Edward Snowden

[WWWTT]

I find it hard to believe that some people in the US think that US/China relations will weaken because China didn't hand over Snowden when they requested.

Hong Kong's justice secretary, Rimsky Yuen, explained on Tuesday that there had been discrepancies in the documentation filed by US authorities.

He said Hong Kong immigration records listed Snowden's middle name as Joseph, but the US government used the name James in some documents.

Yuen said US authorities had also not provided his passport number.

The decision to let Snowden leave angered the White House, which said it damaged US-Chinese relations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/26/edward-snowden-name-wrong-hong-kong

WWWTT

[Bryan]

There could be a good reason why Snowden wasn't on that flight to Cuba, and it could very well be that Cuba doesn't want him. It would certainly set back relations between the U.S., and Cuba, and after stating in 2006 that it wouldn't accept any more U.S. fugitives, including political, Cuba may not think giving him shelter is worth the set-back in U.S.-Cuba relations that would surely result from such an move.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/25/why-cuba-might-not-be-safe-for-snowden/

It's hard to ever know what Cuba's motivations are or what they'll do. For sure, Raul is far more interested in normalizing relations with the US than Fidel ever was, and he's already stated he intends to step down in 2018. Still, the "WE want normal relations, it's the US that's doing all of this" meme is a powerful political tool on the Island, and I doubt Raul, or even the more moderate leaders than may come after him, are in a hurry for that to end either.

One theory is that if Cuba really was offering Snowden asylum, that it was a trap. More than a few are speculating that Cuba would try to trade him for the remaining Cuban 5. As usual, no one is going on the record, so in the end nobody knows a damn thing.

[Guest American Woman]

It's hard to ever know what Cuba's motivations are or what they'll do.

Agreed. I'm not hearing anything from Cuba about this situation, though; Certainly there isn't a public acknowledgement that Snowden is welcome in Cuba.

For sure, Raul is far more interested in normalizing relations with the US than Fidel ever was, and he's already stated he intends to step down in 2018. Still, the "WE want normal relations, it's the US that's doing all of this" meme is a powerful political tool on the Island, and I doubt Raul, or even the more moderate leaders than may come after him, are in a hurry for that to end either.

Agreed. And as the article points out, "There are more and more Cubans economic migrants to the United States..." and I don't see them wanting that jeopardized.

One theory is that if Cuba really was offering Snowden asylum, that it was a trap. More than a few are speculating that Cuba would try to trade him for the remaining Cuban 5. As usual, no one is going on the record, so in the end nobody knows a damn thing.

Perhaps Snowden felt that it might be a trap, too, and that's why he didn't get on the plane.

It's like you said, though - no one is talking so ultimately no one knows what's going on. I doubt if Snowden wants to be in limbo in Russia for any length of time, and I'm guessing Russia isn't crazy about that prospect either, so it'll be interesting to see what happens next. Perhaps no country is eager to take him in.

Edited June 30, 2013 by American Woman

[jacee]

Germanys Federal Prosecutors office said it was preparing to bring charges against British and US intelligence today amid fresh allegations that the services spied far more extensively than thought on German phone and internet traffic and bugged European Union offices in America.

...

There was also widespread and mounting anger at official European Union level yesterday following disclosures that the NSA had spied on EU computer networks at its offices in New York and Washington and that it had also bugged the premises. Martin Schulz, head of the European Parliament, demanded full clarification from the US and said that if the disclosures proved true they would have a severe impact on US-EU ties.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-ready-to-charge-uk-and-us-intelligence-over-alleged-bugging-operations-8680249.html

Or maybe Europe will take Snowden in.

[Guest American Woman]

Or maybe Europe will take Snowden in.

I didn't see any offers coming from the outraged Germany.

[jacee]

I didn't see any offers coming from the outraged Germany.

Yet.

[Signals.Cpl]

Yet.

What are they waiting for?

[Guest American Woman]

Yet.

I'm with Signals.Cpl here:

What are they waiting for?

They've certainly wasted no time with their Big Talk of charges. You'd think they'd have the welcome mat out. Yet not a word of welcome. Why do you think that is?

[WWWTT]

Germanys Federal Prosecutors office said it was preparing to bring charges against British and US intelligence today amid fresh allegations that the services spied far more extensively than thought on German phone and internet traffic and bugged European Union offices in America.

...

There was also widespread and mounting anger at official European Union level yesterday following disclosures that the NSA had spied on EU computer networks at its offices in New York and Washington and that it had also bugged the premises. Martin Schulz, head of the European Parliament, demanded full clarification from the US and said that if the disclosures proved true they would have a severe impact on US-EU ties.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-ready-to-charge-uk-and-us-intelligence-over-alleged-bugging-operations-8680249.html

Or maybe Europe will take Snowden in.

Good dig here Jacee!

Here's another link that I found

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/06/30/us-eu-spying-german-reaction.html

Looks like the US will start toning down their big scary "give us Snowden or our diplomatic relations may suffer" broken record speal.

This story is really about the US spying habits,not a whistle blower.

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

This story is really about the US spying habits,not a whistle blower.

Meh...the U.S. (and U.K.) will keep on spying anyway, even if they say they won't. And there is little Germany or the E.U. can do about it.

What do you think "TOTAL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE" means ?

[Guest American Woman]

Meh...the U.S. (and U.K.) will keep on spying anyway, even if they say they won't.

And Germany will, too; and Germany will also go on benefiting from the U.K.'s and U.S.'s spying.

Germany also profits from US, British spying

Edited July 1, 2013 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

And Germany, too, as Germany will go on benefiting from it.

Germany also profits from US, British spying

Of course....all of this "outrage" is beginning to strain credulity. There is no reason to be so naive given readily available information.

[Guest American Woman]

Of course....all of this "outrage" is beginning to strain credulity. There is no reason to be so naive given readily available information.

Who does Germany think it's fooling? Well, there are those who are naive and those who choose to be fooled, but for the most part, it just makes them look ridiculous.

[jacee]

The newspaper said that one document it had obtained listed 38 embassies and diplomatic missions in Washington and New York, describing them as targets. It detailed a broad range of spying methods used against one, including bugs implanted in electronic communications gear and the collection of transmissions using specialized antennas.

The list of targets included the European Unions missions and the French, Italian and Greek Embassies, as well as those of several other American allies, including India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey, The Guardian reported.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/world/europe/europeans-voice-anger-over-reports-of-spying-by-us-on-its-allies.html

Not Canada?

Edited July 1, 2013 by jacee

[Signals.Cpl]

The newspaper said that one document it had obtained listed 38 embassies and diplomatic missions in Washington and New York, describing them as targets. It detailed a broad range of spying methods used against one, including bugs implanted in electronic communications gear and the collection of transmissions using specialized antennas.

The list of targets included the European Unions missions and the French, Italian and Greek Embassies, as well as those of several other American allies, including India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey, The Guardian reported.

Not Canada?

And you think those embassies are not in anyway conducting intelligence gathering operations wether they are aimed at the US or a third party on US soil?

[jacee]

And you think those embassies are not in anyway conducting intelligence gathering operations wether they are aimed at the US or a third party on US soil?

I think we're about to find out.

That's the beauty of what Snowden did.

Now we know.

[Signals.Cpl]

I think we're about to find out.

That's the beauty of what Snowden did.

Now we know.

How do Snowden's actions tell us about the intelligence gathering activities of those embassies in question?

[jacee]

How do Snowden's actions tell us about the intelligence gathering activities of those embassies in question?

Well the words are flying back and forth now, so we just wait to see what shakes out.

[Signals.Cpl]

Well the words are flying back and forth now, so we just wait to see what shakes out.

You think that those nations will admit to spying on the US or on third party nations while on US soil? Or do you think the US will decide to spill the beans on who is spying on who?

[jacee]

You think that those nations will admit to spying on the US or on third party nations while on US soil? Or do you think the US will decide to spill the beans on who is spying on who?

I think it will be interesting.

Edited July 1, 2013 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

I think we're about to find out.

That's the beauty of what Snowden did.

Now we know.

We already knew.....Spying 101.

[Signals.Cpl]

I think it will be interesting.

No it would not be interesting, we found out with our little spy that just because no one says it out loud does not mean it is not happening. Also just to point out, just because he had a security clearance does not mean he had access to the intel gathered if any on those embassies which means that either the US has to leak the intelligence or the nations in question have to and the answer to that is a resounding on both.

[jacee]

No it would not be interesting, we found out with our little spy that just because no one says it out loud does not mean it is not happening. Also just to point out, just because he had a security clearance does not mean he had access to the intel gathered if any on those embassies which means that either the US has to leak the intelligence or the nations in question have to and the answer to that is a resounding on both.

Having difficulty understanding some of your post. Does this clarify?

. Der Spiegel said information about the spying appeared in documents obtained by Edward J. Snowden, the former American intelligence contractor, and seen in part by the magazine.

Edited July 1, 2013 by jacee

[Guest American Woman]

I think we're about to find out.

That's the beauty of what Snowden did.

Now we know.

Some of us always did know, while some who now know apparently believe only the U.K. and the U.S. engage in such activity because of Snowden's 'revelations.'

[Scotty]

I find it hard to believe that some people in the US think that US/China relations will weaken because China didn't hand over Snowden when they requested.

Hong Kong's justice secretary, Rimsky Yuen, explained on Tuesday that there had been discrepancies in the documentation filed by US authorities.

He said Hong Kong immigration records listed Snowden's middle name as Joseph, but the US government used the name James in some documents.

Yuen said US authorities had also not provided his passport number.

You seem to forget that there is no rule of law in China. Any more than there is in Russia. The idea that either government would be deterred from doing anything they wanted to do because of insufficient paperwork or legal technicalities is hilarious. If China had wanted to send Snowden to the US they'd have simply scooped him up and put him on a plane.