Verizon vs Canadian Wireless

[PIK]

I am so happing I am not into cell phones and all those other devises, one huge scam.

[Boges]

I am so happing I am not into cell phones and all those other devises, one huge scam.

Mobile devices are the future of computing. People don't often use cells for phone calls anymore.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Boges

[Boges]

The Big 3 are doing a major media push today saying allowing Verizon into Canada will cost Canadian jobs.

[Topaz]

The problem with the high cell phone bill was ALL the long distance calls were being charged from the US and they didn't find out about until on of the many operators they were talking too, let it slip why their bill was so high. What makes my relative so angry is they talked to a worker(operator) about problems and they reassure them everything is okay, until another bill comes in high again. Anyway, they drop Rogers and went to Virgin.

[guyser]

Topaz, this is in reference to what? Cuz it sure as heck has nothing to do with this thread.

If it does, your relative aint none too bright !

[cybercoma]

Perhaps they would. But imagine how great it would be for the consumer.

It won't be great. Verizon will price its products right in line with the Rog-ell-us conglomerate. People are fooling themselves if they think this will benefit the consumers in any way at all. There's simply not enough competitors. Four companies to choose from is marginally better than 3 at best. Verizon is likely looking at how ridiculously profitable it is to be in Canada and they want a piece of the pie. They're just going to charge what the others are charging and simply give people a 4th choice of the same BS we deal with now.

[cybercoma]

Mobile devices are the future of computing. People don't often use cells for phone calls anymore.

Few people I know actually have landlines any more. Due to the ludicrous pricing schemes, they also don't make phone calls any more since texting is in essence unlimited.

[Michael Hardner]

It won't be great. Verizon will price its products right in line with the Rog-ell-us conglomerate. People are fooling themselves if they think this will benefit the consumers in any way at all.

Your unbridled negativity makes no sense, and flies in the face of economic theory.

If Verizon wants to be in Canada then they want to be bigger, so they want to make a name for themselves as being better than the other options. How much sense would it make for them to come in as a small player and establish them as no better than the others ?

[Icebound]

The Cellular operators in Canada seem to spend a lot of time on advertising and politics and lawyers and accountants and new ways to take our money....

....and very little of it on solving the technical problems that actually result in better service.

Somebody in this thread mentioned the inexpense of pay-as-you-go...., and somebody else mentioned big carriers piggy-backed on the locals.

This very minute, there is a major city in Ontario of 100,000 plus population... where the following happens:

I stand in the middle of the city with two cell phones, bought from and activitated by the same major carrier. Both are valid and paid up and have sufficient signal strength connectivity.

One works, one does not.... For the one that does not, there is no option that you can buy to add on to MAKE it work.

The difference??.... one is a pay-as-you-go (prepaid).

And because of the ridiculous patchwork of infrastructure and carriers and plans, it turns out that this is one place where the major carrier IS piggy-backing on the smaller local carrier...And somehow, the major carrier's handling of prepaid pay-as-you-go is not compatible with the local infrastrucure. Nor is it likely to be, anytime soon.

As an added insult, when you try to use the pay-as-you-go, you are told that "your service is temporarily interrupted"... and to please dial the support number... When you dial the support number... you guessed it.... you are told that "your service is temporarily interrrupted"... and to please dial the support number.

Welcome to the 21st century.

...

Edited August 2, 2013 by Icebound

[cybercoma]

Your unbridled negativity makes no sense, and flies in the face of economic theory.

If Verizon wants to be in Canada then they want to be bigger, so they want to make a name for themselves as being better than the other options. How much sense would it make for them to come in as a small player and establish them as no better than the others ?

They won't come in as a small player. They'll be big. They'll be everywhere. And they'll be charging the same as everyone else and be happy to get a piece of the action.

[Michael Hardner]

Cyber - but that's just a dumb strategy. People picked the small carrier because of price and service. If they don't compete, they will go nowhere.

[Boges]

Cyber - but that's just a dumb strategy. People picked the small carrier because of price and service. If they don't compete, they will go nowhere.

Look at Target's pricing strategy.

[cybercoma]

Cyber - but that's just a dumb strategy. People picked the small carrier because of price and service. If they don't compete, they will go nowhere.

They won't go nowhere because they're simply another alternative. They'll go somewhere based on brand recognition alone and as an alternative to the other big national carriers that people are fed up with. The price for cell phone plans is almost identical between Bell, Telus, and Rogers. They're not going nowhere. They're quite content not competing. Assuming a situation with equal market share (which isn't the case), they each get roughly 1/3 of the pie (not including smaller carriers, which they own anyway). They don't want Verizon coast-to-coast because that will mean getting 1/4 of the pie instead. People can't just drop their plans and switch anyway because there are fees associated with changing carriers in the middle of a contract. So there's only so many customers you can incentivize over to your brand in this industry anyway. You may not think this will be the case, but I'm willing to put money on it that Verizon--should they be granted entry into Canada and are a national carrier (rather than having small holdings in major cities)--will price their product right in line with the other companies. I just don't think that they can make up the shortfall in revenue with more customers by pricing it lower.

Believe me. I hope that I'm dead wrong about this, but I'm cynical. I just went to Telus's website to price an upgrade to my phone, since I have 2 years left on a 3 year contract and the new contracts are 2 years. So why not upgrade? I'll tell you why, the price for a plan is about $10/month more than I'm paying now. They've changed their plans. So I checked the other carriers and they're all right in line with Telus. Convenient that they've all raised their prices at the same time by roughly the same amount. Meanwhile, a smaller carrier in Toronto (I can't remember their name from the article I was reading) has gone to 2-year terms and kept their prices the same. Strange that they can do it, but the multimillion dollar companies can't. If there was true competition between the major national carriers, don't you think one of them would have kept their prices the same to encourage customers to choose them? It's only $5-10/month per customer difference.

Edited August 13, 2013 by cybercoma

[Bonam]

In the US, Verizon is the most expensive of the four major cell companies (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile). Verizon prices their plans the highest because they offer the largest network with the most reliable coverage and the highest 4G speeds in most areas. This has been a cornerstone of their strategy for some years. I expect that if they were to enter Canada, they would follow the same philosophy, investing in infrastructure to outperform the other carriers and charging premium prices for their service.

You'd think that in 3 pages of discussing what a company will do when entering a new market, someone might have looked up what their current behavior is in the markets in which they are already present. Nah, that woulda been too logical.

[Boges]

You'd think that in 3 pages of discussing what a company will do when entering a new market, someone might have looked up what their current behavior is in the markets in which they are already present. Nah, that woulda been too logical.

Well that's not really the issue, thanks for the info though. No different than how Bell and Rogers works here in Canada. But people here bitch about choice and competition. Truth is, you can get low cost cell coverage very easily in Canada but the network is Kaka, which is why people stick with the Big 3.

Another issue is the cycle of contracts where, when you need a new phone, if you don't want to pay the full freight, you have to sign up for another contract. Now apparently the CRTC wants to cap contracts at 2 years. This will likely raise the price of getting a phone from your carrier.

That being said these phones aren't really meant to last for more than 2 years unless you don't care about having good tech and just need a device to make calls.

[cybercoma]

Also, the same thing was thought about Virgin when they entered Canada. Virgin was supposed to help reduce prices. Someone posted a graphic comparing pricing between all the companies. Tell me there's no collusion here.

Let me guess, the market is just that efficient?

[Wilber]

Also, the same thing was thought about Virgin when they entered Canada. Virgin was supposed to help reduce prices. Someone posted a graphic comparing pricing between all the companies. Tell me there's no collusion here.

Let me guess, the market is just that efficient?

Considering rates on other parts of the world, I think a more apt term would be. The market is just that inefficient.

One thing for sure, next time I'm going to pay up front and get an unlocked phone. No more plans for me and I'll keep jumping to the best deal being offered. It will probably be the same old, same old but if Verizon does come in, I hope they will have some sort of deal on pay as you go sims that offer decent rates in the US.

[sharkman]

Your unbridled negativity makes no sense, and flies in the face of economic theory.

If Verizon wants to be in Canada then they want to be bigger, so they want to make a name for themselves as being better than the other options. How much sense would it make for them to come in as a small player and establish them as no better than the others ?

If they want to establish market share they are going to have to attract customers. Simply hanging out a shingle won't do it, they'll obviously have to offer deals and incentives to take customers away from the big 3. And in response, the big 3 will offer deals to any current customer that phones up and says that Verizon is offering a better deal. Then a year or more down the road Verizon's introductory offers will end and we'll see what happens.

Personally I don't mind that the big 3 are getting their panties in a wad over this because they are lying to the public about the situation. They whine about a level playing field when they own 90% of the market with cartel like control. Which is why they aren't allowed to buy up the small players when Verizon, with 0 market share will be allowed to. They whine about losing jobs when they have call centers off shore. And if they have to lay off some people, chances are Verizon will be hiring some. They whine that Verizon will be given access to the grid/system that took 25 years to build, not telling us that Verizon will of course have to pay to use it.

[dre]

Cyber - but that's just a dumb strategy. People picked the small carrier because of price and service. If they don't compete, they will go nowhere.

I dunno... Maybe they just see how badly we let telecom companies arse-rape us, and just want to come on up (lube in hand) and join the others.

There IS a carrier that tried to offer a different service up here... The same arab company responsible for hundreds of millions of ultra low cost cell phones in Africa. He gave up because both our government and telecom providers are a joke... which is the real reason we have the worst and most expensive service in the industrialized world.

[Boges]

I guess Verizon thought better of coming to a country where its future competitors band together and start an advertising campaign to misinform their potential future market of the "evils" of allowing an American company into the Canadian Telecom business.

They'll just go buy Vodophone instead.

Bleeping Canada!

Edited September 3, 2013 by Boges

[sharkman]

No doubt! Okay big three, you can stop the multi million dollar propaganda campaign! Time to recoup your expenditures with price increases across the cartel.

[cybercoma]

I wonder how much money they milked out of Canada's Big 3 to stay out.

[sharkman]

Any evidence of this?

[cybercoma]

Of course not. But it wouldn't surprise me.

Edited September 3, 2013 by cybercoma

[sharkman]

Well I suppose anything is possible.