Edward Snowden

[kimmy]

Since President Obama has responded to the leaks by taking steps to reform the FISA process and make the NSA accountable, he clearly thinks it was important.

-k

[Guest American Woman]

Since President Obama has responded to the leaks by taking steps to reform the FISA process and make the NSA accountable, he clearly thinks it was important.

As shocking as this may be, what "Obama thinks" really doesn't determine what I think. Furthermore, as I've said repeatedly now, I don't agree with how Snowden leaked the information - and then fled to China and Russia with sensitive information.

Edited to add: Are you saying that Obama wouldn't have found it important if Snowden had disclosed it legally?

Edited August 11, 2013 by American Woman

[dre]

As shocking as this may be, what "Obama thinks" really doesn't determine what I think. Furthermore, as I've said repeatedly now, I don't agree with how Snowden leaked the information - and then fled to China and Russia with sensitive information.

But you have presented no other credible course of action he could have taken.

[Guest American Woman]

But you have presented no other credible course of action he could have taken.

Yes, I have. Your opinion that it's not credible is just that - an opinion.

[dre]

Yes, I have. Your opinion that it's not credible is just that - an opinion.

No its not. Its backed up by every single signficant intelligence whistleblower in history from Ellsberg to Drake. You just keep ignoring this.

Can you name a single intelligence whistleblower in history that has had any success with your precious "legal route"?

[Guest American Woman]

No its not. Its backed up by every single signficant intelligence whistleblower in history from Ellsberg to Drake. You just keep ignoring this.

You keep ignoring what I've had to say, but since you're so into what former whistleblowers have to say, here's a different take on it:

A former National Security Agency (NSA) official who blew the whistle on extensive electronic surveillance programs in 2001 said Sunday that Edward Snowden, who recently leaked details about such programs to a British newspaper, may have crossed the line from whistleblower to traitor.

Snowden is transitioning from whistleblower to a traitor by leaking information on clandestine operations designed to gather intelligence on the Russian and Chinese governments, Binney said.

Thats not a public service, he insisted. http://freebeacon.com/fmr-nsa-whistleblower-calls-snowden-traitor/

As I've said before, Snowden and Wikileaks are not qualified to determine what is best for America, acting on their own this way, when sensitive material is involved.

I will repeat what Snowden's dad had to say: "I think WikiLeaks, if you've looked at past history, you know, their focus isn't necessarily the Constitution of the United States. It's simply to release as much information as possible."

Edited to add: Apparently Binney wasn't speaking from a prison cell.

Edited August 11, 2013 by American Woman

[Shady]

What does it matter if you "like" Snowden? He's not running for office.

-k

Exactly. And the turning on Snowden stuff has more to do with his actions after the leak, not with his leak itself.

[Guest Derek L]

What didnt you like about c-30?

The entire principle.

[Guest Derek L]

I'm glad you feel that way because I'm listening in on your phone calls and reading your texts and emails. Pretty boring so far, but it's a slow day anyway. I assume you don't object?

Not at all......but if I did, I'd just buy an encryption pad for my Iridium 9505.…

[ReeferMadness]

Obama the hypocrite

Before Edward Snowden, Americans were completely in the dark about Big Brother’s activities ostensibly done on their behalf. Thus, democratic deliberation was impossible. And here’s a question for you: how can Obama maintain a straight face while standing on a podium simultaneously promising reform of the NSA’s intrusive surveillance activities and lambasting the man whose courage was responsible for such reform in the first place?

[jacee]

Obama the hypocrite

Oh Ya.

[Shady]

Oh Ya.

Wow, that's quite an indictment of Obama. Don't be too critical.

[dre]

You keep ignoring what I've had to say, but since you're so into what former whistleblowers have to say, here's a different take on it:

A former National Security Agency (NSA) official who blew the whistle on extensive electronic surveillance programs in 2001 said Sunday that Edward Snowden, who recently leaked details about such programs to a British newspaper, may have crossed the line from whistleblower to traitor.

Snowden is transitioning from whistleblower to a traitor by leaking information on clandestine operations designed to gather intelligence on the Russian and Chinese governments, Binney said.

Thats not a public service, he insisted. http://freebeacon.com/fmr-nsa-whistleblower-calls-snowden-traitor/

As I've said before, Snowden and Wikileaks are not qualified to determine what is best for America, acting on their own this way, when sensitive material is involved.

I will repeat what Snowden's dad had to say: "I think WikiLeaks, if you've looked at past history, you know, their focus isn't necessarily the Constitution of the United States. It's simply to release as much information as possible."

Edited to add: Apparently Binney wasn't speaking from a prison cell.

I dont see any endorsement there of the "legal route" at all.

As for your other attempts to shift the conversation....

As I've said before, Snowden and Wikileaks are not qualified to determine what is best for America, acting on their own this way, when sensitive material is involved.

Right... the only people qualified are the ones doing the snooping!

I will repeat what Snowden's dad had to say: "I think WikiLeaks, if you've looked at past history, you know, their focus isn't necessarily the Constitution of the United States. It's simply to release as much information as possible."

Cool story but its just not true. Wikileaks not only redacted thousands of pages themselves, but they offered to let the US government vet releases for information that could put peoples lives at risk.

Edited August 11, 2013 by dre

[Guest American Woman]

I dont see any endorsement there of the "legal route" at all.

I have been critical of his running off with sensitive information, as I'm sure you're aware of - in spite of the fact that you've been ignoring it, which is why I pointed out that you've been ignoring what I've said. What you do see, however, is the reality that Binney was not speaking from a prison cell. What you see is Binney not endorsing the route Snowden took, as you claim all whistle blowers have done. The claim that Snowden had to escape the U.S. or spend the rest of eternity in prison is, as I keep pointing out, only some's opinion. It is not fact. Snowden did have other options than the route he took, whether you acknowledge it or not. But way to avoid responding to what Binney had to say. Doesn't change the facts, though.

As for your other attempts to shift the conversation....

Who's shifting the conversation?? You may like the conversation to focus only in one area, but I'm discussing the whole.

Right... the only people qualified are the ones doing the snooping!

I didn't say that at all, did i?

Cool story but its just not true.

Yeah, it is true. Snowden's dad did say that. It's not a "story." It's fact. Edited August 11, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Since President Obama has responded to the leaks by taking steps to reform the FISA process and make the NSA accountable, he clearly thinks it was important.

-k

To me it is more of a ' Oh crap, cat's out of the bag .. damge control'

[Topaz]

One question I have is, how do we really know that Snowden COULD let Russia if he wanted too? He could become a prisoner and no one would ever know.

[Shady]

One question I have is, how do we really know that Snowden COULD let Russia if he wanted too? He could become a prisoner and no one would ever know.

His lawyer would know whether that happened or not. However, Snowden's email and phone conversations will definitely be listed to and read during the duration of his stay there. One can be certain of that.

[Guest American Woman]

One question I have is, how do we really know that Snowden COULD let Russia if he wanted too? He could become a prisoner and no one would ever know.

Why wouldn't Russia let him leave? His being there is causing diplomatic problems. Obama cancelled a meeting with Putin that was scheduled next month, which Russia isn't happy about. I can't imagine why Russia would arrest him. He won't be getting any civil service/government jobs there, though; and Shady is likely right. Apparently Snowden can live with what the Russian government does, but not with what the U.S. government does.

[GostHacked]

And yet the thing is .. the USA lied about the spy program, but screw it, give Snowden AND Russia crap for it. Awesome transgressions.

[Shady]

Why wouldn't Russia let him leave? His being there is causing diplomatic problems. Obama cancelled a meeting with Putin that was scheduled next month, which Russia isn't happy about. I can't imagine why Russia would arrest him. He won't be getting any civil service/government jobs there, though; and Shady is likely right. Apparently Snowden can live with what the Russian government does, but not with what the U.S. government does.

Yes, apparently he doesn't mind living under a much more repressive government, with no civil liberties at all. That's why I don't mind the leak, but the leaker's a real d***** bag.

[Smallc]

Apparently Snowden can live with what the Russian government does, but not with what the U.S. government does.

Where do you see the evidence for that? He probably can't live with the idea of becoming a prisoner for exposing what is essentially an illegal government program. He hasn't in any way endorsed Russia and the way it does things.

[Shady]

And yet the thing is .. the USA lied about the spy program, but screw it, give Snowden AND Russia crap for it. Awesome transgressions.

I don't believe much from the government, but I certainly don't believe everything from Snowden either. Regardless, some of you are just going to have to live with the fact that there is no such thing as absolute privacy anymore. Unless you're in your home, with windows borded up, building models or something, there is no privacy. Contacting the outside world by phone or internet, will always leave some kind of digital trail. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can start to enjoy life again.

[Shady]

Where do you see the evidence for that? He probably can't live with the idea of becoming a prisoner for exposing what is essentially an illegal government program. He hasn't in any way endorsed Russia and the way it does things.

How is it illegal?

[Guest Derek L]

How is it illegal?

That's what I was just going to ask.......If it were illegal, surely we’d then be in the opening stages of another Watergate………How many think President Obama is going to be impeached over the “NSA scandal”?

Edited August 11, 2013 by Derek L

[Smallc]

How is it illegal?

It's pretty close to the line, wouldn't you agree? I don't see how someone like you can be defending this program.