To Discriminate Against Homosexual Behavior"

[Mighty AC]

Then there are the religious nutjobs who murder their wives or young daughters for the sin of not living the way daddy or husband wants them to. I can't forget about the teenagers who kill themselves rather than face anymore bullying in school. How about pig farmer Pickton who murdered prostitutes with his buddies for years and let the pigs eat the bodies? This has all happened in the Vancouver area alone. You people need to take the blinders off.

It is true that crazy religious folk can be found anywhere. What makes the US south unique is the incredible volume of conservative, fundamentalist Christians, in a first world country, that occupy the highest levels of public office. I expect citizens and leaders of some African nations, with no food, no money, no education, no healthcare, no hope and a life expectancy of 40 to be fervently religious. Their only hope is that the fairy tales are true and something better will come along after death.

Why is this happening in the United States though? It is an extremely wealthy nation, with a very high quality of life and a reasonably good education system. Is it something historical or could it be caused by the incredible wealth disparity?

[sharkman]

Sorry man, I'm listening to a great sermon right now on how adulterers and gays can benefit from being stoned to death.

[bleeding heart]

Didn't you just chastise us for "throwing stones"?

[bleeding heart]

In short, the 'People Can Change' conversion therapy program is real, there are states still deciding if creationism should be taught in science class and governors, congressmen and senators fire off anti-gay statements daily. Plus top Republicans line up to win the approval of wingnut Christian leaders like Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association. Based on that reality the satirical story is sadly plausible.

- Alabama GOP Candidate Wants His Opponents To Promise They're Anti-Gay, Religious Enough

- “I'm not ashamed to admit that I’m a Christian, but you don’t need to be in the pew in the country every Sunday to know that there’s something wrong with this country when gays can openly serve in the military but our kids can;t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.” ~ Texas Governor Rick Perry

- “If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. ” ~ Rick Santorum

- “If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” ~ Michele Bachmann

- Ohio Creationism Proposal Still Up For Consideration In Springboro Schools

- People Can Change Conversion Therapy

- Fischer: "It Is Altogether Right To Discriminate Against Homosexual Behavior"

Yes, the reactionary silliness is real, it's plentiful, and it's endorsed by a lot of powerful and influential political figures.

But evidently it is wrong of you and Kimmy to point this out.

Edited August 28, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Mighty AC]

Sorry man, I'm listening to a great sermon right now on how adulterers and gays can benefit from being stoned to death.

Is he a senator, MP, MPP? Are Prime Ministerial candidates lining up to seek his favour? Like we said stories like this occur everywhere, but at nowhere near the frequency as in red states. Also, you tend not to see top politicians being reelected in Canada after making serious, hate filled, anti-gay remarks. Yet in the US south Republicans are seemingly trying to out hate each other.

I understand that Republicans are courting the Christian vote, but I don't understand why those areas of the country are far more religious. Any thoughts?

[sharkman]

I think you know the answers to the questions you posed. I fail to understand how what this preacher said would be somehow worse if he was a politician. You are naive to think that only one party is courting the christian vote. At any rate, there is no point in continuing since you can't see past your bias. But thanks for the earlier apology.

[Mighty AC]

In my opinion, it is far worse when law makers are the people making hateful, discriminatory remarks. I expect clergy to be fervent practitioners of their religions, and as we all know religious texts contain some very outdated hate.

Typically, politicians court the religious vote and then somewhat distance themselves after being elected. However, in red states there are an abnormally large number of political figures who actively try to ensconce their particular religion's teachings in law. This is no doubt a reflection of the increased religiosity in the bible belt, but I am unsure as to why these areas are so religious in the first place. My personal theory is that dramatic income disparity issues play a role, but was interested to see what others think.

I don't think just one party courts the religious vote. However, in the US the vast majority of extreme religious comments come from members of the Republican party. In Canada, Harper has done a good job of courting then distancing himself from the Christian community. That's not an easy game to play.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Shady]

This thread is a great reminder that the only acceptable group that one can apply prejudice towards continues to be Southerners, particularly white Christian Southerners.