Racism or Secularism? Quebec looking to ban all religious garb.

[Smallc]

I wonder why too, actually. As far as I can tell, there hasn't really been a problem caused by religious freedom in Canada.

[DogOnPorch]

I wonder why too, actually. As far as I can tell, there hasn't really been a problem caused by religious freedom in Canada.

Not yet...

[Boges]

I wonder why too, actually. As far as I can tell, there hasn't really been a problem caused by religious freedom in Canada.

Which is why I contend this is veiled racism by the PQ.

[Smallc]

Not yet...

And there's very little evidence that it will cause a problem. This country is more mixed in terms of ethnicity and religion than any country save perhaps the one immediately south. It hasn't caused a problem.

[cybercoma]

Not yet...

Well, take me through it. What harm does this law pre-emptively address?

[DogOnPorch]

Well, take me through it. What harm does this law pre-emptively address?

Ask the French.

And there's very little evidence that it will cause a problem. This country is more mixed in terms of ethnicity and religion than any country save perhaps the one immediately south. It hasn't caused a problem.

That's wonderful. It also means SFA. Islam is what it is...don't blame me.

[Demosthenes26]

I've never been comfortable with the idea of burqa / niqab Garments. I can understand dressing conservatively as An act of religious expression. But to complete cover yourself. In particular your face is an idea completely foreign to me.

Faces are how we distinguish One another. The niqab/burqa garments prevent such identification, as a result the removal of any individual identity. I cannot fathom why some one is willing to give up their identity in such a manner.

I accept religious expression where people are willing participants. but where it crosses into indoctrination or people are pressured into it. There's a line that's crossed that I/society cannot accept.

I feel that These garments cross that line. I don't think anyone would wear these without undue influence or some level of indoctrination. I find it no coincidence that the societies they come from are a amongst the most sexist and intolerant. where women have no identity, Why would they be treated as equals?

Other religious Kirpans, turbans, crosses etc are no where near as oppressive. I can accept them because they don't deny someone the right to identify themselves. I can understand why someone would want to wear them. But I've never actually heard a reason from a Muslim woman who wears one of the garments. I like to actually hear that.

[cybercoma]

Ask the French.

This isn't France and I'm asking you.

[DogOnPorch]

This isn't France and I'm asking you.

Who said I'm for such a law? You? Ask France why they did it.

[cybercoma]

Who said I'm for such a law? You? Ask France why they did it.

You said there wasn't a problem yet. What I'm asking you to explain is what you're implying. What are they pre-emptively trying solve?

[DogOnPorch]

You said there wasn't a problem yet. What I'm asking you to explain is what you're implying. What are they pre-emptively trying solve?

Seriously, do I need to go into detail about France's ongoing problems with Islam? Are you THAT uninformed? The latest mob riots in France were merely a month ago. Some 'misunderstanding' about France's new face covering law. Go figure...

If you think Canada is immune for such events...that's great. I say if Islam reaches a certain percentage of the population, it's attitude changes. From peaceful to pushy to violent. Do I think we should be equally draconian and try to ban this or that? No! Canada let Islam inside...it's now part and parcel of the country. It will continue to grow. It will eventually gain some measure of control via peaceful means. Unlike you and I, Islam doesn't die...it's here for the win.

[cybercoma]

We're not talking about France. We're talking about Canada. Take me through how it would happen here. What do you think is going to happen?

[cybercoma]

Are they going to take over the government? Change our laws? Turn Canada into a theocracy? Make all Canadian women were burqas? Are we going to have terrorist cells trying to attack Parliament? Or maybe one of our many "World's Largest' landmarks?

Edit: Most importantly, take me through how banning religious symbols...ALL religious symbols...would even prevent this.

Edited August 23, 2013 by cybercoma

[DogOnPorch]

Are they going to take over the government? Change our laws? Turn Canada into a theocracy? Make all Canadian women were burqas? Are we going to have terrorist cells trying to attack Parliament? Or maybe one of our many "World's Largest' landmarks?

Edit: Most importantly, take me through how banning religious symbols...ALL religious symbols...would even prevent this.

lol...You're a comic book. Islam just is. You're trying to make this about individual believers. Islam is an ideology...a popular one. It will simply grow and eventually attain some form of control via peaceful means.

Again...I'm not for banning anything. Stop misrepresenting my position. Islam is here to stay and it is here to WIN. It will outlive both you and I...and our children...and their children...etc.

[g_bambino]

If you ban a religious. Garment (the burka), you have to ban them all.

If burqas are religious garments, are the black suits and white shirts worn by Hassidic Jewish men relgious garments, too?

[cybercoma]

lol...You're a comic book. Islam just is. You're trying to make this about individual believers. Islam is an ideology...a popular one. It will simply grow and eventually attain some form of control via peaceful means.

Again...I'm not for banning anything. Stop misrepresenting my position. Islam is here to stay and it is here to WIN. It will outlive both you and I...and our children...and their children...etc.

How can I be misrepresenting you when all I'm doing is trying to get you to clarify your comment, "not yet." I just want to know what you think will happen. Your only reply has been an equally vague, "ask France" and now you're saying I'm misrepresenting you. All of this coming from my initial post asking anyone to explain what social harm they're trying to prevent with this law. I want to know why religious symbols need to be outlawed. What is Quebec's reasoning. I have no idea what it is you think will happen. It appears as though you have some paranoia about Muslims taking over the country, which is obviously ludicrous. But I'm not sure if that's what you mean because you won't articulate your position, no matter how many times I ask.

[cybercoma]

If burqas are religious garments, are the black suits and white shirts worn by Hassidic Jewish men relgious garments, too?

What about the JW uniform? What about Mormon magic underwear? What about Pentecostal Christian women with uncut hair and long skirts?

[The_Squid]

Turn Canada into a theocracy?

A little hard to believe when Canada is actually becoming LESS religious overall... It's really paranoid rubbish.

[g_bambino]

What about the JW uniform? What about Mormon magic underwear? What about Pentecostal Christian women with uncut hair and long skirts?

Indeed. What defines a religious garment or ornament?

[DogOnPorch]

How can I be misrepresenting you when all I'm doing is trying to get you to clarify your comment, "not yet." I just want to know what you think will happen. Your only reply has been an equally vague, "ask France" and now you're saying I'm misrepresenting you. All of this coming from my initial post asking anyone to explain what social harm they're trying to prevent with this law. I want to know why religious symbols need to be outlawed. What is Quebec's reasoning. I have no idea what it is you think will happen. It appears as though you have some paranoia about Muslims taking over the country, which is obviously ludicrous. But I'm not sure if that's what you mean because you won't articulate your position, no matter how many times I ask.

Islam will eventually take over liberal democracies like Canada because we'll just let it. It will be well within the law and nobody will do anything about it. It's pretty simple. Islam is a growing religion. Not a shrinking one. As far as paranoia goes, it even states in the Quran that Islam WILL takeover...and the non-believers can stuff it (9:33, 61:9, etc). Don't you believe what it says? It's the very word of God.

Will Islam become dominant in Canada in YOUR lifetime? Unlikely. But, it will. As an ideology it's playing to win...not to share. Few modern ideologies have a similar global mandate.

[roy baty]

Islam will eventually take over liberal democracies like Canada because we'll just let it. It will be well within the law and nobody will do anything about it. It's pretty simple. Islam is a growing religion. Not a shrinking one. As far as paranoia goes, it even states in the Quran that Islam WILL takeover...and the non-believers can stuff it (9:33, 61:9, etc). Don't you believe what it says? It's the very word of God.

Will Islam become dominant in Canada in YOUR lifetime? Unlikely. But, it will. As an ideology it's playing to win...not to share. Few modern ideologies have a similar global mandate.

I have to agree with you on this. Within a generation or 2, if we allow it, some if not many of our laws and will contain some form of Sharia law. For those who believe in the Christian Bible, it speaks about the future for Christian nations: Deuteronomy 28:43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower". Alien in this case I believe are immigrants of another religion/theology.

I just think what Quebec is doing is the ultimate in hypocrisy in this case regardless if I agree with it or not.

Edited August 24, 2013 by roy baty

[Guest American Woman]

A little hard to believe when Canada is actually becoming LESS religious overall... It's really paranoid rubbish.

Do you think that's true of all religions in Canada? Do you think, for example, Muslims moving to Canada from Islamic nations are "less religious" once they move to Canada?

[dre]

Islam will eventually take over liberal democracies like Canada because we'll just let it.

Thats a nice paranoid fantasy, but the fastest growing belief set in Canada is atheism. The idea that abramic nutbars (christans, jews, muslims) are going to "take over" completely contradicts trends in the Canadian demographic.

Far from letting the abrahamites take over, they are being systemically disempowered and marginalized. In 50 years if you even admit to believing in any of these fantasies you will be a complete and total laughing stock.

[dre]

Do you think that's true of all religions in Canada? Do you think, for example, Muslims moving to Canada from Islamic nations are "less religious" once they move to Canada?

Absolutely, and if they dont their children and their children most certainly do. Religion is struggling to survive in the industrialized world for exactly this reason. Educated an affluent people are much less likely to believe in these kinds of myths. They start focusing their thoughts on having a nice big house, a few nice cars, and buying their girlfriends fake tits.

[dre]

I have to agree with you on this. Within a generation or 2, if we allow it, some if not many of our laws and will contain some form of Sharia law.

BS. If the current trend continues in two generations, religions of all types will have less influence on our society than ever before in human history.

The abrahamites are in big trouble. A couple of hundred years ago they were a dominant civil authority... in another hundred years they will be a small group of marginalized dorks that everyone laughs at... much like the KKK is America today.